helterskelter Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Afternoon folks, now before we start, I want to take sternguard in a list because I have always wanted to do an en masse veteran weapon squad for 40k ever since bolter drill became known to me, never got round to it until now and for me it's part a fluff choice in my head. So questions how do you arm yours? What do you find fun? If given the choice: 8 storm bolters and 2 heavy bolters 8 combi flamers and 2 heavy flamers Or other variations of a theme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 For Sternguards I'd go with their Special Issue boltgun, period. If you give them other weapons they lose the only thing that makes them Sternguard and you could just as well go with Devastators or Company Veterans and such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Yeah, sfPanzer is right. If you’re going massed storm bolters you can take company veterans with storm bolters for cheaper than the sternguard. Plus the company vets have an extra attack and can take a free chainsword so they’re just objectively better for storm bolters. If you’re not using the special issue bolters then there isn’t much point taking them. However there’s nothing stopping you using the sternguard models as company veterans, that’s what I do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 I genuinely skipped over company vets. Didn't realise they existed to be perfectly honest, haven't done marines in so long and using battlescribe to test the water. Lo and behold there they are. Sternguard you're just paying for special issue bolters and that's it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Don't count out the special issue boltguns - they're surprisingly capable with their special stratagem. The extra range gives you more space to work with while still being in rapid fire range. Their specialized stratagem gives them +1 to their wound roll, so if you make sure to have a Captain or Chapter Master near them for the hit re-rolls, and give him the Storm of Fire Warlord Trait alongside a Lieutenant, I think you'll find a lot of synergy. They would be firing 20 shots, re-rolling 1s (or misses if it's the CM), wounding everything less than T8 on a 3/4+, re-rolling 1s to wound, and every 5 or 6 to wound is resolved at AP-3. Just for added fun, maybe make them Imperial Fists to ignore the cover their target is hiding in while you gain the potential for extra shots with the Bolter Drill stratagem. Storm bolters cost the same, and will probably be more useful against horde armies with low saves, whereas the special issue bolters has great range. Your ideas seemed to follow an anti-horde theme, though - is that your intent? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluejayJunior Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 There is a stratagem for Sternguard that gives them +1 to wound when shooting with their Special Issue Boltguns. That is the reason for using the Sternguard most of the time. And since it doesn't work on their other weapons, there isn't a big reason to take them. Unless you just want to use the options you prefer and don't care about the strat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Basically, the bolters are 30" with ap-2 so they're damn good plus there's a 1cp strat to boost wound rolls by one. They can take heavy falmers and other special/heavy weapons so can do 5 man las/plas from 4th ed but it's probably not worth it tbh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I genuinely skipped over company vets. Didn't realise they existed to be perfectly honest, haven't done marines in so long and using battlescribe to test the water. Lo and behold there they are. Sternguard you're just paying for special issue bolters and that's it? Well, Sternguard can take other options but their main draw is the Special Issue Bolter which has the improved range and AP, as well as the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem (which is exclusively for SIBs). By giving up the SIBs you're basically getting worse Company Veterans (who can take the same weapons besides the Heavy weapons, plus they can take melee weapons too). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 They are basically just a unit of Tactical Marines++. They're Bolter Marines with super Bolter, +1A and can take any amount of special/heavy weapons instead of just 1 per 5. Unfortunately they aren't Troops and the Elite section is more than just full for Marines so they often don't have a place in Marine lists despite being decent. Edit: Not saying they should be Troops. They are obviously Veterans. They are just lacking something to take them over other Elite choices most of the time and their similarity to Tactical Marines is striking. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Sternguard can be something fearsome if you want to go full combo. Take 10, have a captain and lieutenant chaprone the squad with storm of fire on the warlord of your choice between them while a rhino primaris huehuehue around in the back, just in range to be able to reach them. I personally use a land raider excelsior for delivery because I thought if I wanted to go in on this, I may as well go full ham, bread and butter. Put a hint of lemon on that paint scheme Put it all together and what do you get? 20 shots hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1 and getting extra attacks on 5+ Wounding anything T7 or less on 4+, re-rolling 1s and making your weapon AP3 on 5+ I let that loose on a riptide my friend was using and if it wasn't for the shield nova-charge I would of done it in or massively crippled it with boltgun fire! If you want sternguard, you take them for their stratagem and SIBs (Special Issue Boltguns). Remember, those things are 30" with Ap2. Unlike prior editions this is a massive buff as it is like having kraken rounds with vengeance AP and on top of that the extra range means their rapid fire range is now 15" instead of 12". You want storm bolters, you go company vets but even then, while not just take plasma on those guys and leave anti-infantry to devastators with heavy boltguns. Hey, even go full cheese on that by applying some lemon and cheese with multi-hellfire in one round (talking on average 3D3 mortal wounds). You want to know how that works, I can PM that fun combo to you. Then again, I experimented alot with the rhino primaris and land raider excelisor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 Thanks for the replies guys has given me much to consider Storm bolters cost the same, and will probably be more useful against horde armies with low saves, whereas the special issue bolters has great range. Your ideas seemed to follow an anti-horde theme, though - is that your intent? My intent is more Eldar/Harlequins. But horde dispersal is also a factor. Thought process is the more dice I get to throw the greater the liklehood of failed saves when the dancing gits live for their invulnerable Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Thanks for the replies guys has given me much to consider Storm bolters cost the same, and will probably be more useful against horde armies with low saves, whereas the special issue bolters has great range. Your ideas seemed to follow an anti-horde theme, though - is that your intent? My intent is more Eldar/Harlequins. But horde dispersal is also a factor. Thought process is the more dice I get to throw the greater the liklehood of failed saves when the dancing gits live for their invulnerable In that case, Sternguard probably aren't the most efficient pick for this role, and by picking up the storm bolters you drop the best part of Sternguard in the first place. Sounds like you're more likely to want Company Veterans if you don't intend to use the more powerful bolter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5190862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 If you're going to go with Sternguard, 8 Bolters is about the minimum size to get reasonable firepower. After that I'd add 2 Heavy Flamers for killing ability. 2D6 S5 hits at -1AP is pretty solid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Only the special issue boltgun. Keep them cheap. It's factored into their cost and they aren't survivable enough to warrant upgrades. Combi plasmas if playing power levels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Only the special issue boltgun. Keep them cheap. It's factored into their cost and they aren't survivable enough to warrant upgrades. Combi plasmas if playing power levels. It actually isn't anymore - it's separated in 8th edition (unlike previous editions) at 2 points a pop. Unlike the past, they aren't paying for the buffed weapon in their baseline price any longer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Yeah good point actually. Still, keep them cheap! Lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Heavy flamers are amazing in pairs or greater. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Heavy flamers are amazing in pairs or greater. Agreed. Just not as main weapon for a squad without particularly great mobility. So mainly SIBs + two Heavy Flamer is a great suggestion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Heavy flamers are amazing in pairs or greater. Agreed. Just not as main weapon for a squad without particularly great mobility. So mainly SIBs + two Heavy Flamer is a great suggestion. This is the kind of compromise I can get behind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Rhinos are good for Sternguard though expensive and you need some saturation to survive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 If Drop Pods were just reasonably priced at like 20-30 points *sigh* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 Rhinos are good for Sternguard though expensive and you need some saturation to survive. Dropping 5 plasma inceptors behind/near something is going to be one of my go to's as well as having a few other bits and pieces to provide distractions and a bit of covering fire. I have a plan. About 17% of one but it's a plan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 If Drop Pods were just reasonably priced at like 20-30 points *sigh* Honestly, I feel Sternguard are truly the best use of drop pods. Sure, that's not saying much since they're pretty inefficient normally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 It’s ok to drop Special Issue Boltguns if you need to. If you have a Marines heavy meta, keep them as they are very cost efficient anti-MEQ fire support. Remember that they’ll act as a fire support squad to another tactical rather than a selection of Rambos. It’s also a decent back up, take all comers, solution if you have a varied meta. AP-2 is equally generous. Play them like a better Tactical Squad. If you have a horde heavy meta, either Combi-Flamers if you wanna play defensive, either Stormbolters if you wanna punch what’s further away. Aggressive vehicle heavy meta : combi meltas. We’re talking Knight-happy here. Their load out can be informed very effectively by the meta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5191809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 The special issue bolt gun is the best option to have on sternguard. Maybe throw in a special/combi weapon on a couple of guys, but the special issue bolt gun should be their main weapon. The extra range, good AP, and the masterful marksmanship stratagem makes them a pretty well rounded unit. If you want to load up completely with other weapons, company veterans can fill that role without loosing their perks like sternguard do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351176-how-do-you-equip-your-sternguard-veterans/#findComment-5192262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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