Anti-Tank DW Veteran Squad

[Syward]

Greetings once again brothers & sisters!

 

I've been working on my Primaris Deathwatch list and I picked up a box of the Deathwatch Veterans (for the shoulders LOL) and now I have all these bits left over for the Veterans and the weapons that came in their kit and I'm thinking about actually using them in my list with a focus on Anti-Tank. I have several special weapons, combi-weapons & heavy weapons left over from old Tactical & Devastator Squads to equip the Veterans with.

 

I also have enough bits to make a 5x Terminator Squad. I have bits for 5x lighting claws, Storm Bolters, 1x Assault Cannon, Power FIsts, 2x Chain Fists, 2x Cyclone Missile Launchers and a Power Sword left over from another project.

 

Given the materials above, what would be the most flexible and efficient Anti-Tank squad that I could build?

 

Would it be better to make the Veterans into a Vanguard Squad and what would their load out be? (I think I have 5 jump packs lying around in a bits box). 

 

I was considering the following 7 man Veteran Squad:

 

• 1x Watch Sgt. w/Combi-Melta & Power Sword
• 4x Veterans w/Combi-Melta & Power Sword
• 2x Terminators w/Cyclone Missile & Storm Bolter & Power Sword

 

It's an expensive squad @ 378pts so I think I may have gone over board with them.

 

I was also considering a 5 man Terminator squad w/Lightning Claws & Storm Bolters @ 215pts, but have been told that Terminators are more effective in a Veteran Squad rather than a unit of their own.

 

I'd be replacing a 5x Intercessor + 4 Aggressor + 1 Incepter squad @ 298pts with the veteran squad.

[Lemondish]

A squad like that first one is a bit eclectic - it wants to simultaneously shoot from range with the cyclones and also get close up with the melta. 

 

Melta isn't in a very good spot efficiency wise today, but it can get the job done provided you can survive the trip. I would suggest cutting down a few of the meltas and including a couple storm shields to help them stay close. Consider a black shield, as well, since he gives the squad potentially 3 free inches of movement and some attacks in melee while being protected from reprisal in most cases where the HI triggers. HI is an underrated tool. 

 

I've used something like this as a base, often in a Razorback, but you can deploy how you choose...

• 1x Watch Sgt. w/Combi-Melta & Power Sword
• 1x Black Shield w/Combi-Melta & Power Sword
• 1x Veteran w/Combi-Melta & Power Sword
• 2x Veterans w/Boltgun or Storm Bolter & Storm Shield

Add in cheap, bare bones Terminators to tank AP 0 to help with foot slogging, or include a Vanguard Vet to let you escape melee and still shoot - or add both! 

 

If you want to use the Cyclones, I suggest adding them into squads of stalker boltgun and missile launcher vets instead. That way they all want to stay at range and benefit from it. 

[vigitant]

I agree with Lemondish completely, but I'd also advise picking up some rapid fire helblasters and throwing them in a fortis KT.  Our vets can take AT, but they're never going to be efficient at it.  Our Helblasters are excellent AT with 10 wounds worth of primaris between them and incoming fire.

[Lemondish]

I agree with Lemondish completely, but I'd also advise picking up some rapid fire helblasters and throwing them in a fortis KT. Our vets can take AT, but they're never going to be efficient at it. Our Helblasters are excellent AT with 10 wounds worth of primaris between them and incoming fire.

Agreed 100% here. The Fortis KT with Hellblasters is surprisingly capable in that role.

[Syward]

I'm already planning to take 2x Fortis Kill teams w/5x Intercessors, 4x Hellblasters & 1x Inceptor w/Plasma. I'll also be running w/2x Kill Teams w/5x Intercessors w/Auto-Bolt, 4x Aggressors w/Boltstorm & Frag & 1x Inceptor w/Assault Bolters - those four kill teams are going to be the core of my army along with a Primaris Librarian & a Primaris Watch Captain.

 

I was just looking for something to build using the "spare" parts from the Deathwatch Box set as I purchased it solely for the molded shoulders to use on my Primaris marines. 

[Lemondish]

I'm already planning to take 2x Fortis Kill teams w/5x Intercessors, 4x Hellblasters & 1x Inceptor w/Plasma. I'll also be running w/2x Kill Teams w/5x Intercessors w/Auto-Bolt, 4x Aggressors w/Boltstorm & Frag & 1x Inceptor w/Assault Bolters - those four kill teams are going to be the core of my army along with a Primaris Librarian & a Primaris Watch Captain.

 

I was just looking for something to build using the "spare" parts from the Deathwatch Box set as I purchased it solely for the molded shoulders to use on my Primaris marines.

I've been using that set myself to build up KT specific models with gear that I wouldn't otherwise have used in 40k. I've been really unlucky with finding more storm bolter bits, so I'm not expanding past what I already have now as I really enjoy Primaris more.

 

However, I would love to have combi-melta teams work better than they do. I enjoy my Razorback bomb squads, but they're pretty expensive...

[Syward]

I may do the same & save them for Kill Team games once I get around to buying the set & rules.

 

What's a Razorback bomb squad? I have a spare Razorback that I haven't built yet.

[Lemondish]

I may do the same & save them for Kill Team games once I get around to buying the set & rules.

 

What's a Razorback bomb squad? I have a spare Razorback that I haven't built yet.

Just the nickname I used for my melta squads - 6 man, 3 Combi meltas, a couple mauls, a frag cannon and a couple storm shields all in a TAC Razorback (I'm using the turret from the Baal Pred for it). Amazing damage, but still pretty squishy so they hit hard and are done for, like a bomb lol

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Lemondish

 

I have mad respect for you brother. /thumbsup

 

I love melta too - only a fool would dis on its amazing ness .

 

Do you play pure Deathwatch ?

[Lemondish]

Yep. I'm hardcore with the Watch and I will stubbornly try anything to fill their gaps, even if it's often considered weak or inefficient. Melta isn't in a good spot...but it's better when you have doctrines, mission tactics, and rerolls alongside a few 3++ boys available to tank for you. Will still die like marines, but boy do they burn brightly...

[Claws and Effect]

I like a couple missile launchers, a heavy bolter, and 2 Stalker bolters in a backline squad. Spend some CP and you could possibly put 6 mortal wounds on a vehicle (9 if it's a flyer). 

[Lemondish]

I like a couple missile launchers, a heavy bolter, and 2 Stalker bolters in a backline squad. Spend some CP and you could possibly put 6 mortal wounds on a vehicle (9 if it's a flyer).

Great pick, too. Certainly hope missiles see a price drop in CA. I actually really like the flexibility they have.

[Prot]

Some great advice here, but it's time for my off the wall advice! 

 

Just a forewarning; I rarely do what's popular in 40K, if ever. So take this with a grain of salt...

 

My goofy squad has been working extremely well for me. It's more of a combination of things so hear me out before you ALT-F4 out of here. ;)

 

I use a smallish Vet squad that I have tweaked over the months several times so it is flexible depending on points. But I play pure DW as well so this concept has multiple benefits.

 

I have a run and gun Fortis squad that benefits, and protects my set up. 

The set up itself is:

A Vet squad with a combination of a Missle Launcher (up to 2), and often one IHB (or just heavy bolter). These two items set up the mortal wound Strats going right through armour. The IHB is okay though. Missile launcher has its own potential otherwise even without Flak Strat.

 

Part two is the rest of the squad, often it can be Stalker Bolters which have been very good for me.... which I confess I haven't used them until now because I stopped using them in 7th and wanted to use more Primaris. But they work well in this squad. 

 

Part 3 is the glue. A Ven Dread with dual Las and Missile launcher. 

 

He spits out Wisdom every turn I need it. This makes the platform much more effective. Don't be too afraid to move with this cluster of units either. It still works on the run, re-rolling 1's. Since the dread gets the mission tactic, this has, at times, been a very productive unit for me.

 

Also back to the 'pure deathwatch ' comment; this combination helps me keep a back line, scoring unit for objectives, etc.

 

Originally when I came up with this I was accused by my gaming group of being borderline idiotic (for probably good reason). Now though I have tuned this squad and it (more importantly) gels with the rest of my list. If it doesn't move, with Wisdom firing off, it is actually 'good'. (I won't call it tournament cut throat good, but it's a fun alternative).

 

So there you have my little secret anti armour combination. 50% of the time it works 80% of the time!

 

Part of this for me is always the challenge of staying true to the background while trying to make non-traditional units work.

[Mobius0288]

I run the same Prot. My backline is usually a Dominus Aegis Capt for turn 1 Invuls, an Intercessor unit for ranged touching, a stalker/missile/HB squad for anti-tank/mortal wounds, and a Ven Dread with twin Las/Missile.

 

Obviously you have Forgeworld to expand some of your options (contemptor mortis being one of the best stand alone platforms, and cheapest way to bring 2 lascannons in the game).

 

For the close range anti-vehicle, similar to what you run... I've used:

Sgt - Combi-melta

Vet  - Combi-melta

Vet x 2 - Storm bolter / Storm shields

Vet - Frag Cannon

 

Used to run 3 combi-melta but the frag makes it a little more versatile against infantry. I also use this for warlord assasination (decapitation doctrine). I have never failed to kill a warlord with this squad once I've committed to it. Highly recommended.

 

An alternative to the OPs original intent with a cyclone missile launcher , you can try the following (combat squaded for points efficiency):

Vet - Combi-melta

Vet x 2 - Storm bolter / storm shields

Termie - CML + Storm bolter / melta fist

VV - pistol / chainsword

 

You can fluff it up with more veterans as required but that gives you 2 Meltas, missile shots against vehicles or infantry, Tempest Shell stratagem option, Doctrine stratagem option, 2 invul chances and a fall back and shoot option if you get charged after deep strike. The VV can definitely be converted to a vet for a slightly cheaper body, or another termie (sword/SB) for 2+ armor save before you start using the termie with the CML. In all cases, its expensive and is comparable to hellblasters.

[Syward]

Thanks for the replies & suggestions everyone. 

 

I actually have the part to make one the following squads:

 

“Razorback Bomb Squad” Veterans [16 PL, 331pts]
. 1x Watch Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power maul

. 1x Black Shield: Combi-melta, Power maul
. 1x Veteran: Combi-melta, Power maul
. 2x Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. 1x Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon

. 1x Razorback w/Twin Lascannon

 

“Fire Line Squad” Veterans [15 PL, 346pts]
. 1x Watch Sergeant: Stalker Pattern Boltgun
. 2x Veteran: Stalker Pattern Boltgun, Storm shield
. 2x Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

. 2x Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Power fist, Cyclone missile launcher, Storm Bolter

 

I'll have the parts later the make the which ever squad I don't make now when I buy the 2nd Deathwatch box to steal the shoulders for my Fortis Kill teams. I really like the idea of both the Razorback Bomb Squad and the missile heavy squad.

 

What are your thoughts on Vanguard Veteran squads? Anyone have any success using them as a Warlord killers or as a "bomb squad"? I have the parts to make the following squad:

 

“Dual-wield Plasma” Vanguard Veterans [9 PL, 165pts]
. 1x Deathwatch Vanguard Sergeant: 2x Plasma pistol, Melta bombs
. 4x Vanguard Veteran: 2x Plasma pistol

 

Seems like it could be an effective 1 use squad, being able to deep strike w/out CP, fly over obstacles/units to get to target, 10 plasma shots and the ability to lock the target down in CC and still use the plasma. (Plus, I think the squad would amazing. LOL) Obviously they'd be extremely fragile w/only 5 total wounds & no inv. save & would likely not be much use past their initial deployment & use. 

 

I'd likely never use all three units in the same list, but rather use them one at time with a specific objective/target in mind. I may also just keep the parts un-assembled  & use them later to make a couple of Kill Teams for when I buy the Kill Team Boxed set. 

[xenomortis]

At 2k points my standard list is now 2 Deathwatch battalions. Both are led by a Watch Master and a librarian (1 with jump pack).

 

I usually teleport 1 Watch Master, a squad of 5 hellblasters and a leviathan dread. I also drop in the jump pack librarian to cast might of heroes on the dread. I use this squad to drop in and delete something(s) with a combination of: The Tome of Ectoclades to change the mission tactic as required, Doctrines and the Watch Masters rerolls.

 

My second Watch Master sits back with the following:

 

Squad of 7 veterans

5 stalker pattern boltguns

1 missile launcher

1 heavy bolter

 

Points dependent I will also add a ven dread with Twin las / missile launcher and / or a Relic Whirlwind Scorpius.

 

These are my backline and usually do a good job. The HB and ML stratagems are a good source of mortal wounds to consistently put the hurt on something, most of the time armour or monsters. The Watch Master rerolls are absolutely vital

 

The rest of my force is made up of a mixture of kill teams, both primaris and old marines. My standard anti tank kill team consists of:

 

Sgt with combi melta

Combi melta

3 x frag cannon