Rumination on Radical Redesign of Raging Roidheads (DC)

[Indefragable]

It has become painfully clear that Space Wolves are the fair haired child when it comes to certain things. Namely, Wulfen.

 

Wulfen are essentially everything that the fluff says Death Company should be. We have to accept that.

 

There are already (IMO) too many similarities between the vicious assault-oriented Space Wolves and the vicious assault-oriented Blood Angels. Simply copy+pasta the rules for Wulfen and slapping them on DC, while welcome in it's own way, is probably not viable at this point.

 

Rather, I propose a complete drawing board rework of Death Company.

 

Ready? Here we go.

 

******

Black Rage:

Models with this rule gain one attack on a turn in which they have charged and add 1 to all distances measured for the purposes of movement, advancing, charging, pile in, distance from enemy models, and consolidation moves, so long as those moves are in the direction of an enemy model. So any model that is 2" away from an enemy unit, rather than 1" may fight in the fight phase, models that are 2" away from a model in the same unit that is base-to-base with an enemy may fight, and so on. 

 

In addition, at the end of a Turn in which a model with this rule has lost a wound, on a 4+ that model may shoot or pile in and fight as if it were the Fight phase.

 

Models with this rule can not take casualties for failing Morale tests caused by losing models in the same unit.

*******

 

Designer's note: the idea here is that they are still suspectible (even more so) to any sort of abilities that wound against Leadership, but befitting their fluff as bat- :cuss crazy good-guy berzerkers who are caught in a muderous schitozophrenic break where they think they are their father in his moment of badass death they will not run away simply because of Morale

Likewise, since Space Wolves' Wulfen are essentially everything DC should be, rather than going in that direction this further differentiates Death Company from them. Whereas Wulfen are truly "Elite" models, DC become the "regular Astartes" profile pushed to the absolute max with abilities not found elsewhere in the game. This makes the crunch further fit the fluff in the sense that the Death Company are essentially "just" Space Marines, but ones that are utterly terrifying and unpredictable to the enemy…a force the foe MUST contend with immediately lest a single charge break his entire backbone

 

Move 13" (12"+1), charge 13" (12+1), count as being in combat if they are 2" away from an enemy, rather than 1" (so essentially another 1 to charge rolls), and can get even more models to swing in combat.

 

In essence, this takes them from being a 24" threat range (12" move + 12" charge) to a 28" threat, and even if you shoot or stab them down, they may still hurt you.

 

This makes the DC a truly fire-and-forget berzerk unit that the enemy has no choice but to deal with immediately since even just a few of them getting in range will hurt no matter what. Yet they are relatively easily countered since they are still "just" Astartes. They're defense is their extreme mobility, sheer offensive output, and especially when combined with Forlorn Fury, their force multiplier when it comes to dictating the enemy's plans for him.

 

Discuss.

[Xenith]

It seems complex.

 

I liked them when they had loads of attacks and rended.

 

Rather than messing with new rules or pointless 6+ saves, id like to see a mix of the lash whips rule for defense, berserker rule for offence, then their fists be a flat S5 AP-1 D2.

 

They can punch a primaris in half, fight, then fight again, and when a model is killed in combat it it not removed immediately, but at the end of the phase, and gets to fight if it hasn't already.

 

Actually giving BA a flat 6" consolidation across the board wouldn't be too shabby.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

When the Wulfen got the ability to fight after dying I felt the sting that they are literally everything Desth Company should be. But let the space pups have the mutant marines.

 

I've come to terms with it a while ago. I do wish they had that ability stock though.

 

I'm not really sure there is a way to fix DC even if they got a 5+++. 2 wounds would probably be a damn good change. But a 3+ isn't what it used to be unfortunately and that is the elephant in the room.

[9x19 Parabellum]

What about giving them the ability to advance and charge in the same turn, representing their bloodlust?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

What about giving them the ability to advance and charge in the same turn, representing their bloodlust?

That is a cool ability, but I feel Forlorn Fury is basically the same thing. They are still a glass cannon unit which is the bigger issue.

[Panzer]

+1 to charge and counting as in melee at 2" is too much. That would mean you'd need only a 7 on the charge roll after deep striking, making it with re-rolls an almost save bet.

 

Also their low LD is supposed to represent their recklessness. They don't run away when you fail your moral check, they simply got more severe wounds than other Marines would have so they didn't make it to the enemy. I'll take this version over worse armour or +1 to hit/wound against them or whatever any time to be honest. It would just be nice if GW would stop talking about running away all the time when they told us it's not just about running away. Really gives the wrong feel to it.

 

I understand the comparison with Wulfen but to be fair Deathcompany were never that unique since Khorne Berzerker already existed and they are even closer to Deathcompany since they don't even need any mutations or such. Not to mention there used to be the ones fallen to the Red Thirst in the fluff (tho rarely mentioned) which is our own version of Wulfen (mutated ragey Marines).

 

I'm with Xenith and rather like to see them having tons of attacks. Now Berzerker have the fight twice special rule and Wulfen have the fight again when getting killed special rule ... how about DC models getting +1A for each enemy model within 1"? That would add tons of attacks against hordes and even 2-3 per model against more elite units as well. Or exploding dice on a 5+ (literally half their hits would be new attacks). Or re-rolling failed hit rolls as default representing their relentlessness rather than their skill. A 6" consolidate as Xenith mentioned would be great as well and also tie in with the relentlessness theme. DC also shouldn't be able to fall back on their own, however that would probably just be unnecessary rules bloat. :P

[tychobi]

I like the idea of rules reinforcing my vision of Death co. For my taste the rules fail to express my vision of the Death companies brutal assault power, ability to fight through injury, and most of all their crazed uncontrolled nature.

 

To add to the previous awesome suggestions I propose a possible suite of additional rules to promote my vision of the Blood Angels Death Company.

 

Reroll to wound in assault phase. Supports already potent red fury.

 

5+ feel no pain. No need to get complex.

 

Death Co must use all movement available to move as close as possible to enemy models in all phases. At the beginning of the assault phase Death Co automatically declare charges on every enemy unit within 12' unless already in melee with an enemy model. Put em down and off they go!

 

Death co may not fall back from combat and do not take losses from failed morale tests. Fanatics.

 

Balanced???

[Xenith]

 

Death Co must use all movement available to move as close as possible to enemy models in all phases. At the beginning of the assault phase Death Co automatically declare charges on every enemy unit within 12' unless already in melee with an enemy model. Put em down and off they go!

 

This is the 5th ed 'Rage' rule. Great in theory, in practice easily exploited and saw squads of DC chasing after empty rhinos all game. It would be worse this edition with them having to chase flyers. 

 

If you have this rule, then they need base movement 8" or something, and S6 base to obliterate what they chase after.

 

 

I like the idea of rules reinforcing my vision of Death co. For my taste the rules fail to express my vision of the Death companies brutal assault power, ability to fight through injury, and most of all their crazed uncontrolled nature.

 

 

5+ feel no pain. No need to get complex.

 

I'm a fan of the fighting through injury, but I feel the DC should actually die at somepoint.

 

I'd consider removing FNP altogether, but having each model attack in CC before being removed. This doesnt solve the problem of them being shot.

 

What would be hilarious is a rule like the old black templar rule:

 

Forlorn fury: When a model from this unit is removed as a casualty, move the unit d6" toward the nearest visible enemy unit. If it comes within 1", the unit counts as having charged. 

[Panzer]

 

What would be hilarious is a rule like the old black templar rule:

 

Forlorn fury: When a model from this unit is removed as a casualty, move the unit d6" toward the nearest visible enemy unit. If it comes within 1", the unit counts as having charged. 

 

 

lol yeah I thought about that. Imagine Sete&Co raging if that'd happen. :D

[Slasher956]

Just to point out their max charge would still be the rule book 12" max as the +1 doesnt over ride that... see the acrobatic rule on Banshees that says they can charge up to 15" away.

 

But to simulate the DC of lore I would add the following:

 

Fearless - immune to moral checks

Black rage - re-roll 1's to hit in combat,  6+  to hit add -1 to the AP,  5+ FNP

'I am my Farther' - this model may carry out a heroic intervention as if a character

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

But to simulate the DC of lore I would add the following:

 

Fearless - immune to moral checks

Black rage - re-roll 1's to hit in combat, 6+ to hit add -1 to the AP, 5+ FNP

'I am my Farther' - this model may carry out a heroic intervention as if a character

I will never understand the need for so many rules on 1 unit. We are 1 year removed from a horrible edition with over the top rules for units.

 

The easier fix is having more Death Company specific stratagems.

 

Unyielding Fury: 3CP select one unit with the <Death Company> keyword that unit now ignores wounds on a 4+ rather than a 6+

 

Wrath of the Angel: 1CP use this stratagem immediately after a model in this unit loses a wound in the shooting phase. It may immediately move as if it were the movement phase and adavance.

 

Through carnage victory: 3CP use this stratagem immediately after a unit with the <Death Company> keyword completely destroys an enemy unit. After consolidating this unit may charge the closest enemy unit it can as if it were the beginning of the charge phase, and attack as if it were the beginning of the fight phase. Your opponent may overwatch as if the unit was selected as a target in the charge phase.

[Panzer]

I'd rather have more unit specific special rules than more unit specific stratagems. Just saying.

[Charlo]

How about at the end of your opponents shooting phase, you count the number of models that were casualties from this unit. For each model lost the unit can immediately move that many inches towards the nearest enemy unit. If it gets within 1" it counts as charging that unit and as such may fight in the subsequent fight phase, it's attacks occuring after your opponents first charging unit has been selected to fight and resolved it's attacks.

 

Combine with fearless and fighting if they die before attacking.

 

Can balance out with that if they die roll a dice,on a 2+ you can fight before being removed, bit on a 1 the attacks are against its own unit!

 

Fire and forget lads.

[tychobi]

In terms of the 5th ed rage rule that forced dc to chase rinos, that was the point. Timing your dc drop now means more if you need to consider their path of destruction. Right now dc are a scalpel, going after targets chosen carefully by the general, falling back from combat, claiming objectives. Not fluffy at all! Thats what vanguard vets are for. Dc should be a terrifying force of destruction mitigated by their unpredictability. Right now they are marginally more effective elite assault marines. . . Snooze. There should be a woozy feeling of unease when you put these models on the table. They might tear the hole in the enemy line you need but might also be tricked into chasing ghosts.

 

Possibly the buffs I suggested might not offset the huge nerf that would be an uncontrollable death co. How good would they need to be to be worth the risk?

[Indefragable]

In terms of the 5th ed rage rule that forced dc to chase rinos, that was the point. Timing your dc drop now means more if you need to consider their path of destruction. Right now dc are a scalpel, going after targets chosen carefully by the general, falling back from combat, claiming objectives. Not fluffy at all! Thats what vanguard vets are for. Dc should be a terrifying force of destruction mitigated by their unpredictability. Right now they are marginally more effective elite assault marines. . . Snooze. There should be a woozy feeling of unease when you put these models on the table. They might tear the hole in the enemy line you need but might also be tricked into chasing ghosts.

 

Possibly the buffs I suggested might not offset the huge nerf that would be an uncontrollable death co. How good would they need to be to be worth the risk?

 

Yes. That is my intention with the original idea to presented. 

 

DC as a unit that messes with the core rules of the game to keep everyone on their toes. 

 

The idea would be that yes, like Banshees, they could in fact declare (and reach) charge targets >12" away. And it's far easier for them to get into the fight and for even more of them to be able to punch then the opponent can. Fighting from 2" out rather than 1" means they could double tap bolters while opponents can only use pistols, etc... And even when you kill them, prepare for them to go down swinging. 

 

But all that is mitigated by them still being "only" space marines defensively. It is up to a careful Chaplain general to know exactly when and where to cry Havoc and let slip those dogs of war.