Upgrade kit for loyal and chaos Astartes

[slitth]

I always love when GW makes an upgrade kit for a chapter so you can make your custom force a little bit cooler.

 

But I am a little disappointed about the range of the high quality upgrade kit.

Sure GW started in the right place with the "big" chapters, like the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and now the Imperial Fists.

 

But what about the rest?

We do not need a big release for each army to get a upgrade kit.

 

If GW want the upgrade kit could be the big release.

Imagine how many Intercessors GW would sell if they release upgrade kits for White Scars, Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard.

That would probably be a really good month for Intercessors

 

And the same would go for chaos when/if they get the new line.

 

But enough of my rambling, what you do think?

[kombatwombat]

I’m amazed GW don’t do more upgrade kits. They just seem like such a no-brainer. They have very little design cost since they’re not designing new connection points just using an existing CAD design with new logos. They don’t occupy huge production space to interfere with other products as they’re small sprues. They sell like hot cakes because everybody wants their whole army to match (I for instance have at least a dozen Black Templar ones). I guess the problem must be tight profit margins since to make them sell they have to be reasonably cheap.

[Dark Bjoern]

I say they would not sell well enought. And that´s a shame.

Take a look at Chaos. I play at three different GS in Germany. One is 10km away from me, the other 40km and the third one 550km (every 4 week i´m there, when i´m visiting my parents).

Actual all i see is DG and TS. Both dexes are very competive while C:CSM is not. I haven´t seen a BL or IW army for years. At best one guy who play WE. For him that´s Khârn, 3x10 cultists and the rest are Khorne daemons

I think the main reason is that most people want to be competive. They participate in tournaments and so they build their armies. It´s okay, it is "their" hobby. But for the hobby in general it´s a disaster. They´re limiting themself. In all three GS it´s the same. "hey take a look at those minis, they look fantastic." "Yeah, but gamewise they´re crap. I´ll will buy more of XYZ, they´re better!" The "rule of cool" doesn´t count much. Money is short and so most people concentrate on the essential.

The consequence is that some things like CSM upgrade kits will not come. They will not sell well enought cause CSM don´t sell well enought. GW compared how many C:DG/TS are sold and how many C:CSM are sold and that has a direct influence what will be produced. 

[Sete]

There are rumours that all named chapters will have some.

CF, IF and Ultras are done...

[Closet Skeleton]

Chaos upgrade kits won't come because of the state of the chaos plastics, the old Iron Warriors and Night Lords stuff is still on sale so why make new versions. If new Chaos marines come out (no chosen kit after years of Dark Vengeance makes me dubious the Blackstone Fortress guys mean anything) I'm sure we'll see upgrade sprues.

[Panzer]

GW doesn't focus on upgrade kits because they don't have to. White Scars players will buy Intercessors whether there is an upgrade kit or not. Same goes for the other chapters. And then there are many who play custom chapter or some lesser known successor chapter. GW releasing upgrade kits will barely increase their sales I'd say.

[MARK0SIAN]

The problem with upgrade sprues for everyone is that they’ve got to be worth it, both for GW and the customers. It’s very difficult to hit that sweet spot where the kit is detailed and comprehensive enough to feel worthwhile for the customers but also makes enough profit for GW.

 

The Black Templars upgrade kit is the perfect example, it’s an amazing kit that lets you customise loads of models including land raiders and rhinos. It sells in profitable quantities not just because it’s a great kit though, it’s because BT have a huge fan base.

 

Now if you took the same quality kit for Iron Hands or White scars (nothing against those armies) I doubt they’d sell enough to be profitable as their fan base is much smaller. If you reduced the quality of the upgrade sprue the customer would then see less value in it and GW will still have to charge a certain amount for them and so less people will buy it.

 

For that reason, I’d be surprised if we saw upgrade kits for lots more sub-factions (including Chaos) or if we did they wouldn’t be particularly detailed kits, probably just shoulder pads and a few odd helmets.

[Halandaar]

People playing Salamanders/White Scars/whatever are going to buy Intercessors if they want to field them regardless of whether or not they have an upgrade sprue, as has always been the case.

 

Anyway, we heard recently that the initial upgrade sprues have only just broken even, and if it's taking the best part of a year for that to happen for the most popular chapters, you can see why GW isn't going all-out to produce them for the less played ones.

[apologist]

As Kombatwombat says, from a production and manufacturing point of view, they look so simple. However, from a sales and marketing point of view, it may be a case of maximising profit. Releasing upgrade sprues alongside a larger release, as we saw for the 'big' Chapters, likely sees a mutual benefit between products. 

 

Releasing them without much fanfare, or for less popular factions, or to go with less popular units – like the Genestealer cult upgrade sprue, for example – might see them take longer to recoup.

 

I guess it must be quite difficult for the sales team to analyse how these sprues are purchased – does the sale of one upgrade sprue represent a sale of another box, or another two boxes? Does their presence convince some buyers to make a purchase that they otherwise wouldn't? Does it cannibalise sales, by allowing modellers to spend their disposable cash on a smaller impulse purchase than a bigger box?

 

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On a personal level, I'd love to see more upgrade sprues; and for more than just Space Marines. Ork clan sprues, Eldar craftworld sprues, Imperial Guard regiment sprues... these'd all make for such wonderful diversity in the armies we see.

 

However, perhaps it's a blessing in disguise. Some now-standalone factions – Death Guard, Grey Knights, Thousand Sons etc. – might otherwise have simply been upgrade sprues. GW's willingness to take a punt on factions like this, with all the pomp and impact of a whole faction coming out of the blue, may rely on them feeling a groundswell of support has appeared that an upgrade sprue might have 'lanced'.

 

Look at Black Templars or old Space Wolf upgrades, for examples that might have burnt GW's fingers. Using a different model of upgrade – simultaneously more ambitious (by being a large multi-sprue kit) and more limited (coming out in isolation) – the two are generally seen as being relative failures in terms of sales. The end result for Space Wolves, always a popular army, was that GW remained confident enough to try another model of upgrade – the small squad upgrade sprue that accompanied a larger release.

 

For the more niche Black Templars, meanwhile, the initial box upgrade languished. Even the most ZEALOUS players had an upper limit of the amount of upgrade boxes they'd buy (since the boxes provided sufficient bits for a whole army, rather than a squad), and they weren't both relatively expensive and isolated: enough to convince some new players to not take the punt.

 

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+ Ninja EDIT +

MARK0SIAN's point about Black Templars vs Iron Hands/ White Scars is interesting; but to me it feels a bit chicken and egg. Until the Templar sprue was out, I don't think they were much more popular than the non-'Big' Chapters. However, once they had a kit, every sale of a core marine kit that went with a Black Templar sprue could be logged as a BT sale, rather than a generic SM sale – effectively what Halandaar is saying.

[MARK0SIAN]

It’s also a timing issue. They should’ve had upgrade sprues right from the start, that way they’d have sold way more when people bought their initial Primaris force. Think how many they’d have sold when people first started buying Primaris. Now most people have a lot of the Primaris models they need and can’t use the upgrade kits on them.

[DuskRaider]

Perhaps if they were widely released in a clampack or something and not just webstore exclusive or in a box with the base model they would sell better. Putting them in front of the customer at your FLGS on a spending spree would probably result in decent sales, especially now with GW releasing smaller games where one can build a... say... Black Templar or Night Lords Kill Team without breaking the bank on a million different options or tanks. 

[Jukkiz]

The upgrade kits of "old" marines barely just covered their costs not long ago. Primaris are still slowly paying themselves back.

The making, selling and profit are all different. The kits themselves need specific molds and they cost alot to make and maintain.

[Excessus]

If you look at valrak's video about the IF box, there is an IF upgrade sprue with heads, pads, a fist and some bits and bobs. It'll most likely be released by itself at some point.

[Sete]

I seriously doubt the BT upgrade sprue just paid itself now.

It has been in the market for a long time, way more than the small kits for UM, BA, SW, and DA.

[Jukkiz]

I seriously doubt the BT upgrade sprue just paid itself now.

It has been in the market for a long time, way more than the small kits for UM, BA, SW, and DA.

Didn´t that come out with 3,5/4ed templars codex?

[Sete]

I started at the end of 5th edition and the kits were old back then lol

Its a decade old at least.

[Marshal Rohr]

Where are you guys getting information about sales for upgrade sprues?

[DuskRaider]

I started at the end of 5th edition and the kits were old back then lol

Its a decade old at least.

I believe it came out with the 3rd War for Armageddon campaign.

[Lord Marshal]

 

I started at the end of 5th edition and the kits were old back then lol

Its a decade old at least.

I believe it came out with the 3rd War for Armageddon campaign.

 

 

They came out alongside the standalone Black Templar codex in 4th. They bundled them with Tactical Squads and sold them on shelves as Crusader Squads boxes.

 

After a few runs they made the upgrade sprue a separate, direct order only item. They did the same thing when Dark Angels got their own book in 5th.

[Panzer]

Where are you guys getting information about sales for upgrade sprues?

 

It's mostly an echo chamber. One guy said that he got told they just paid themselves a few days ago and ever since then it gets repeated by some others. There hasn't been definite proof of it being true so far.

[Lord Marshal]

 

Where are you guys getting information about sales for upgrade sprues?

 

It's mostly an echo chamber. One guy said that he got told they just paid themselves a few days ago and ever since then it gets repeated by some others. There hasn't been definite proof of it being true so far.

 

 

Games Workshop are still all about those profits. Considering how many upgrade kits have been released over the years, I seriously doubt GW would have kept producing different versions over the years if they weren't making a profit of those that came before.

 

Dark Angels received an upgrade kit alongside their standalone Codex. It was several years before that Black Templars had the same treatment. Now do we really think GW would have done that if the BT upgrades hadn't sold well?

[Guest MistaGav]

I'd prefer an upgrade sprue for primaris that actually added weapon options for sergeants, lieutenants and captains rather than small trinkets and shoulder pads.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

I started at the end of 5th edition and the kits were old back then lol

Its a decade old at least.

I believe it came out with the 3rd War for Armageddon campaign.

 

 

They came out alongside the standalone Black Templar codex in 4th. They bundled them with Tactical Squads and sold them on shelves as Crusader Squads boxes.

 

After a few runs they made the upgrade sprue a separate, direct order only item. They did the same thing when Dark Angels got their own book in 5th.

 

 

The Black Templar upgrade box wasn't direct order only, I've picked it up from independent stockists. Officially its web exclusive now but like some other such items there's still the odd one left in a nearby to me GW or at least there was earlier in the year.

 

 

 

Games Workshop are still all about those profits. Considering how many upgrade kits have been released over the years, I seriously doubt GW would have kept producing different versions over the years if they weren't making a profit of those that came before.

 

 

Ranges have to be profitable, individual items do not. Character models aren't that profitable because nobody buys duplicates of them but they don't remove them from the game to make only units playable. Instead they inflate the price or create artificial demand by making them limited release.

[Halandaar]

I'm pretty sure we are talking about the £8 chapter upgrade packs that came out in 6th/7th Edition and not the much older, much bigger Black Templar and Ravenwing upgrade sprues.

 

In some respects it's not entirely surprising they only just broke even, because there were very few new models to actually use them with (unless starting an army from scratch), and a lot of the time they were bundled into other sets for a token £1 or £2 markup.

[Khornestar]

This niche is better served by 3rd parties, IMO. And again, IMO, it's only lately that a relatively small number of studios/shops are producing quality fit for modern sculpts. Stuff on shapeways, especially, is in generally pretty badass - but also quite expensive.

 

I'm sure many people prefer to buy GW products directly from GW, but pretty much most of the options people would want are currently out there from other companies.