What do you think about 5 pts guardsmen?

[MrZakalwe]

All imperial guard vehicles aside from the sentinel (which now turn 1 deepstrike isn't a thing have no niche anyway) can completely hide an officer from LoS.

[Tirak]

All imperial guard vehicles aside from the sentinel (which now turn 1 deepstrike isn't a thing have no niche anyway) can completely hide an officer from LoS.

And let me tell ya, an officer hiding behind a Leman Russ is doing so much ordering.

[Trickstick]

All imperial guard vehicles aside from the sentinel (which now turn 1 deepstrike isn't a thing have no niche anyway) can completely hide an officer from LoS.

 

Sentinels have the niche of cheap brigade fodder. The armoured sentinel is surprisingly resilient against non-at fire power, which is usually pointed at heavier vehicles anyway. I like the Tallarn lascannon version, as it can be mobile and not lose firepower.

[MrZakalwe]

Then rejoice because the Guard were blessed with the Hellhound which is normally lower than Pask and tank commanders on the target priority and tends to move up between your screen units and cannot kill the commander with it's potential death explosion!

 

Does anybody in this thread genuinely think Guard are weak at the moment?

[Tirak]

Then rejoice because the Guard were blessed with the Hellhound which is normally lower than Pask and tank commanders on the target priority and tends to move up between your screen units and cannot kill the commander with it's potential death explosion!

 

Does anybody in this thread genuinely think Guard are weak at the moment?

At 5 point guardsmen? Yes.

[Trickstick]

Then rejoice because the Guard were blessed with the Hellhound which is normally lower than Pask and tank commanders on the target priority and tends to move up between your screen units and cannot kill the commander with it's potential death explosion!

 

Does anybody in this thread genuinely think Guard are weak at the moment?

 

They are double the points though, and sometimes I want those points for a tempestus battalion or something. I guess you could use artemia pattern but I am convinced that their points are a mistake and don't like using them.

 

I don't think Guard are weak but I think a points change is a band aid for a different problem. Personally, I would tackle CP by making the Warlord's faction the primary faction, and non-primary detachments get reduced cp. Half or something.

[sairence]

Not for a second. :D

[Lord Marshal]

Games Workshop have made it apparent they've no intention of nerfing soup. This is just a token gesture to appease people's complaints that only hurts Mono-Guard, but can still put their hands up and go "S-see! We're listening to your concerns!".

Although sometimes I doubt the same people who constantly complain about Guard will be happy until single a Tactical Marine is capable of single handedly wiping out an Infantry Squad because "muh super human badass lore."

[mertbl]

In that same vein, I'm convinced after reading other forums and FB that 90% of the complaints are from people that dont play or potentially have never played.

 

Games Workshop have made it apparent they've no intention of nerfing soup. This is just a token gesture to appease people's complaints that only hurts Mono-Guard, but can still put their hands up and go "S-see! We're listening to your concerns!".

 

Although sometimes I doubt the same people who constantly complain about Guard will be happy until single a Tactical Marine is capable of single handedly wiping out an Infantry Squad because "muh super human badass lore."

[duz_]

You forgot the ones who do complain and still take the 32 for their main detachment .... :ermm:

[Chris521]

While I'd rather they stayed 4 points, I've long since resigned myself to the likelihood of 5 points guardsman.  Though it's not all bad.  Pretty much the longest standing chapter approved rumor says that the -1 to hit traits are being changed  (to some kind of cover bonus?).  One of the guards biggest weaknesses going away would offset much of the 5 point nerf.  Frankly, I'm more worried about the other things they could nerf.  While it's a sample size of 1, we all know that chapter approved doesn't have an amazing track record for sensible point changes.

[Shamansky]

I don't think that the Guard is weak. I think the Guard doesn't deserve all those nerfs we get every single FAQ and CA because of soup armies.

[Diagramdude]

Infantry to 5ppm was inevitable when they bumped conscripts to 4ppm.

 

So now it will be 4/5 instead of the old 3/4, because the current 4/4 is just absurd. Conscript and infantry squad should not be the same ppm.

[Chris521]

I also think there is a good chance that we may get the news tomorrow since they are going to be previewing some imperial formations.  Since guardsman cost is a rather hot topic, I think they may show the infantry formation while releasing the new cost.

[Shamansky]

While I'd rather they stayed 4 points, I've long since resigned myself to the likelihood of 5 points guardsman.  Though it's not all bad.  Pretty much the longest standing chapter approved rumor says that the -1 to hit traits are being changed  (to some kind of cover bonus?).  One of the guards biggest weaknesses going away would offset much of the 5 point nerf.  Frankly, I'm more worried about the other things they could nerf.  While it's a sample size of 1, we all know that chapter approved doesn't have an amazing track record for sensible point changes.

Looks like they are going to change cover bonus into -1 to hit for all. Nice move GeeDumbs! 

[Phubar]

Wooah! So flamers will be "ignore cover" again!!

[domsto]

Wooah! So flamers will be "ignore cover" again!!

That's on way to see things

all i thought was, well now my whole army won't hit anything anymore

[mertbl]

I dont believe the-1 thing. I dont see why you'd do auto hitting orks if you were going to get rid of -1 to hit.

[MrZakalwe]

Looks like they are going to change cover bonus into -1 to hit for all. Nice move GeeDumbs!

[Pikachu face meme]

[NatBrannigan]

It's the other way round isn't it? Moving the -1 to hit to a +1 cover save?

 

And Guard aren't weak, but they're not the strongest so I don't understand why Infantry Squads are being targeted like this? It's been the same since the start of 8th. Can't Guard just be left as a decent army? Not great, not terrible, is it really too much to ask!? Oh woe is me etc etc

[CaptainMarsh]

5 PPM for a Guardsmen will not impact any of my lists in a meaningful way. Yes I understand that I am 'losing' 60-120 points depending on what list I am running because of the change, but I've often felt like I could run 1750 and run over my opponents in a 2k game anyway. This is a harmful change to Guard but not one I see as crippling or catastrophic. It is vexing because the changes are happening for causes outside of a Guard army- that much is intensely frustrating. 

[Tirak]

5 PPM for a Guardsmen will not impact any of my lists in a meaningful way. Yes I understand that I am 'losing' 60-120 points depending on what list I am running because of the change, but I've often felt like I could run 1750 and run over my opponents in a 2k game anyway. This is a harmful change to Guard but not one I see as crippling or catastrophic. It is vexing because the changes are happening for causes outside of a Guard army- that much is intensely frustrating. 

 

If you play a non standard list this change is crippling. I like to run lists with flyers because I'm a bit of a sky nut, but with the pounding aircraft and their weapons got last year and now this, I won't be able to support any meaningful skyforce. My standard armies all are going to have to lose either significant portions of the screen or losing a heavy support choice. Given how tight the games can be at my club, that's going to cripple my army.

[Shamansky]

Considering my last tornament list, i really don't know what i would drop. It was already minimal equipment list.

And now Infantry squad with no equipment is equal to Elysian SWS with 3 plasmaguns that can aerial drop

[major higgins]

Any news for any change for DKoK??

[Imperator Deus]

Meh. If the aim is lots of bodies, Conscripts will likely stay at 4 points. So you can still get your 60 lasguns in tshirts for the same price as now.

 

Guardsmen are the most cost-effective troops choice in the game in my view. There is simply so much flexibility in what they can down with various buffs and doctrines. 1 point more isn't going to change that.

 

It's true that Conscripts are still 4 ppm, but they only hit on 5+ base, and don't have access to any other equipment. They simply aren't as effective as regular Guardsmen. I think 5ppm is a very bad idea. I tend to play infantry heavy, so It could be a struggle to find those points in my lists from now on. As multiple people have already said in this thread and others going back to the dawn of 8th edition, this is especially egregious because it isn't to address any issues with the AM codex, this is an attempt to address problems created by soup lists. Unfortunately, like all of the other nerfs that came before, it does nothing to fix the wider CP issues or the abuses that are happening in soup lists.