Are bikes good?

[Firepower]

As the title suggests, I'm curious how SM Bikes perform on the tabletop.  What roles do they perform best, in what quantity, and how well?  What sort of army are they most conducive to, i.e. gunline, assault, midfield control?  This is without regard to Chapter Tactics in particular, but I figured I'd best consult the experts. ;)

[Panzer]

They are okay in friendly matches I guess.

What they do good? Being fast.

What do they decently? Having some special weapons and some Bolter Dakka.

What do they badly? Killing stuff in melee and climbing ruins.

 

Best use of Bikers I have seen so far is with Chaos Renegades since they can advance&charge with them. Use them to tie up enemy shooty units as fast as possible and hope they survive long enough to do so since T5 W2 Sv3+ is not that durable (yesterday my Crisis Suits with T5 W3 Sv2+/3+ got easily shot off the board by basic Skitarii infantry).

Loyalists are better off using Scout Bikes imo.

[domsto]

Simple Answer

No.

I played mine yesterday and they died like flys witout killing anything.

Bikes lack Durability, damage output in CC/Shooting and they hardly ever get cover or can't move trow terrain and so on.

The only thing bikes are good in is being fast, so objective grabbing is easy with them.

[Firepower]

Well, that's disheartening.  I've employed 1 squad now and then, and they routinely get annihilated, but I attributed that to my lack of caution with and support for the unit.  A Marshal on a bike, by contrast, has quite a few honors to his name.

[Panzer]

Well characters are characters. It's not the Bike that makes Bike units bad the same as it's not the Jump Pack that makes Assault Marines bad. :D

[Firepower]

True true.  The Marshal was most impressive for enduring many rounds of combat against heavy hitter, staying stuck in with a unit of Cataphractii turn after turn, chopping them down one at a time.  By contrast, a unit of 4 easily finds itself blasted off the table in one round of shooting.  However I really do need to underline that I probably didn't use them well or in an appropriate list :teehee:

 

The Marshal can also zip around with the Templar relic and move a 9 inch bubble of rerolls wherever you need it, whenever you need it.  Not a Scars bonus, obviously, but I like to toot my Templar horn on those rare occasions where I can :D

 

Anyway, is there anything in C:SM that does the intended work of Bike squads better?  Rapid deployment dakka and/or special weapons, specifically.  They pretty clearly aren't geared directly towards melee, beyond tarpitting something or reinforcing a unit that's stuck in already.  This still chafes me, because all my guys are modeled with Lances from the days that you could deck the squad in power weapons :(  The one unit that comes to mind is Inceptors.  They aren't as fast, arguably not as durable, but hit harder.  There are also Landspeeders, but until they get a massive point reduction (not sure the one rumored to be in CA is enough) they're pointless.

[Indefragable]

I’ve muddled around with Bikes a bit in 8th, and really they are like so many other units in the current state of 8th: you have to have a plan for them and put time and effort into executing that plan.

 

As others have stated, bikes’ best attribute is being reliably fast. That means either Advancing to grab objectives, or ducking and weaving out of sight until you can spring into action.

 

My last theoryhammer with my White Scars (before parting with them, <tear>) involved Rhinos as LoS blockers and bike squads riding behind them in order to pounce once further up the field.

[Paulochromis]

I think for any army with a contingent that wants to move up-field, you need long range fire support to keep the enemy occupied. Problem is that bikes are not melee-oriented (unless we're talking characters, veterans or Black Knights), so once they do get up field, they lack the ability to consistently consolidate from one engagement to the next to stay untargetted. You need a distraction unit (or two) as well as fire support.

In days of yore, Thunderfire cannons were good fire support with Sternguard podding in as a distraction. But TFCs don't seem popular at the moment, and pods are pretty steep.

[Dumah]

Does the new Beta rule, Bolter Discipline, make bikes any more viable than before? Maybe as a mid-range harassing unit? I'm thinking they may still be too fragile for what they give.

[RolandTHTG]

I think it does, especially because it gives you more standoff range. On a bike, the twin bolters fire 4 shots up to 24, where previously you needed to get within 12'' and a possible countercharge, to get that number of shots. 

You now have more shots at a longer range and have them consistently. I'm not sure it makes us Good, but for the first time in 8th I think I'll try out my all-bike army. 

[FabulousRex]

If you take a Stormbolter Sgt, and 0 special weapons, they could do work clearing chaff. 71pts gets you 3 bikes with 16 shots at range. Keep the squad small and stick n move. Present bigger threats, and let the Bikes attack flanks.

 

Best thing you can do is to keep your bikes alive the first 2 turns, they can dominate in the late game with mobility.

[GreyCrow]

Bikes should be played as a straight upgrade over the Tactical Squad.

 

They’re not a specialist unit nor can they be kitted as such.

 

What they have though is the MEQ stat line with 2x W, +1 T, x2 movement and can take +1 more special weapon.

They just lack Defenders of Humanity.

[Ishagu]

Simple Answer

No.

I played mine yesterday and they died like flys witout killing anything.

Bikes lack Durability, damage output in CC/Shooting and they hardly ever get cover or can't move trow terrain and so on.

The only thing bikes are good in is being fast, so objective grabbing is easy with them.

How many bikes?

 

I ask this because EVERYTHING dies if an opponent focuses on it. In the modern 40k there are no invincible or hyper durable units (Even my Knight Castellan with a 3++ is dismantled in one turn by Eldar after a few psychic powers), and the name of the game is redundancy.

 

One of my friends took a single squad of 5 Plague Marines into a game. Those 5 models were removed when they were hit by a lot of firepower from a 500 point unit. After they were removed my friend said: "Plague Marines are rubbish!" Why? Because a 100 point unit was destroyed by a 500 point unit? Context is everything.

 

Bikes are ok. They don't have fly which limits them somewhat as flying grants some very useful rules but the Bolter Buff is great for them. Scout bikes are excellent for their cost.

[Dumah]

I've been slowly coming to the realization that the new Crimson Fists rules better represent a Space Marine Bike force than the ordu of Jaghatai... A sad state of affairs!

 

Bikes should be played as a straight upgrade over the Tactical Squad.

They’re not a specialist unit nor can they be kitted as such.

What they have though is the MEQ stat line with 2x W, +1 T, x2 movement and can take +1 more special weapon.
They just lack Defenders of Humanity.

 

As pointed out above, one of the glaring drawbacks of Bikes is the lack of Objective Secured. And guess what - Crimson Fists do it better! One of their WL traits gives all bikes/dreads/infantry Defenders of Humanity/Objective Secured, allowing for an all bike force without sacrificing scoring potential. Doesn't that sound more like something suited to the Scars?

 

And let's not forget the Chapter tactic itself: +1 to hit against enemy units of twice or more models. Combined with the Bolter Discipline Beta Rule, this lends itself well to MSU bike squads as harrasser units. "But what about special or  heavy weapons?" you might ask. Well, it just so happens that +1 to hit completely nullifies the to hit penalty of advancing and firing assault weapons or moving and firing Heavy Weapons - and that's not even all! There's yet another way to add  +1 to hit via Stratagem when targeting enemy characters (and did I mention it's only 1 CP?). Doesn't that sound nice for a mobile army?

 

Good for Pedro and his boys, I suppose. But what about the Scars? Am I the only one who smells the injustice and yearns for something better come Vigilus Part 2? I don't hold out much hope for anything beyond that; I assume WD will only focus on factions that lack their own existing rules. Perhaps an "ambiguous progenitor" chapter is called for - Crimson Scars anyone?

 

/end rant

[Panzer]

Again just because White Scars like bikes it doesn't mean you should play a bike list. White Scars use the full range of units available to them regularly, including slow stuff like Terminators.

[Dumah]

I'm well aware that's the case, I'm simply pointing out that a chapter with no known preference for mounted warfare benefits far more in that regard than the one that is known for being bike enthusiasts. For some of us, that's a core reason behind liking the White Scars and we shouldn't have to look elsewhere to play a biker army.

[Claws and Effect]

*shrug*

 

Yep, Crimson Fists are better on bikes than White Scars.

 

And White Scars are better with jump packs than Raven Guard.

 

I sometimes think GW doesn't pay attention to their own lore.

[Zebulon]

I like the sound of these Crimson Scars tbh. Tell us more, Dumah?!

 

You could base them on the historical Spanish Jinetes - they operated a hit-and-run tactic which befits a Scars Successor...

[MegaVolt87]

I loved my MM attack bikes in past editions, a friend was mad for SW wolf guard bikers. Do RG bikers get the -1 to hit for them? Over on mini wargaming Vito plays WS bikers focused, they seem not to do that great in the battle reports, might be his list, no idea. 

[Johanhgg]

Things change, rules change.

 

Bikes are kinda in a bad spot i guess for white scars. Personally i run bikes anyway since its cool