File upload post in News forum

[Kastor Krieg]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/351455-eldar-corsair-kill-teams/

File uploads like this one crop up constantly as "News". Well, they are forum news, but they are misleading and annoying as they are now.

I've clicked that thread hoping for a new KT release and found something totally else, for a completely different game (SWA instead of Kill Team). The NRABA forum lives and breathes official and third party news about game releases, about products. The occasional board news, as in Moderati announcements, are clearly distinct by the topic and the +++ markings.

I'd ask for the File uploads to be either thread tagged with [uPLOAD] or [FILE], or alternatively just given a separate subforum of the NRABA forum.

[Charlo]

Yeah this one caught me out too. Seconded.

 

The guys making these sort of things are doing an EXCELLENT job (especially on the likes of the Transfer sheets!) but they aren't a N, R or A!

[Brother Tyler]

Technically speaking, topics announcing newly approved files in the Downloads section are "news" or "announcements" by any definition. They are not news about official GW (including FW, BL, etc.) products or events. They are not news about third party products. They are not announcements of forum rules changes/additions or events. They are news/announcements about files that are available for other players to download and enjoy.

 

This is one case where the use of tags would be inappropriate. Anyone wanting to see the files available for download simply has to go to the Downloads section by clicking on the tab at the top of the screen (or following the link in discussion topics). Using a "Download" (or similar) tag will pull a bunch of unnecessary discussion (announcement) topics in addition to the actual download pages; and since we purge topics when they get old, those additional search function returns serve no purpose and are nothing more than additional noise. Even if they did serve some search purpose (which they don't), we'd have to go back and edit an agreed upon tag into all of the extant downloads. Since such a tag doesn't add anything, we're not going to waste our time doing that. Simply put, if you want to see the downloads, go to the Downloads section.

 

In addition to adding no required search functionality (which is the purpose of the tags), imposing a tag requirement for such files limits other tags that might be used. Keep in mind that topics are limited to ten tags. Admittedly, I can't think of any downloads that require ten tags, but that doesn't mean that there won't be any in the future. Reducing the usable tags for a pointless tag doesn't serve any purpose.

 

And if we're going to ask for a tag (or other identifier) for newly approved downloadable files, should we impose similar tag (or other identifier) requirements to clearly identify all of the other categories of news? Some people don't care one bit about third party stuff, or books, or whatever other categories we can come up with. Also, what about the problem of most of the replies in the NRBA forum not being news, rumors, or announcements to begin with. Sure, a topic might be about a real thing, but the overwhelming majority of posts are nothing more than peoples' opinions (sometimes they're even related to the subject at hand), how they wish something else would be happening/done, how they wish the thing that is happening/done shouldn't be happening/done, etc. I see far more time being wasted clicking on topics with new posts only to see that there's no actual "news" being posted. I waste far more time looking at non-news replies in that forum than I do with the two clicks it requires to click on a file announcement and back out of it. Really, this is the first such download announcement since May of this year. You guys have spent at least ten times as much time participating in non-"news" replies in that forum.

 

What might be done is that a topic title element might be added (something like adding "- New Download" to the topic title) to make things clear when a file is approved for download. If we decide to do that, it will be an edit unless/until we figure out if we can make it an automated function of the software.

 

Keep in mind that the announcement topics are automatically created by the board software, with fields like the topic title auto-populated from the actual download page. So Ioldanach didn't create the Eldar Corsairs announcement post. The board did that when Grotsmasha approved the download. Including a "File" or "Download" in the actual download file's page name is unnecessary. So the only place where such an addition serves any purpose is in the NRBA announcement topic.

 

This isn't a definitive answer, mind you. Mods and admins will discuss the suggestion, evaluate its merits, and determine whether or not something should be done and what might be done.

[Dosjetka]

Since June, there has been a grand total of... 1 thread that has been a file upload thread. The previous occurrence was 16th May.

Ergo, this happens once in a blue moon and, in my mind, is not an issue.

[Panzer]

I also remember a period when we had such a new thread every few days or so. Now THAT was annoying.

[Brother Tyler]

=][= DECISION =][=

 

When a new download file is approved, the mods will edit the NRBA topic title to include "(new download)" to (hopefully) prevent confusion.

 

So if a download with a file name of Squat Kill Team is approved, the board software will create an announcement topic with the same title (Squat Kill Team). The mods/admins will then edit the topic title to read Squat Kill Team (new download).

 

Keep in mind that the announcement topic in the NRBA forum is created automatically by the board software when the download is approved, so there may be some lag between the topic appearing and the mods/admins editing the title.

[PeteySödes]

I know we addressed the naming a bit but to me I'm still a bit uncomfortable how easy it would be to mimic the format to something really untrustworthy.

 

Could we use an icon or some other Mod only thing besides the name to indicate it's "official" status? 

[Brother Tyler]

That could be mimicked, too.

 

If you don't trust the links in the NRBA announcement post, you can always go directly to the DOWNLOADS section via the tab at the top of the page. If a download announcement is legitimate, you'll see it near the top as a new file.

[PeteySödes]

Fair enough, I'm really paranoid about this stuff since its my RL job. Just spitballing to ensure our community stays safe. :)

[Joe]

I don't really see how that changes anything.

 

As far as I can see a fresh account with no posts can upload files to the website willy nilly. What's to stop someone creating a fresh account and uploading a ream of inappropriate content? It's not fair that the forums users should have to take that risk, nor is it practical for every upload being manually checked for inappropriate content/malware/etc by moderation staff.

 

Wait, why were the posts highlighting the issue of a one-day old account being able to post files willy nilly deleted? That they were posted here and not in the Suggestions sub-forum doesn't change the fact they were topically relevant whilst people were um'ing and ah'ing over whether or not to risk clicking the link.

 

Like, I appreciate that the thought process but nuking the posts entirely was overkill.

[Panzer]

I kinda think it would solve most problems if we had a subforum for News&Rumours and a separate subforum for forum internal stuff like Announcements and these uploads. Nobody should confuse these with some official GW/FW news then.

[Joe]

Precisely that. The ability to upload files to the forum for hosting should require a certain level of activity too.

[Tyriks]

The downloads already have to be approved, right? So the fear about new people uploading inappropriate content seems unfounded. The mods keep saying it has to be approved - I'm not sure if this includes manually checking every file or what, but if they're approving each file then how old the account is shouldn't matter. Should it?

[Dosjetka]

Aye, each file has to be reviewed and approved by a member of staff before it can be seen by Frater.

[Brother Tyler]

Fair enough, I'm really paranoid about this stuff since its my RL job. Just spitballing to ensure our community stays safe.

And a few of the mods/admins have some experience in that area, too. Believe me, we don't want malicious files any more than you do. That's part of the reason that new DOWNLOAD files are manually approved after being screened by a mod/admin. Another aspect of that screening/approval is ensuring that the submitted file is actually of use. This one (the Abyss Class) was in a fuzzy area. The member could just as easily have uploaded the image to their gallery and shared it via a discussion. Ultimately, it was approved as harmless, but potentially inspirational to someone in some way.

 

I kinda think it would solve most problems if we had a subforum for News&Rumours and a separate subforum for forum internal stuff like Announcements and these uploads. Nobody should confuse these with some official GW/FW news then.

An announcement is an announcement, whether it's an announcement of an official event, a new product, a rules change here, a new file to download, etc. We're not going to create forums for each type of announcement. The amount of time "wasted" by clicking on a topic about an announcement about a file download that is of no interest to a member is trivial when you look at all of the time spent clicking on all kinds of things. Adding the note that it is a file download to the title should be sufficient to warn off anyone that doesn't care about such things. Considerably more time is wasted by posting all of the knee-jerk reactions to rumors, wish-listing, non sequiturs, bellyachin', opinionating, correcting, speculating, and other posts that do nothing to further our site's mission statement. Here it is, as a reminder:

 

The Bolter & Chainsword exists to help people better enjoy and understand the Warhammer 40,000 hobby and games set in the Warhammer 40,000 universe through constructive discussion.

 

Files that are available in the DOWNLOADS section definitely contribute to that mission statement. Maybe they don't apply to everybody, but every file is submitted with the express purpose of helping others. Maybe that help is just entertainment (like the Abyss Class file that has sparked the latest round of outrage), maybe it's a tool others can use (like the Kill Team template that was recently posted, or the decals), maybe it's useful in other ways.

 

Rumors and speculation, on the other hand, are less helpful. They may help us to plan our purchases (or non-purchases), but most of the time it's just a South Park "rabble rabble rabble" exercise.

 

If we were as draconian with all announcements the way some of you want us to be with user submitted content, the NRBA would be a dead forum, with topics closed except when someone has something concrete to add.

 

Some of you are making a big mountain out of a molehill. Hell, it's not even a molehill. It's a leaf that fell off a tree onto the sidewalk in front of you. The only valid concern I've seen so far is that related to malicious files, and as we've shown, we have procedures in place to mitigate that risk.

 

Newly approved files in the DOWNLOADS section are announcements. Period. If you're not interested in them, ignore them. Someone else may be interested in them, so let them enjoy their hobby preferences without having to submit to yours.

[Brother Tyler]

As an update, the Downloads software has been adjusted so that the announcement topic will (should) automatically append the suffix "(B&C Downloads)" to the title of the announcement when a new file is uploaded. This won't require moderator/administrator editing - it is an automatic process now.