duz_ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Someone in the AotI posted a comparison with the Heresy Lab assassins Rinion could you post a couple of pics? Im curious of the size comparison since they describe them as 32mm scale? Thanks Here you go! They're faily slim as a model but i feel like there large enough! Dont have an actual GW assassin for a direct comparison though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5265855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 hrm... makes me think they're a little too big... or are assassins supposed to be primaris sized? Aren't they humans? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5265886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I like the proportions. I think they have a true scale look that will work with my Primaris. I’ll post my own comparisons soon as the Culexus and Vindicare arrive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5266054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Id have to check with my newer assassins The comp probably isnt that great because the FW Mk4 guys from my understanding are somewhat undersized They are somewhat super human so probably a bit bigger than normal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5266062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Yeah the MK4 boys are small, That's what makes up the bulk of my marines and why I'm making their bases a little taller. Deathwatch saw the marines start to scale up. I'm looking forward to the comp pics because I'm considering adding a vindicare to my list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5266144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 The Culexus will be the model I’d suspect to use most often with a true purpose. If the Vanguard Librarian is half of hat I hope, the Culexus will be a real force multiplier when taking on psychic or smite spam armies. I’d already had a Culexus conversion in the works but I like Heresy models are just a tad last over the top so I’m good with their line. When not using the Culexus, that’s still an 85 point hole in the list that needs filled. Rule of cool says Vindicare and hell yeah I bought that one too .... but as the hobbyist in me takes a back seat I’m pretty sure I’m going to make a second order and pick up the Heresy Eversor. I love the Vindicare and I’m sure there’s a case somewhere he’s the best option but “generally” speaking it’s an easy assassin to counter. After all he still needs line of sight and many characters buffs and auras work without los. In which case the Eversor would seem to be a better choice to fill that 85 pt hole in the army list. Nothing says loving like Logan living in the 40k ;) So yep. Second order in the pipe for an Eversor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5266186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Quixote Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Having finally had time to read the white dwarf I got yesterday, I'm leaning towards Vindicare and I'd feel dirty doing it . Bear in mind the concealed deployment option and enemy characters are running scared. I can't see the culexus helping me that much as the psykers I need to shut down are normally warlocks & farseers on jetbikes. With only a 7" move I can see him being easily avoided and he has to be within 18" of the casting enemy psyker to actually have any effect, protecting a unit completely is impossible unless you're camping in a corner. Against slower moving psykers though, there are...possibilities . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5266308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I’ll post a pic this week but the Heresy assassin models are very well proportioned so they are perfect with my Primaris models. I’m going to base coat them black but then use AP army green on the armor plates so the color scheme fits with the 20 Infiltrators and 10 Reivers I’ll end up adding to the army. Extremely excited about making the Infiltrators the midfield bulk of the army and Intercessors the backfield. Then surrounding them with Hellbmasters and SftS Aggressors as support units. I’m going to have to probably house the Xiphons if I want to use the Plasma-inceptors and Reivers in the opponent backfield but all infantry actually looks like it will end up a possibility if they come out with a character that can have a melee focus and use Gravis-jump armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5271036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Update to the unconventionnal strategies! I was playing a lot of Total War and this got me thinking looking at Roman tactics and strategies. Given the fact that nowhere on the board is safe, and given the fact that we're actually a pretty small size game (no '000s of boots on the ground), I had ANOTHER heretical thought! We don''t command an army made of multiple units, we command a single unit. Compared to games like Total War or company of heroes or even Dawn of War, we can't really avoid combat while in battle. So rather than thinking about unit or unit groups, I set myself to make a single unit with all the points available (1000 pts for this time), supported by some very niche auxiliaries. Bascially: - A blob of 36 Intercessors in 4 squads with 4 Power Fists (10 + 10 + 10 + 6), with Primaris Captain (CP'd to Chapter Master) and Primaris Lieutenant (about 820 pts) - 3 Plasma Inceptors (177) Blob was on frontline duty, here to take the pain and dish it out back. Deployed and maneuvered like a WHFB unit on a tray if you will. Inceptors were held back to be used as burst damage cavalry when and where needed. I URGE everybody to design and play armies in this fashion with Marines, with 80% of the points in a reroll Troops bubble and 20% in various very specialized support. I only had 1 turn of full blob efficiency before Admech snipers killed my Lieutenant and Captain, but it was massively efficient and fantastic. We played in a The Relic/Dawn of War scenario, I won a major victory even going 2nd. Death tally : - Marines : 26 Intercessors, Captain, Lieutenant, 3 Inceptors - Admech : 10 Rangers (incl 2 Snipers), 2 Armiger Warglaives (KILLED WITH BOLTGUNS GUYS! That's how good the blob is), 7 Infiltrators (melted in counter Deep Strike with the Inceptors), 11 wounds on an Onager that later got Repaired. Granted the scenario was advantageous, but even if the Admech had about 300pts remaining to my 170, no way he could win and easily secured the victory. For multiple objective games and kill points, I believe a list with Troops spam will still work if we manage to get the objectives clumped in tight formation. And find areas to funnel larger hordes. i was trying out Ultra CT for this specific battle, but Raven Guard would really have worked out similarily and probably even better! The Blob is love brothers, the Blob is life! I'm 100% convinced this can work on OG Marines, with less staying power than the Intercessors with 4 Tacticals, but a lot more punch and even narrower footprint on the table (so easier to hide). Equipping Power Fist, Plasma Cannons and Guns are going to provide a very strong source of grinding firepower, especially with full rerolls! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5274000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkyHamHam Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Were you using Storm of Fire as your WL trait? Or Adept of the Codex? Did you make use of Veteran Intercessors at all? I think I would have dropped the 6 man unit to put in Victrix Honor Guard (since Ultras) or a Company Vet squad to protect your reroll buff characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5274061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 Storm of Fire, for high weight of dice BuffCaptains, this is the best ! Victrix Guard could have helped, but the opponent got mega lucky with the Snipers and I underestimated their damage while I had ample cover opportunity. Out of 8 shots in 2 turns, the enemy got 4 mortal wounds and I passed 0 saves of 2d3 damage. Not even 4 Sanctic Halo saves (3+ invulnérable)... Not really a problem of the list but a problem of the player at this stage :P For Raven Guard specific Chapter tactics, I think this list can really work too! I’ll try a reverse of this list in the future, with a spread out Troops line converting the entire map, and half my points in Drop Troops to pounce at a moments notice. Basically at 1000 points : - Jump Pack Captain America (TH/SS) - 30 Intercessors - 6 Plasma Inceptors Completely different strategy, more Raven Guard this time: - Spread out the 30 Intercessors in 6 combat squads all over the map, more on the flanks - Spread our the objectives towards the event flanks - Deploy Captain + Intercessors late or in Deep Strike, only on flanks and play the edges of the board with minimal exposure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5274226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 GreyCrow....you just gave me a brilliant conversion idea. I seem to recall seeing an empty fist on one of the Primaris sprues. I think I'm going to convert a Reiver into Captain America using it and a shield. On the table the empty hand will count as a power fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5280517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Similar thoughts in the 4-6 Troop choices (depending on 5 or 10 man squads) but pretty sure I’m going to use at least 10 Infiltrators with the 20 Intercessors. ... oh and Primaris Shrike 9 or Lias because .... theme ;) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5280895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Zomg, the Captain America idea is too good not to shamelessly copy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5284899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 As requested ... The Heresy Lab lass proportions compared to my old GamesDay Inquisitor model and the Primaris line. I used the Callidus as she has the more normal upright stance of the three Assassin's I purchased. She's a tad bigger than the Inquistor and noticeably a head smaller than the Intercessor ... well she would be if her head wasn't ripped off an Alien :) Given that she's wearing some sort of stealth armor her limbs are well proportion and obviously more human than the thick chested Astartes. The Vindicator and Eversor have similar proportions. Ms. McShooty is definitely going to perched on a rock outcropping of some sort. Don't want anyone whining about it's kneeling be some sort of "advantage". Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5291167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Having finally had time to read the white dwarf I got yesterday, I'm leaning towards Vindicare and I'd feel dirty doing it . Bear in mind the concealed deployment option and enemy characters are running scared. I can't see the culexus helping me that much as the psykers I need to shut down are normally warlocks & farseers on jetbikes. With only a 7" move I can see him being easily avoided and he has to be within 18" of the casting enemy psyker to actually have any effect, protecting a unit completely is impossible unless you're camping in a corner. Against slower moving psykers though, there are...possibilities . I'm doing a list at some point with 3 Eliminator squads and 3 Vindicares. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5292478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Thread necromancy ftw!!! Ok, here goes. Primaris Chaplain and a unit of Dakka Aggressors, SftS them both, Catechism of Fire on the Aggressors, and they shoot twice at the nearest enemy with +1 to wound. Turn 2, switch to Tactical Doctrine to add -1AP to all that shooting, and if anyone charges, switch to Litanies of Hatred to reroll for those Power Fists. If you prefer Firstborn, a Chaplain with a unit of Sternguard will also do nicely. Make that Chaplain a Hero of the Chapter, and give him the Storm of Fire WL Trait, for extra AP on 6 to wound! By the Throne, imagine if someone were dumb enough to try and Deep Strike within 12 inches and you had 2CP available to use Auspex Scan! Oh, did I "mistakenly" leave a gap in my deployment zone that you can deep strike into?! Oops... Remember, if they drop a character first, and you use Auspex Scan, they CANNOT place any other units to screen until the shooting attack is resolved! The only exception is a Tau Crisis Commander with 2 support drones, and split fire is a thing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5378886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Thread necromancy ftw!!! Ok, here goes. Primaris Chaplain and a unit of Dakka Aggressors, SftS them both, Catechism of Fire on the Aggressors, and they shoot twice at the nearest enemy with +1 to wound. Turn 2, switch to Tactical Doctrine to add -1AP to all that shooting, and if anyone charges, switch to Litanies of Hatred to reroll for those Power Fists. If you prefer Firstborn, a Chaplain with a unit of Sternguard will also do nicely. Make that Chaplain a Hero of the Chapter, and give him the Storm of Fire WL Trait, for extra AP on 6 to wound! By the Throne, imagine if someone were dumb enough to try and Deep Strike within 12 inches and you had 2CP available to use Auspex Scan! Oh, did I "mistakenly" leave a gap in my deployment zone that you can deep strike into?! Oops... Remember, if they drop a character first, and you use Auspex Scan, they CANNOT place any other units to screen until the shooting attack is resolved! The only exception is a Tau Crisis Commander with 2 support drones, and split fire is a thing! I'm not sure SffS is still a thing. I would assume not but who knows? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5378944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I'm not sure SffS is still a thing. I would assume not but who knows? We're going to have to wait for our supplement to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5378950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Why would you assume not ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Well, is Strike from the Shadows still a Stratagem in the new marine codex? If so, then it is still a thing. If not, then I guess we have to wait for our supplement to drop, and the new codex supersedes the precious codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Why would you assume not ? Because it is not in the current codex. Until the supplement comes out we can't really assume SftS will function the same way it does now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Okay fair enough. I guess I’m running under the strong assumption it or it’s close cousin will be there for some deployment sneakiness. It’s kind thing that makes us unique to other Chapters. We have been the mirror of the Alpha Legion for so long it’s hard to picture RG without something like this in our back pocket. That said it could be used as a way to push us more toward the Phonbos troops but that’s open to any Codex and would make us extremely vanilla if they didn’t layer something on top of that because the CT is looking like it has more hard counters more I look at things developing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I think we will get some deployment based stratagems but I dont think they will work like the old or post FAQ SftS. If we do in fact get one or both of those versions of SftS back then assault centurions are going to be terrific. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just a thought. Can you master craft boltstorm gauntlets for a sergeant? And if so does that count for both the shooting and melee damage ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351151-axioms-of-victory-unconventional-rg-strategies/page/5/#findComment-5379751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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