Paint company comparison

[Guest]

First, I tried to find this in the Forge and a search but couldnt find anything. So if this has been discussed please point me in the right direction.

 

I have run out of some key GW paints (namely black, grey, white) plus some have the ones I rarely used have dries in the pot, and I plan to replace them. However there are so many options Vallejo, Reaper, Scale 75, Coat d'arms, etc.

 

The only paints I have tried outside GW is Vallejo Metal Color range, which I really like, and Vallejo model color which seemed to separate quickly on my wet pallete.

 

I have watched a bunch of videos but still can't make up where to go for majority of my paint. I can only say that it would be hard to get me away from Vallejo Metal Color. However I wanted a bigger audience perspective on these paint companies. I have listed what I've been told/viewed below.

 

Scale 75: Really good, but difficult to work with/thin.

Vallejo Model Color: Seems to be the industry standard.

Vallejo Game Color: seems to have QA or standardization issues

Reaper: the best for beginners and comes pre-thinned.

Coat d'arms: not much said about these, they seem to be just ok.

GW: expensive but has some unique colors, awful pots.

[Brother Tyler]

Are you open to adding airbrush colors into the discussion? Createx has a large line of colors that people might use as alternatives/additions to GW's airbrush colors. There are probably other airbrush color providers that other hobbyists might bring up.

[Guest]

Are you open to adding airbrush colors into the discussion? Createx has a large line of colors that people might use as alternatives/additions to GW's airbrush colors. There are probably other airbrush color providers that other hobbyists might bring up.

 

Sadly I only really use airbrush for base coating. I just don't have the setup to really do fine details with an airbrush. However if I can use them with a brush I am up for it.

 

Edit: looked up those colors and they look fantastic.

[Rik Lightstar]

I use a selection of GW, P3, Vallejo (Metal, Game, Model Colour), Army Painter (mostly for washes).

 

But I'll buy the colour I want from any range and I don't think you need to stick to a single range.

 

Rik

[Arkhanist]

When I got back into the hobby, GW had just changed the entire paint range (2012, I think?) so I was determined if I was going to rebuild, I wouldn't be doing it with GW - not least as a massive chunk of my old hex-pot paints were dried solid. So I have been using a lot of different paints over the last 6 years, and have an asset drop subscription so have tried quite a few more.

 

The main thing I've learned - do you mostly like to come up with your own schemes, or do you see one you like and find out how it was done?

 

Because if it's the latter, you're going to spend a *lot* of time trying to find citadel equivalents because that's what most warhammer painters use, and you can find one that's close, but it's not quite the same, and paint equivalent apps/websites aren't terribly accurate at times. If you can afford the higher cost per ml (even with discounters, they're quite expensive) then there isn't really a replacement for citadel paints colours except in some specific instances. You can decant citadel paint into dropper bottles; it's a pain, but it's definitely worth it for the airbrush paint at least.

 

The other thing that's worth bearing in mind - what paints are easily available to you? Ones that are hard to find i.e. only available from a couple of specific online retailers are probably not worth the effort.

 

So, by paint range, and all my opinion of course.

 

Scale 75: I have a bunch of metallics and blues. Very high pigment load, dries very matt, quite thick so you can dilute to taste, but definitely layer paints, they dry slightly translucent so aren't brilliant as base paints. Need a lot of shaking, ideally with an added shaker. Some very vivid colours. Really great for blending. Metallics are super-fine pigments, up there with the big vallejo metal color pots, and a much wide range of golds, coppers and unusual colors (the alchemy paints, mostly for adjusting other paints). My goto metals with a brush. Having real trouble airbrushing them though, they dry solid in the airbrush super fast even with scale 75 thinner, possibly because they're a partial alcohol base.

 

Vallejo model color: possibly my favourite citadel replacement. Coverage very good, similar to base paints, pretty matt, consistent paint. Aimed at WWII, so not a massive overlap with citadel colours. I use a lot of their greys and greens. Also the mediums are pretty useful.

 

Vallejo game color: don't have a lot of these, mostly reds, was initially put off as mine came overfilled with medium. Draining that off, they seem to feel much like citadel layer paints. Average? Wider range of colors. washes pretty sucky.

 

Vallejo model air: really nice airbrush paints, works pretty much out of the pot, don't often match model color paints of same name. For simplicity, I use quite a lot of these in my airbrush to get a base colour down. metals are OK, but much prefer the metal color range, where they're a suitable color.

 

vallejo metal color: you already have these, they're really good in the airbrush, but expensive in big pots and lots of steels and silvers, not much else. Will probably buy more of these in future, the chrome's are pretty unique for an acrylic.

 

Reaper: the triads are handy, I use them mainly for different flesh colours and browns. I'd probably use them more, but they're not easy to get in UK. Coverage is decent.

 

P3: some really unique colors, sanguine base is a personal favourite. Not a fan of the flip-top lids, the tabs break off, again difficult to get for me.

 

coat d'arms: direct replacement of the old, old HMG GW paints. Limited range. Feel kinda old-school, only have a couple, hate flip-top lids.

 

foundry: similar to coat d'arms but a lot of triads. Only have a handful, they're OK, flip-top lids again.

 

Italeri: only have a grey triad, but quite impressed. The offwhite (gull grey) is very useful as very good coverage. May well pick up some more if I can find them reliably.

 

Army Painter: Picked a set of these up initially. Some very inconsistent thickness. Mostly good coverage though, they've recently expanded their colour range. Very cheap per ml, matches the spray can primers if that's useful. Feels kinda like the pre-2012 citadel range in dropper bottles. Use my existing colours quite a bit but needed to fill in the original gaps in the range with vallejo and haven't needed to go back yet. Washes are nice, definitely a devlan mud replacement; but also stains the rest of the colour, like a glaze, so great for cloth etc, not so great where you want a sharper contrast (metals, flesh, hard surfaces)

 

Mr paint: only have a couple, rather thin coverage. Bottles slightly too fat to fit in my vallejo racks.

 

darkstar metallics: dry less grainy than they look, better coverage than scale 75, some nice coppers. Prefer scale 75 finish though.

 

instar: pre-thinned, nice for blending, has many current and previous citadel equivalent colours. May well pick up some more for layering.

 

flory models weathering washes: special mention for these. Water-based clay, they're great for dirtying things up, then wiping off the surfaces when dry with a damp cloth.

 

citadel: base paints damn hard to replace. Been slowly picking up more and more of these, recently bought the base and wash paint set. Technicals pretty unique. Pots aren't great. huge colour range, and unsurprisingly the defacto standard for other painters. Airbrush paint actually pretty good once you decant them into dropper bottles, again unique colours. Don't have many layers as that niche filled by vallejo and army painter, but again difficult to match, especially the lighter colours. Gloss washes really handy for metals and space marines, they get into the crevices really well. Metals good coverage but grainy.

 

If I had to start my whole collection over again?

 

I'd just bite the bullet and mostly buy just citadel, and possibly instar for layers. It's expensive, somewhat annoying pots, but finding equivalents has long been a giant pain in the ass. I'd keep scale 75 metallics as they're just really nice, and vallejo metal color for airbrush. Some vallejo model air for specific colors, such as the reds.

 

If I started over and didn't need to worry about citadel colour equivalence? Vallejo model colour where possible, and fill the rest with army painter. Metals as above, but I'd add citadel technicals and gloss washes. Vallejo model air and game air for airbrushing. If I lived in the US and P3/reaper were more available than vallejo, I'd probably consider them more.

[Guest]

*snip*

If I started over and didn't need to worry about citadel colour equivalence? Vallejo model colour where possible, and fill the rest with army painter. Metals as above, but I'd add citadel technicals and gloss washes. Vallejo model air and game air for airbrushing. If I lived in the US and P3/reaper were more available than vallejo, I'd probably consider them more.

 

This is all great information, I have easy access to reaper (i think). Since I do HH SW scheme and Black Templars I do a lot of blacks, various greys, reds and oranges. In your opinion what do these colors the best.

 

I see you play DG also what do you use for DG Green if you don't use DG Green, or have another scheme.

[techsoldaten]

A few things worth adding:

 

1) Badger Minitaire - Airbrush paints. Cheap to get a complete set. Decent match for standard GW colors. Downside is the colors are a little less vibrant.

 

2) Vallejo Metal Colors - Excellent metal colors. Works for airbrushes and paintbrushes. Applies in a very thin layer, hard to match with other ranges.

 

3) Vallejo Model Air Metallics - Excellent metallics, diffect from the Metal Colors line. Can be used with airbrush or brush. Easier to thin and slightly brighter than the Metal Colors line.

[Arkhanist]

I'm still at the testing stage for my death guard proper (working on blood angel death company at the moment which uses multiple different brands; vallejo model air, army painter, P3, reaper, model color, scale 75, along with mephiston red and the citadel technicals), but the one I'm leaning towards for DG is based on army painter necrotic flesh with ogryn camo highlight. I do have a pot of death guard green now which I might use instead, which there just isn't a close equivalent for I could find (I did a post somewhere comparing various brand greens in the DG forum I think, I can find it if you need). Light GW colours, particularly green and tan are usually fairly unique; you can get different light colours of course, but they won't look exactly the same.

 

For greys, I do like reaper as they have a wide range; I do use their stone triad and the dusky skin ones quite a bit, both of which are nice warmer greys, and the violet red triad is nice when I want a more purple shade. Range of browns are great. Love the various skin triads which is what got me into them in the first place. It's just import costs are a right pain.

 

Reaper paints are quite thin which is great for layering/blending and they're high pigment enough you can still do a base coat in 2-3 layers. Need to be a bit careful you don't overthin by accident on a wet palette though, or you'll be doing 4-5 layers for a basecoat, which is more effort than I can usually be bothered with. I haven't tried their brighter reds (I had army painter/game colour/model air already) but they have several nice triads like the bloodthirsty and lava triads that I'm sure would be nice enough.

 

I tend to split my paints as 'base paints' and 'layer paints' depending on how they come out the bottle/coverage, though I do still thin my base paints of course. Army Painter, vallejo model color, P3 all work well as base paints, while reaper MSP and game colour are layer paint consistency out the bottle. Theoretically reaper HD paints are more base paint like, haven't tried em though.

 

To be honest, there's not particularly large differences between model paint ranges, the biggest ones are the viscosity out of the pot and of course the available colours and pot - about 3/4 of mine are dropper bottles, which I wish everyone used. I dislike flip-top lids even more than current GW, so I do decant into droppers colours I use frequently. Try a few different ones, see which ones you like working with and can get, and go with that. There's no need to stick to just one brand, you can buy colours you like from different ranges, particularly if you can see them in the bottle first. Once you leave the citadel 'style' of painting where every colour comes as a specific base/wash/layer/edge combo. The exception is metallics and washes, they vary widely in quality between makers. For metallics, it's scale 75 for me or metal color, and washes is GW, army painter or secret weapon (literally only have a couple, but they're nice enough).

[Imren]

I have used the most common occuring paint ranges (citadel, Vallejo model/game air ranges, P3, Scale75 and Tamiya acrylics).

My experience tells me that what paints works best depends a bit on your painting method.

If you airbrush, paint range don´t matter much as longs as you prepare the paint for airbrushing, which in all cases means adding just a bit of flow improver (prevents tip dry and to some extent splatters) if it is airbrush "ready" paints such as vallejo model air or game air or citadel air. All the regular paintbrush paints you just thin them down with airbrush thinner or any medium and then add flow improver and they will be ready for airbrushing. Keep in mind that the thinner the paint is, the less output pressure you'll want otherwise the risk of splatters increase and the paint won´t dry as you spray on and cause spider effects. So always keep in mind how thin your paint in the cup is, and adjust the pressure or painting distance accordingly when airbrushing.

One paint range stands out a bit when it comes to airbrushing and that is Tamiya. They are the smoothest least clogging splattering airbrush paint out there, but they take extra effort of cleaning (need to use tamiya thinner) and handling, but will give you the smoothest least chalkies pre-highlighting white or gray over black primer out there.

For paintbrushing, it depends on your paint method. If you use wet palettes and/or you're a glazer, then I'd recommend you to stay away from the vallejo game and model range, just because they seperate too fast, they will seperate relateively quickly (to other paint ranges) on your palette when thinned and even when not thinned, so they are not suitable for wet palettes but works better with dry palettes since they will dry out before separating in this case.

Paints suitable for wet palette and glazing are those that seperate slowly or barely at all. Such as citadel and P3. P3 also have more paint retarder than the others so it dries a bit slower when paintbrushing (drying time difference is barely significant when airbrushing becuase the layer is so thin, they dry fast even with retarder).

Scale75 paints and Vallejo model colour are thick, so out of the pot they are good for drybrushing and they are heavily densely pigmented. So they have a huge span of thinning, but won't long on a wet palette.

As a conclusion;

Go for P3 or citadel if you glaze and use wet palettes (they have the slowest separetion compared to the others, especially P3).

If you wetblend, go for P3 (or add retarder on your palette everytime you need to wet blend)

Go for vallejo model/game air for airbrushing convenience (less thinnings hazzle, just add flow improver).

Go for Tamiya blacks,greys and white for the smoothest, least chalkiest preshading/prehighlighting with airbrush.

Go for Scale75 or Vallejo model colour if you drybrush alot and don´t use wet palette regularly, these are also good for using paintbrushing using layering technique with dry palette. (stay away from these if you want to use them on wet palette).

If I had to choose one paint range I´d choose P3, but that's because I use wet palette and glazing as my paint method. none of the others separate as slowly as P3. P3 also thins very well and shoot out of airbrush quite smooth. The only disadvantage is the limited colour range and the pots, but the paint itself is the best tradeoff in quality.

I'd also strongly recommend you to get the Scale75 inktensity range, they are the richest acrylic inks out there that with minimal manipulation works wonders as glazes, washes and additives to regular paints jsut to increase the colour intensity. With these you don't need citadel washes, just thinner and flow improver and they outperform agrax earthshade and nuln oil.

Good luck!


 

[micahwc]

The only paints I have locally available are Vallejos model range, some limited createx and other airbrush specific paint, the big box art store acrylic and oil paints, and the walmart style craft paints.

 

I've also ordered some Vallejo and GW from Amazon.

 

My conclusions.

 

Vallejo model paints are good, but rarely in colors suited for wargaming. They are more "realistic" colors. They can work on things like Astra Militarum tanks for camo but they generally are drab and boring. They adhere well, they sometimes are a bit thick. I've noticed at my local Hobby Lobby that they sometimes sit on the shelf for a really long time and need a good shaking before they are useable. Some of the colors will sit so long they separate in the bottle and really need stirred.

 

Vallejo Air I've used but have only been able to order them online. I like them a lot and use the game air range for most of my painting; however, I airbrush extensively and use my airbrush as much as possible. I like their thinner consistency.

 

Vallejo Liquid Metal paints are available locally at Hobby Lobby and Michaels, they are alcohol based. They need a lot of shaking and they are harder to use than water based acrylics; this being said they are by far the easiest metallic paints to cover with. They cover just about everything in one coat. They are a bit more expensive but they come in larger bottles, so it's not so bad when you consider you get like 4 ounces for the price. I highly recommend these for bright metallics that cover on the first pass. There is a commonly available 4 pack that has bronze, dark gold, lighter gold, and silver. It's about perfect as the golds can highlight the bronze and the silver can highlight the gold.

 

Createx and other airbrush specific paints have given me mixed use. Some of them have worked out really well for 40k models and some have not. My most successful uses of them have been the Createx Candy2o paints over Vallejo game air aluminum paint. They work great for metallic looking Alpha Legion, and I suppose they would work just as well in red or yellow, or other colors. These are available in limited quantities at Hobby Lobby. They are around $8 a bottle, but if its the only thing you buy Hobby Lobby has a persistent %40 coupon you can use.

 

Other airbrush specific paints have worked well or not as well depending on the brand, age, etc. The nice thing about them is they are universally very thin, so they don't require as much or any thinning; although lighter colors will not cover as well when applied via brush instead of airbrush.

 

Big box store generic acrylic paints have actually worked very well for me with the exception of metallics which have all been a failure. I used to paint a lot of Malifaux miniatures and at the time these were all I could afford. They can work well as long as you thin them a lot. They are universally very thick, and they sometimes have the same problem of sitting on the shelves too long. Give them a good stir. To save time with them when I get them I open the top, fill it most of the way with water, and stir it for a while. They will still need thinning after this, but can give good results. These are especially great for terrain just because they are cheap.

 

The last paints I have used have been the Tamiya alcohol based acrylics. These are very thick paints that need to be thinned and cleaned with either the Tamiya thinner or rubbing alcohol. I've used the green to airbrush over my Alpha Legion (sprayed with the Candy2o blue over Vallejo game air aluminum) to give them a gradient from dark blue to green. The red I use for blood effects. They are good paints for specific uses.

 

Edit 1

 

I've also done some limited testing with the acrylic paints Hobby Lobby sells for canvas painting. I've put them into a smaller bottle and thinned them extensively. They are similar to the generic paints in that they are way too thick for miniature use; but the quality is higher than the generics. They also have extensive color selection and its easy to get them in colors that will highlight each other.

 

Edit 2

 

Also, a note about ordering paint from the internet. Most of my paints have arrived undamaged and have worked fine. One bottle of Vallejo game air came with about half the paint in the packaging; but the seller sent me a new bottle for free. One set of Vallejo paint I ordered came with some of the paints seeming like they were just really old, but most of them were fine. The Tamiya has always been good when I've ordered it. I'd say about 95% of the time my paints I order have no issues and the few times there have been issues the reputable sellers have fixed the issue for me. I just need to be careful about ordering from October to May, as the weather here will freeze paint easily and this ruins them very quickly.

 

Final Edit, I promise

 

Also, the alcohol based Vallejo and Tamiya paints can be stripped with simple green. I've successfully done this.