Gunline help

[garetheves]

Ok so my DG army is fairly well stocked these days and i love the versatility it brings. The one thing im lacking is a rearguard gunline. My regular opponent is  Deathwatch player and also has 2 Las/missile Ven Dreds deployed as far away as possible and they rip me to shreds even if i counter them with Drones and Flying DPs, im still a few turns away off getting close to him, and in those turns he is just churning wounds off me.

 

My next purchase is something to sit in the back field (like his dreds) to have something to get those early shots in while most other stuff is out of range. 

I do have 2 Hellbrutes (Las/Missile) but i rarely use them due to the lack of DG/Invul, they just die too damn quick even with DR.

 

What would people suggest?

Im tempted by 2 PBCs obviously, but to get the most out of the mortar and resilience of them ideally you want to hide them which renders the other weapon options a bit useless apart from anti-charging with the flamer.

Is it the Dedereo Dred from FW that can give off an Invul Aura? Could work well with the 2 Hellbrutes ive already got?

 

Any other options im overlooking?

 

Edit: from reading another thread, would a variety of Knight be an option? Dont think they can take DG keywords so would have to ally it in, but an option? Are there any purely shooty ones or worth keeping a CC weapon as a charge deterrant?

[1000 Sons]

Scorpius.

[garetheves]

Scorpius.

Had never even considered that. 217 points isnt too bad, fires twice with no LoS if it didnt move. 6D3 shots at S6, -2, 2 Damage is decent enough. Has some anti-charge with the combi bolter and half decent melee attacks. A lack of Invul and DR still concern me the same as with the Hellbrutes, but i guess this is mitigated somewhat by being able to hide it completely out of LoS so its safe Turn 1 regardless. 

Hmm tempting.

 

any other suggestions.

[happyslugger]

I like:

 

Double battle cannon renegade knights, Las n missile hellbrute I get mileage out of, but I'll run them with my leviathan/contemptor, so they aren't focused on. PBC is ok, but I often find the BS4 can hurt.

 

No experience of the deredeos but.....I'm building one currently.

[micahwc]

Scorpius are pretty evil as long as they can stay stationary. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

You might also want to ally in some Nurgle Havocs from, say, The Purge (who started as a splinter of the Death Guard). Maybe a Sorcerer too, in order to get easy access to things like Warp Time and Prescience. A Nurgle Decimator with C-Beam Cannons or Butcher Cannons is also a nice option. Greater Blight Drone could work well if you can give it hit bonuses.

 

Finally, Heavy Blight Launcher Drones will work if you're rocking an Arch Contaminator build where they can get bonuses.

[garetheves]

I like:

 

Double battle cannon renegade knights, Las n missile hellbrute I get mileage out of, but I'll run them with my leviathan/contemptor, so they aren't focused on. PBC is ok, but I often find the BS4 can hurt.

 

No experience of the deredeos but.....I'm building one currently.

Levi can take 2 Butcher Canons right? It does have an invul as well so ticks that box.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

I like:

 

Double battle cannon renegade knights, Las n missile hellbrute I get mileage out of, but I'll run them with my leviathan/contemptor, so they aren't focused on. PBC is ok, but I often find the BS4 can hurt.

 

No experience of the deredeos but.....I'm building one currently.

Levi can take 2 Butcher Canons right? It does have an invul as well so ticks that box.

 

2 Bucher Cannon Arrays, per FAQ allowing it to "John Woo" any two ranged weapons. That adds up to Heavy 16 with no penalties for movement because the HELLBRUTE keyword gives it the Legion Trait. That outguns even some builds of the Deredeo.

 

On the other hand, the Deredeo can take the Hellfire Veil to give the rest of your backline a 5++, which helps with the durability on your existing Helbrutes.

[garetheves]

 

 

I like:

 

Double battle cannon renegade knights, Las n missile hellbrute I get mileage out of, but I'll run them with my leviathan/contemptor, so they aren't focused on. PBC is ok, but I often find the BS4 can hurt.

 

No experience of the deredeos but.....I'm building one currently.

Levi can take 2 Butcher Canons right? It does have an invul as well so ticks that box.

 

2 Bucher Cannon Arrays, per FAQ allowing it to "John Woo" any two ranged weapons. That adds up to Heavy 16 with no penalties for movement because the HELLBRUTE keyword gives it the Legion Trait. That outguns even some builds of the Deredeo.

 

On the other hand, the Deredeo can take the Hellfire Veil to give the rest of your backline a 5++, which helps with the durability on your existing Helbrutes.

 

And this is the bit that does appeal, i love Hellbrutes and i have 2 that ive spent a reasonable amount of time converting that never see the light of day because they lack that durability. a 5++ isnt the same as having DR as well as a save, but its better than nothing. What weapon combo best for Deredeo? Butcher canon and add a Greater Havoc launcher as well?

 

Also thoughts on Decimators? Soulburner isnt much of a backline weapon but damn it looks interesting, or theres the Butcher Canon x2 totally 8 shots, although not a Hellbrute so would take a penalty for moving and firing.

[happyslugger]

I have my leviathan run with double butcher, same as my hellforged contemptor. The deredeo will also have this load out (all magnetised).

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

I like:

 

Double battle cannon renegade knights, Las n missile hellbrute I get mileage out of, but I'll run them with my leviathan/contemptor, so they aren't focused on. PBC is ok, but I often find the BS4 can hurt.

 

No experience of the deredeos but.....I'm building one currently.

Levi can take 2 Butcher Canons right? It does have an invul as well so ticks that box.

 

2 Bucher Cannon Arrays, per FAQ allowing it to "John Woo" any two ranged weapons. That adds up to Heavy 16 with no penalties for movement because the HELLBRUTE keyword gives it the Legion Trait. That outguns even some builds of the Deredeo.

 

On the other hand, the Deredeo can take the Hellfire Veil to give the rest of your backline a 5++, which helps with the durability on your existing Helbrutes.

 

And this is the bit that does appeal, i love Hellbrutes and i have 2 that ive spent a reasonable amount of time converting that never see the light of day because they lack that durability. a 5++ isnt the same as having DR as well as a save, but its better than nothing. What weapon combo best for Deredeo? Butcher canon and add a Greater Havoc launcher as well?

 

Also thoughts on Decimators? Soulburner isnt much of a backline weapon but damn it looks interesting, or theres the Butcher Canon x2 totally 8 shots, although not a Hellbrute so would take a penalty for moving and firing.

 

The Deredeo can take the Greater Havoc OR the Hellfire Veil, per the FAQ. Not both. For the backline variant of the Decimator, I was thinking C-Beam cannons, not Soulburners or Butchers. Huge range, and are better on the Decimator because you can heal without having to be in CC and you're not trading a WS of 2+ to sit back and shoot.

[garetheves]

I have my leviathan run with double butcher, same as my hellforged contemptor. The deredeo will also have this load out (all magnetised).

I'm not sure the deredeo can take 2 butcher canons?

[happyslugger]

 

I have my leviathan run with double butcher, same as my hellforged contemptor. The deredeo will also have this load out (all magnetised).

I'm not sure the deredeo can take 2 butcher canons?

 

 

Just checked battlescribe and the deredeo comes standard with butcher cannon array (H8, S8, -1AP, 2 D).  

[garetheves]

Thanks for the input folks, heres my thoughts:

1. Deredeo - im deffinitely tempted by this, i love the idea of teaming it with my 2 Hellbrutes and spreading its 5++ to them for a slightly increased resilience (Which they greatly lack on their own) but for a total of 541 points, its quite an investment in any game. I suppose in smaller games the Deredeo on its own would be a decent enough option.

2. Scorpius/Sicaran type unit - these look very interested, the firing twice and no LoS from the scorpius and the Venator Sicarans weapon make them sound rather tasty, but they just lack the resilience of the Plague Burst Crawler (with its 3+, 5++, 5+++) with the PBC being cheaper than both of them as well, can almost get 2 PBC for the points of 1 of the other. 

3. PBC - Struggling to see past this at the moment. Yes the shooting is a D6 so could whiff every round, but points wise i could field 2 of them for any 1 of the other options. They are incredible tough and resilient, can hide out of LoS, take anti charge weapons or extra range anti-armour weapons. Just seems a great all round option. I honestly think if i went with this though my hellbrutes would never see the light of day apart from in really high points battles. 

 

Think im leaning more towards the Deredeo or the PBC (x2). Sell them to me people :)

[happyslugger]

I have one PBC and sometimes its MPV and at other times I wonder why I bothered with it :-)

 

I haven't tried my Deredeo yet as it is still being built.

 

I will throw another one that have and that is the hellforged contemptor, running double butcher cannon (2 x H4/s8/-1/2D) and havoc launcher (HD6/S5/0/1D) and starts with BS2.  It has a 5+ inv against shooting and 4+ melee.  Can walk up the board shooting behind a screen and when it degrades to 2nd profile it is BS3.  Plus it is an elite choice, so you could still field PBC or deredeo :-)  It is only 30 odd points more than the basic PBC also.

[garetheves]

I have one PBC and sometimes its MPV and at other times I wonder why I bothered with it :-)

 

I haven't tried my Deredeo yet as it is still being built.

 

I will throw another one that have and that is the hellforged contemptor, running double butcher cannon (2 x H4/s8/-1/2D) and havoc launcher (HD6/S5/0/1D) and starts with BS2.  It has a 5+ inv against shooting and 4+ melee.  Can walk up the board shooting behind a screen and when it degrades to 2nd profile it is BS3.  Plus it is an elite choice, so you could still field PBC or deredeo :-)  It is only 30 odd points more than the basic PBC also.

I hate choices lol. Thats interesting, plus with the legion traits theres no penalty for moving and firing. So yes doesnt have to be a stationary gunline.... 5++ is good, still no DR unfortuantely, and being out in the open would make it a Las target, but points are probably better than a Dedereo and more shooting potential...plus a better BS.....Damn just when i thought id narrowed it down lol

[happyslugger]

Buy them all, then you can pick and choose lol

[garetheves]

Buy them all, then you can pick and choose lol

 

Haha i wish

 

Out of interest where do you get the Butcher Canons for the contemptor? Had a quick look on FW site and can see the body and plenty of Contempor weapons but cant see that option. 

[happyslugger]

I just used the autocannon 

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Contemptor-Pattern-Autocannon

 

I thought they were more fitting than the assault cannon options and look more like the guns for the Leviathan and Deredeo.

[garetheves]

I just used the autocannon 

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Contemptor-Pattern-Autocannon

 

I thought they were more fitting than the assault cannon options and look more like the guns for the Leviathan and Deredeo.

 

Ahh wondered if that was the alternative option :)

[happyslugger]

Well it is my option lol

 

Others may choose a different one :-)

[MasterDeath]

Not sure if already mentioned: Renegade Armigers with Autocannons? Dread Profile, Invul and cheap.

[Tokugawa]

Not sure if already mentioned: Renegade Armigers with Autocannons? Dread Profile, Invul and cheap.

If your meta refuse FW index units, then they are #1 choice for a "shooty" chaos army.

[garetheves]

Not sure if already mentioned: Renegade Armigers with Autocannons? Dread Profile, Invul and cheap.

Hmm hadnt considered those either. Where can the rules be found? Just in the standard Knight index or is there a seperate one for chaos versions that im not aware of?

 

EDIT: Found them on Battlescribe, Still wondering if theres a book or PDF ive missed :)

[HeresyBeliever]

There is a PDF codex issued by GW for renegade knights 

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/ENG_Index_Renegade_Knights.pdf