Sisters Preview

[taikishi]

I wish I had your level of conviction. It seems that 8th Edition, Age of Sigmar, 5E L5R, 5E D&D and FFG LCG L5R were all enough to get me to stop playing those games... and then I'm finding myself playing WoW and XIV less and less as well. :(

[dracpanzer]

As more comes to light, don't build your list to take advantage of AoF and think OoBR, OoVH, OoSR with AoF sprinkled when possible to give a touch of a bonus. What strength is their in the Strategems, SoF buffs and point reductions that we are picking up?

 

Has anyone seen whether the Imagifer is gone now that we have Simulacrum as a squad upgrade we won't be using? Seems pretty pointless now. Celestines 4+ to get an additional AoF, Warlord Canoness gets the +1 to SoF seems like our logicial starting point unless you just don't want our Angel flying about.

 

For me I'm taking her because she is iconic and it's not like we're blowing up on the number of HQ choices we get anyways. Mind you I don't have the Beta-dex or all the info, but rolling a full squad of Repentia into a Knight with a Priest and Mistriess (no idea what they got for rules in the Beta) got some damage in with the charge, and wrecked the thing when it went to stomp them with mortal wounds from the stratagem.

 

I'm sure we din't play it correctly without all the info, but they might just get Knights to not stomp them in close combat.

[grimsanity]

Any rumors on repressors? Points, can we still shoot out of them? These changes really messed up my list and tactics. If they nerf repressors then I'm in horrible shape and may shelf my sisters till the final codex is released.

[Aqui]

Any rumors on repressors? Points, can we still shoot out of them? These changes really messed up my list and tactics. If they nerf repressors then I'm in horrible shape and may shelf my sisters till the final codex is released.

It's a FW unit, so it'll probably remain as an Index unit, unless stated otherwise.

[taikishi]

Rewatching StrikingScorpion82 now.

 

Jacobus: 50 points/PL 3, Redeemer is now 18" range but +1S within 9". Lost 2D on 6+ to-wound. Counts as a Missionary (one per detachment in battle-forged army). Gained Word of the Emperor:

-Roll a die each time a friendly Adeptus Ministorum model within 6" of this model flees. On a 4+, the model doesn't flee.

 

Missionaries: No mention of being able to change gear but doesn't mean they can't.

 

Repentia: 15 points

 

Dailogus: 30 points/PL 2. Allows re-rolls of failed Faith tests for Sororitas units in addition to +1Ld for friendly Sororitas units w/in 6".

 

Arco-Flaggelants/DCA/Crusaders: Don't take up a slot in a battle-forged army if the detachment includes any Ministorum Priests.

 

Crusaders are 13

 

Imagifiers are removed from the army list.

[Montford]

Do Hospitallers still have to make a 4+ in order to attempt healing, or can they just roll without having to pass that test?

[ERJAK]

I had a thought.

 

WHY IS THE SHOOTING AOF +1 TO HIT?! HALF OF OUR WEAPONS ARE FLAMERS!

 

WHO MADE THIS PIECE OF GARBAGE?

 

For dracpanzer, almost all of the stratagems revolve around acts of faith. The only ones that don't are the stormbolter one, the arcoflag one and a couple of terrible ones.

[Mekhitar]

Lol, that was my first thought. And I wondered why we didn’t get s flamer specific strat - say, ignores cover; or an overwatch strat like the old wall of death. :)

 

Do we know the points cost of missionaries?

And they have the tau commander rule...?

[taikishi]

Do Hospitallers still have to make a 4+ in order to attempt healing, or can they just roll without having to pass that test?

 

I imagine it's still roll. I'm watching EgoQueenAlexis' review right now.

 

Two things she's brought up so far:

1. Geminae are no longer characters

2. Apparently an additional model in the Celestian squad can take a melee weapon and they can take 3 special weapons. They might be worthwhile for a bodyguard for Celestine... with some work.

3. Hospitallers have not changed so still have to roll to use them.

 

Edit: StrikingScorpion doesn't mention the 3rd special; it's possible she meant the 3rd special was on the Superior. He glossed over melee weapon, but I'm not sure if he was reading off the unit entry or reading off the Superior when he did so.

[Montford]

 

Do Hospitallers still have to make a 4+ in order to attempt healing, or can they just roll without having to pass that test?

 

I imagine it's still roll. I'm watching EgoQueenAlexis' review right now.

 

Two things she's brought up so far:

1. Geminae are no longer characters

2. Apparently an additional model in the Celestian squad can take a melee weapon and they can take 3 special weapons. They might be worthwhile for a bodyguard for Celestine... with some work.

3. Hospitallers have not changed so still have to roll to use them.

 

 

Darn it.

 

Thank you for the quick reply! :)

[taikishi]

Lol, that was my first thought. And I wondered why we didn’t get s flamer specific strat - say, ignores cover; or an overwatch strat like the old wall of death.

 

Do we know the points cost of missionaries?

And they have the tau commander rule...?

 

Just took one last look at StrikingScorpion's video.

 

Missionaries are 35 points, Preachers are 25 points. Missionaries have Word of the Emperor like Jacobus does, it doesn't look like either Preachers or Missionaries can take wargear options and their stat lines were the exact same.

[ERJAK]

 

 

Do Hospitallers still have to make a 4+ in order to attempt healing, or can they just roll without having to pass that test?

I imagine it's still roll. I'm watching EgoQueenAlexis' review right now.

 

Two things she's brought up so far:

1. Geminae are no longer characters

2. Apparently an additional model in the Celestian squad can take a melee weapon and they can take 3 special weapons. They might be worthwhile for a bodyguard for Celestine... with some work.

3. Hospitallers have not changed so still have to roll to use them.

 

Edit: StrikingScorpion doesn't mention the 3rd special; it's possible she meant the 3rd special was on the Superior. He glossed over melee weapon, but I'm not sure if he was reading off the unit entry or reading off the Superior when he did so.

That make Gemini go from terrible, to honestly, genuinely worthless. They're the worst unit in the game, bar none. I'd rather take servitors.

 

Every time I check back in it's some new, fresh hell.

[Mekhitar]

You can take them and give your opponents free kill points? I assume geminae are 1-2 a unt only.

[taikishi]

I'm not sure Alexis is right; I'm looking at Striking Scorpion's video one more time and I THINK I see the Character keyword on the bottom but the way he's holding the page I can't actually tell for certain.

[ERJAK]

I'm not sure Alexis is right; I'm looking at Striking Scorpion's video one more time and I THINK I see the Character keyword on the bottom but the way he's holding the page I can't actually tell for certain.

I mean..then they wouldn't be the worst unit in the game...for sure at least. They'd definitely still be in contention though.

[Atrus]

Canoness with the make SoF a 5++.

Give cannoness the Book of Saint Lucy for 9" aura.

Keep Celestine nearby for +1 to SoF.

 

Sister infantry in 6-9" are looking at a 4++ to 5++ in the open. Sister blobs with 3+/4++(5++) sounds nice. Seraphim in there get 3++. Add in that order with the 6+++ and sisters can tank a reasonable amount of damage.

Hand of the emperor on cannoness and use vessel to get that little extra move when advancing to try and get across the board.

 

All sounds cool on paper. How its plays out on the table is...theyre still only T3 and die easy even to flashlights.

 

Obviously gw wants us to horde/blob horde.

 

No flamers stratagem makes me sad. That line from the community page of "its more than running up and flaming" now genuinely makes me mad...well, madder, because that line already enraged me.

 

As for the vessels being said to apply to vehicles. Lets not hold our breath. Guarantee that will be fixed to exclude vehicles in the very first faq.

[Beams]

Index Repentia with a Mistress and +1 attack from a priest had something like a 3% chance to kill two dreadnoughts in close combat, without AoF.

 

So, assuming OoBR, +1 attack from a priest, and the chance to use a 5+ AoF, they will certainly have a good chance to kill a knight. I wont run a simulation until I'm 100% sure of their stats, but they also suffered from the same thing as the Exorcist -- they had much higher potential dage than their equivalents (Death cults) but had a lower average due to a high chance of doing nothing (lower amount of attacks + lower chance to hit + higher damage creates a early spike but if everything goes above average, it goes really above average)

 

So I imagine OoBR Repentia will be worth every penny of that 15, since they will be Str 8, Ap-2 D2 with 3 or 4 attacks each, hitting on 4's, rerolling if near a Mistress/Cannoness?

[Mekhitar]

AoF in vehicles only helps the exorcist with that one act. Mostly it doesn’t affect things (like immolators) anyway.

[Mekhitar]

9 repentia attacking twice will do 24 dmg to a knight with a 3+. This is without rerolls or the strat that helps you would. (Is it +1 to wd or reroll 1s to wd?)

 

Of course the knight will cut in and kill some, but...

[dracpanzer]

Isn't there a stratagem that allows Repentia to cause a mortal wound when slain in melee? Sorry if I'm way off, been a hectic day.

[CrusherJoe]

Couple of things.

 

I have a file with notes from every source I could find that I'm pretty sure is an extensive version of the beta "Codex". I'm highly confident there's no surprises lurking in the release of CA for me as far as Sisters are concerned. I would post it here but it includes points values and I'm pretty sure that's a violation. CAN I DO A COPYPASTA OF MY NOTES or should I not? I want to do this so everyone here can make an informed decision with all the info in one place about this...this...beta codex.

 

Having said that, I think our only recourse is to take advantage of the "feedback" that GW evidently wants from us. I'm not even sure where to send this feedback. To that end, I made this post on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page, the text of which I am copying here so everyone can see it:

 

"I apologize in advance for all this.

Sweet giminy geebuz. You have ONE JOB, guys. ONE. That job consisted of TWO tasks: "1. Don't jack up Celestine & The Wonder Twins. 2. Don't make Acts of Faith *worse*."

I hate to say it.

I don't *want* to say it -- I really don't!

But Warhammer 40,000 (okay technically no one on the web page but it's the only hope I have for getting noticed): 

You have failed this cit...er...job. Tasks. Whatever.

I've waited for almost 12 hours before saying anything, as I didn't want raw emotion to drive or derail my ability to be professional and courteous. This beta codex has been hyped up -- and I really, REALLY didn't want to get hyped up, because let's face it -- the track record with Sisters isn't what you'd call "good" or "positive". But I allowed myself to feel hope. I see all the CANDY that was passed out to Dark Eldar, and then the...man, I don't even have words to describe the BROKENNESS of the Ork codex, I really don't. But after those long-ignored factions got such love I allowed myself to feel hope that maybe, just maybe the beta codex would have something like the candy and toys that were passed out to DE and Orks.

...and I shouldn't have, because as we all KNOW -- especially where a good Sisters codex is concerned, evidently -- hope is the first step to disappointment.

Where are we supposed to send our feedback? Is there a special email address we're supposed to use? I can only hope there will be enough feedback and we can course-correct this before it's too late."

 

If you really, honestly and truly care about the future of our beloved Sisters, please comment on my comment and let our voices be heard. This beta codex is a travesty and a slap in the face to all true Sisters players whom have been holding on and hoping that this would be our time, finally, after so MANY years, to have a decent codex. I believe it's not too late, and I believe if we all provide enough feedback we can get this mess fixed before we get a lackluster, bottom-tier trash codex next Fall.

 

Help me guys! Please! This is pretty much our moment to make a difference -- and GW has proven they have NO IDEA how to make a strong Sisters codex! They legitimately need our help! MAKE OUR VOICES BE HEARD!

[Ficinus]

Just running rough averages, with a mistress you should be getting, on average, three hits from four attacks (if they can still re-roll misses of 3).  Depending on what you're hitting, you can get a decent number of wounds.  Eight of them with a preacher and mistress nearby (eight because a rhino/repressor can hold ten, so eight plus a preacher and mistress) swinging on a knight will average 24 hits, twelve wounds, eight past saves, which means 16 wounds, which is pretty dang impressive.  Let a lot of them get stomped and blow the Repentia stratagem to put some mortal wounds on it (maybe, probably not worth it at that point).

 

Mekhitar, where are your averages coming from?  9 Repentia attacking twice with Bloody Rose is, on average, 54 attacks, so 27 hits, 13-14 wounds, and then 9-11 through the save, which is 18-22 wounds.  Are you assuming a preacher/missionary nearby to get them up to four attacks?  In both 9 Repentia without a Mistress or priest type with the AoF or 8 of them with Mistress and priest type, it's likely within the realm of the probable to one hit a knight.  The odds of doing nothing would be pretty darn low on a distribution, but the odds of not even bracketing a knight are probably a bit unacceptably high.

 

Repentia will be great a nuking smaller monsters, like hive tyrants or demon princes, anything with T7 (assuming you're running Bloody Rose), though it might end up being a waste of them if they're left in the open.  5 or 6 repentia (75 or 90 points) with a Mistress (35 points)  and preacher (25 points) might be the most economical.  It can kill a medium monster or tank, without putting too many eggs in one basket.

[ERJAK]

Canoness with the make SoF a 5++.

Give cannoness the Book of Saint Lucy for 9" aura.

Keep Celestine nearby for +1 to SoF.

 

Sister infantry in 6-9" are looking at a 4++ to 5++ in the open. Sister blobs with 3+/4++(5++) sounds nice. Seraphim in there get 3++. Add in that order with the 6+++ and sisters can tank a reasonable amount of damage.

Hand of the emperor on cannoness and use vessel to get that little extra move when advancing to try and get across the board.

 

All sounds cool on paper. How its plays out on the table is...theyre still only T3 and die easy even to flashlights.

 

Obviously gw wants us to horde/blob horde.

 

No flamers stratagem makes me sad. That line from the community page of "its more than running up and flaming" now genuinely makes me mad...well, madder, because that line already enraged me.

 

As for the vessels being said to apply to vehicles. Lets not hold our breath. Guarantee that will be fixed to exclude vehicles in the very first faq.

Horde lists suck. Not in terms of actual competitiveness, but they suck to play with and they suck to play against.  They take an eternity to play and create frustration and boredom for both players most of the time.

 

GW wanting us to Horde Blob is bad. GW wanting us to horde blob based on giving basically the entire army a 4++ is worse. People have despised Azrael for multiple editions now for this exact reason. When they see Sisters with it, everyone will rightly call for it to be gutted and I will happily lead the charge. That said, it's still highly unlikely it will be good. Sisters lack any kind of long range firepower or close range kill threat and the blob will be both immobile and inflexible.

 

Best/Worst case scenario is people start taking a battalion worth of Sisters squads to bubblewrap their Knight armies or Guard tanks or Guilleman blob with cheap, 4++ infantry screens. We're ushering in a whole new age of 'conscript spam'.

 

GW totally forgot flamers even existed. There is no logical reason for our Shooting AoF to be +to hit rather than +to wound.

[Atrus]

Too much bolter porn on gw heads. Too much time wasted making marines codexes that dont need to exist. Come to sisters and all they got is ahmagerd boltaz!

 

Anyways, i just had a thought. How does the leaked AoF system look in the light of Kill Team? I dont know how kill team plays out so have no idea how this AoF reflects in that system.

[ERJAK]

Couple of things.

 

I have a file with notes from every source I could find that I'm pretty sure is an extensive version of the beta "Codex". I'm highly confident there's no surprises lurking in the release of CA for me as far as Sisters are concerned. I would post it here but it includes points values and I'm pretty sure that's a violation. CAN I DO A COPYPASTA OF MY NOTES or should I not? I want to do this so everyone here can make an informed decision with all the info in one place about this...this...beta codex.

 

Having said that, I think our only recourse is to take advantage of the "feedback" that GW evidently wants from us. I'm not even sure where to send this feedback. To that end, I made this post on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page, the text of which I am copying here so everyone can see it:

 

"I apologize in advance for all this.

Sweet giminy geebuz. You have ONE JOB, guys. ONE. That job consisted of TWO tasks: "1. Don't jack up Celestine & The Wonder Twins. 2. Don't make Acts of Faith *worse*."

 

I hate to say it.

 

I don't *want* to say it -- I really don't!

 

But Warhammer 40,000 (okay technically no one on the web page but it's the only hope I have for getting noticed): 

 

You have failed this cit...er...job. Tasks. Whatever.

 

I've waited for almost 12 hours before saying anything, as I didn't want raw emotion to drive or derail my ability to be professional and courteous. This beta codex has been hyped up -- and I really, REALLY didn't want to get hyped up, because let's face it -- the track record with Sisters isn't what you'd call "good" or "positive". But I allowed myself to feel hope. I see all the CANDY that was passed out to Dark Eldar, and then the...man, I don't even have words to describe the BROKENNESS of the Ork codex, I really don't. But after those long-ignored factions got such love I allowed myself to feel hope that maybe, just maybe the beta codex would have something like the candy and toys that were passed out to DE and Orks.

 

...and I shouldn't have, because as we all KNOW -- especially where a good Sisters codex is concerned, evidently -- hope is the first step to disappointment.

 

Where are we supposed to send our feedback? Is there a special email address we're supposed to use? I can only hope there will be enough feedback and we can course-correct this before it's too late."

 

If you really, honestly and truly care about the future of our beloved Sisters, please comment on my comment and let our voices be heard. This beta codex is a travesty and a slap in the face to all true Sisters players whom have been holding on and hoping that this would be our time, finally, after so MANY years, to have a decent codex. I believe it's not too late, and I believe if we all provide enough feedback we can get this mess fixed before we get a lackluster, bottom-tier trash codex next Fall.

 

Help me guys! Please! This is pretty much our moment to make a difference -- and GW has proven they have NO IDEA how to make a strong Sisters codex! They legitimately need our help! MAKE OUR VOICES BE HEARD!

 It's the same email address as the FAQ, I believe. 40kFAQ@gwplc.com