Preceptor or Gallant

[.Torch.]

Hi guys,

 

Been looking at adding a Knight to my Custodes force for something different to paint. I ideally want it to round off the force to roughly 1750pts. I like the Gallant, but my army is already close combat heavy. On the otherhand the Preceptor offers a shiney new Las-weapon, which is a good opportunity to try out some glow effects.

 

My current list is:

 

Trajann

 

Dawneagle Shield Captain

 

Custodian Guard Squad x3

2 Spears

1 Shield and Blade

 

Vexilla Magnifica

 

Culexus x2

 

Vindicaire

 

Approx 1350pts, but have a fair few Custodes models to fill gaps if the Knight doesn't make it up to 1750pts.

 

Never played a Knights, so I call upon the wisdom of the forum for advice.

[BolterZorro]

Well, I don't play custodes (yet) but your list seems more CC oriented. So, I'd go with ranged support like a crusader more than with a gallant which is mainly CC oriented

[Stray]

Competitively, 100% the Gallant. It's better value in terms of points and is simply a better unit. The Preceptor really isn't very impressive - still less so if you're not running Armigers.

 

As Bolter says, (and I tend to agree), In your particular force, you might benefit more from a shooty Knight like the Crusader to balance your CC capabilities, but you'll likely need to free up some additional points to field one.

 

If it's more about aesthetics though, go with whatever you find more pleasing.

[Black Knight]

The Preceptor is to support Armigers, if you have none its a bit of a waste. The Las-Impulsor? is a middle of the road, master of none kind of weapon, although its does look really good.

[Vash113]

As the others have said the Preceptor is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, it's gun is a slightly worse Thermal Cannon/Battle Cannon hybrid, moreover it has a native ability to boost Armigers, so if you aren't running Armigers the Preceptor is not the best option. I would recommend a Preceptor and a pair of Armigers as a relatively cheap and effective minimum size Knight Lance granting your 3 CP.

So between the two the Gallant will probably serve you better. However because you have a lot of cc already your list would probably benefit more from a shooty-oriented Knight like a Crusader, Warden or, if you can find the points, a Castellan.

[Frostglaive]

If you're playing for Rule of Cool, I'd go with a Preceptor. Otherwise I'd shy away from it unless you plan on running a pair of Armigers as well. It's just... meh.

 

You do have a lot of CC capabilities in your army already. So I'd either say drop a bit and get a Crusader for some fire support.... or just go for broke and get a Gallant. All-out close combat army. Personally I like the idea of just going stir crazy and having my entire army charging the enemy lines. But again, Crusader is nice too if you want guns.

[Black Knight]

THANK YOU Vash113, I could not for the life of me get the saying right, on the tip of my tongue. jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.

[synthaside]

I took  preceptor to the Dutch GT, but it was to power up all my Armiger class knights, on its own it's legitimately better to take somthing else

If the re-roll ones to hit aura worked on itself .. this would be great .... but they dont ... 

[sneakybamsen]

But as for the kit, it's a no-brainer. Get the preceptor kit and magnetise to have all options. It's costed the same as the Crusader/Warden box but comes with the preceptor sprue included.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Ruleswise, Gallant all the way. Kitwise: get the Preceptor as it has the options to make any (Non-FW) Questoris variant.

[Emicus]

THANK YOU Vash113, I could not for the life of me get the saying right, on the tip of my tongue. jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none.

You forgot the best part! "But better than a master of one."

[.Torch.]

Cheers for the advice guys!

 

I think I will go for a Gallant and keep with the CC theme. It might be enough of a distraction to allow my footsloggers to make their way up the board.

 

Do you guys run turrets on top of them? And if so which ones?

[Black Knight]

If we have points we add turrets :D

 

Gallant may not be the best place for one though as you want to be in CC so then you cannot use it. I would fill out any ranged Knights first with turrets and then add one to the Gallant. But with your list if you have spare points add one, just fill out the rest of the army first I would say.

[Vash113]

Cheers for the advice guys! I think I will go for a Gallant and keep with the CC theme. It might be enough of a distraction to allow my footsloggers to make their way up the board. Do you guys run turrets on top of them? And if so which ones?

I pretty much never run a knight without a carapace weapon. Even for the Gallant it gives it some threat while moving up the board, and as a Titanic Knight the Gallant can fall back, shoot and charge again.

 

As for which one that depends. The missile is cheaper, doesn't need LOS and is ok for say shooting at pesky mortar teams. The twin Icarus works well at discouraging flyers and works very well targeting anything with the fly keyword, like jetbikes, battlesuits, assault marines etc. The Stormspear Rockets are a three shot krak missile, good for popping light and mid armored targets.

[Prot]

I don’t want to hijack the thread but as a side note I retired (sold on eBay) my bigger Knights and I’ve been using my Armigers to bulk up my AdMech. I’m wondering if you guys have played the Preceptor with Armigers and found it to be worth the trade off in raw firepower or close combat prowess to justify in such a set up?

[Clingy]

Why did you sell your knights if I may?

[sneakybamsen]

I don’t want to hijack the thread but as a side note I retired (sold on eBay) my bigger Knights and I’ve been using my Armigers to bulk up my AdMech. I’m wondering if you guys have played the Preceptor with Armigers and found it to be worth the trade off in raw firepower or close combat prowess to justify in such a set up?

 

Haven't tried the preceptor, as I don't own the kit, but I think I will get one, just to have more options. When I do (not a matter of "if", I'm afraid), I think I will give the armiger spam a go at some point. But if the preceptor is the only knight, I have a feeling it will be targetted.

[synthaside]

My experience with the preceptor is that its tough to actually keep any more than 3 mini knights with It when you consider deployment , movement other units etc , infact i've had way better luck using my Armigers as fast flanking units ... 

When a table and mission suits though it's pretty demolishing .... eg my knight lance sat on a relic untill all my other units arrived.
or having all 3 of my Armiger heroic intervene to avenge the precepter who was most likely gallant food. In the end she lived on 1 wound.

[Prot]

Why did you sell your knights if I may?

 

I was frustrated with AdMech throughout 8th and I was very excited to add Knights to the mix. I renewed my Knight hobby with the release of the Knight codex and kept going with my Knight house but it was too much for most of the people I play.

 

I sold the Castellan first. He was a true beast. I remember saying from day 1 I felt there was a strong chance Raven + Raven tactic + Cawl's Decimator + Castellan = death incarnate. A few people argued that they felt some others would be stronger/ more potent, but I don't think so. It was embarassingly good. Add in Oath breaker missile guidance and I felt pretty sheepish. I did stop using the strats entirely, but found with even a normal Knight compliment it was just way too strong for every day games.

 

So I kept the other Knights but found my Admech went from losers to exceptionally hard to beat. Once my opponents couldn't tie me up for multiple turns, it kind of changed our little meta. Knights kind of got a bad stigma at our local GW too. I wasn't going to go back to pulling out Admech that get Rick Rolled by psychic phases, and aggressive hordes so I sold the Knights in their entirety.

 

I now have 2 half built Knights. I kept 2 Armigers. I have 2 Helverins unbuilt, and want to revisit building it back up to basically Admech with one cruddy knight and Armigers. If the Preceptor is perceived as being bad, this might be my ticket to allowing me to play some Knights with my Admech without feeling guilty about it.

[Clingy]

 

Why did you sell your knights if I may?

 

I was frustrated with AdMech throughout 8th and I was very excited to add Knights to the mix. I renewed my Knight hobby with the release of the Knight codex and kept going with my Knight house but it was too much for most of the people I play.

 

I sold the Castellan first. He was a true beast. I remember saying from day 1 I felt there was a strong chance Raven + Raven tactic + Cawl's Decimator + Castellan = death incarnate. A few people argued that they felt some others would be stronger/ more potent, but I don't think so. It was embarassingly good. Add in Oath breaker missile guidance and I felt pretty sheepish. I did stop using the strats entirely, but found with even a normal Knight compliment it was just way too strong for every day games.

 

So I kept the other Knights but found my Admech went from losers to exceptionally hard to beat. Once my opponents couldn't tie me up for multiple turns, it kind of changed our little meta. Knights kind of got a bad stigma at our local GW too. I wasn't going to go back to pulling out Admech that get Rick Rolled by psychic phases, and aggressive hordes so I sold the Knights in their entirety.

 

I now have 2 half built Knights. I kept 2 Armigers. I have 2 Helverins unbuilt, and want to revisit building it back up to basically Admech with one cruddy knight and Armigers. If the Preceptor is perceived as being bad, this might be my ticket to allowing me to play some Knights with my Admech without feeling guilty about it.

 

 

 

ahh thats a shame. I do know what you mean about the stigma, most armies you dont have to "ask for permission to play" but with knights there is a real "golly gee you want to use your models" sad thing is i dont think mono knights is as OP anymore

[Vash113]

I was frustrated with AdMech throughout 8th and I was very excited to add Knights to the mix. I renewed my Knight hobby with the release of the Knight codex and kept going with my Knight house but it was too much for most of the people I play.

I'll echo Clingy in saying it's a shame that your army is impacted by the people you play with. I am fortunate that there are a half dozen other Knight players in my local community and even they don't generally want to play my Knight army either! Still I do occasionally get a game in, and with how little I play anyway it's not been a problem.

[Stray]

There's some irony to the whole 'won't play Knights' thing.

 

There was a recent post on another site, which contains a lot of data as to factional standing in the competitive meta. This included both soup set ups, and data on 'pure' factions. For me, it was pretty eye opening.

 

The truth is, Knights are only middling from a performance standpoint. Renegade Knights (my own army), when factored as both a soup component and standalone, are actually almost the worst performing faction in the entire game. Only Death Watch placed more poorly. (I have never been so proud to be a filthy heretic )

 

Knights perform OK, but it's utterly silly (and likely entirely based on an incorrect, word-of-mouth 'impression' people have taken up) to think that standalone Knights should be any issue for a person to handle in a game. Not if your list building has been in any way competent really :/

 

Hell, even without comfortable levels of anti-tank, they could/should probably often still win on VP - though I accept the game may not be the most entertaining

 

This isn't a rant, or a complaint about Knights of course - like all armies, sometimes they do well, other times they don't - and I enjoy mine in either case. But it's worth pointing out that this commonly held opinion regarding Knights, isn't (I believe) entirely supported by facts...

 

Here's the data if anyone else would like to have a look:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QMLDIaN6EW45bZwERoW4QsxstzQA1Ej1k-Pu1aWxp8I/edit#gid=1717057731

[Black Knight]

Remember these games are not in a competative setting, so the official standing of armies has no effect on the image some armies get. Alot of people playing want to play with hardly any effort and seeing a Knight army means they have to concentrate, thats why they don't like them. It is the same thing with Death Watch and frag cannons, you actually have to think how to bypass them, you cannot just force move your entire army into your opponent and win.

 

Not everyone gets a thrill from having to go against an army that dictates that a SINGLE mistake looses you the game :D but then some of us revel in that.

[Charlo]

Gallant. All the way.

 

Yeah shooting is cool and effective, but so is a stampeding mechanical monstrosity getting a turn one charge on your opponent for a few CP. Nothing can prepare for it. It also occupies the unique role of absorbing shooting for a turn to let your Custodes advance unhindered. Really lets you get a Vexilla in position for that nasty deep strike too.