Sisters Preview

[Vigrid Of Asgaror]

Definitely excited to see more, not enough to really form a solid opinion, but that is entirely expected.

 

From the sounds of it there is plenty more to reveal which leaves me optimistic that there will be more interesting and cool things to come.

 

Really like the Penitent Engine changes, I already liked using them even if they were unreliable.

 

Consider me cautiously pumped for the full beta rules.

[Drider]

5 that will more than likely be shooting twice in the shooting phase.

 

i think it's reasonable to assume the new AoF system will be move twice, shoot twice, fight twice in the relevant phases rather than at the start of the turn. Given the preview we've seen it's a reasonable deduction to make.

 

i think it's also reasonable to assume that if penitent engines have been  upgraded to always fight twice then they will not have the AoF rule. which is a bit of a bummer because one of their main issues was mobility. We'll see if that's been addressed at all. 10" move and strat that allows them to advance and charge would be a good compromise.

[CaptainMarsh]

 

 

I think if y'all don't like the acts of faith you need to come up with a concise explanation of why, and send it as a large group. I've never played sisters before so I don't have any real feedback on how they should play.

 

I am excited for these, and when they do eventually come out in plastic I will probably buy a bunch of them.

Howdy friend!

 

As for why we think it could be bad: We can't say anything for certain until we see the book. But I know for me it comes down to a simple fact. The Sisters have a very limited toolkit. They use Bolter weapons, Flamer weapons, and Melta weapons. Those weapons are short-ranged, two of them are overcosted, all of them are worse at what they are meant to do than in previous editions. They are T3 models in an edition where a 3+ isn't what it used to be. They occupy a point level where they are cheap enough to field in good numbers but not enough to weigh you down with bodies, which means the are neither elite nor horde and benefit from neither playstyle. Our melee units are glass hammers that tend to get destroyed quickly or require lots of support, and our most effective shooting units need to get really close.

 

What makes the army effective are special rules that allow us to leverage mobility and multiple phases to use our limited toolkit in a more effective manner. This was accomplished via Acts of Faith most generally. Acts of Faith didn't scale, but if you like the concept of 'the right unit in the right place at the right time', Sisters are/were for you.

 

The worry is the new AoF system will be more limited the longer a game drags and far less reliable, making it much harder to leverage our mediocre toolkit. We cannot say this for certain until the book comes out.  

 

To throw it out there, I'm more worried about them being more limited IMMEDIATELY. If it is roll a 5+ on 1d6 then you'll be spending 6 faith points to get the same number of AoFs we could have gotten before with just Celestine and the normal roll, on average. It's also VERY doubtful that Simulcrum or Dialogus will actually be helpful in making AoFs easier, UNLESS you're running retributors and battle sisters exclusively. Simul and Dialogus are likely to have short range Aura abilities, which means they won't really be able to affect Dominions and Seraphim, and they'll basically be suicide escorts for whatever CQC units sisters get.

 

Obviously, all of this is predicated on a bunch of assumptions I have only very circumstantial evidence to support, but it's my worry,

 

Oh, also that mech sisters will be terrible and we end up an Infantry horde army. I hate infantry spam armies in 40k. All this cool stuff in the universe and I'm stuck with jill and bob from accounting.

 

We only have assumptions to make so no sins made there. I am making an assumption that the system will be like our version of a psychic phase, so we'll have tests from 5-8 required on a 2D6. If it is that it is annoying yes, but not awful. If it is 1d6 however it will be super terrible.

[Beams]

Mech sisters will always be good as long as we have Repressors. They were good in index without AoF, and will be good in codex without AoF...

 

Honestly, if Celestines +1 SoF Aura and the 5++ Warlord trait Sheild of Faith stack, mech sisters might be amazing, if we can AoF to keep a footsloggers Warlord behind them for a 4++.

 

But again, we really don't have much to go on yet

[FallenSoldiers]

I wonder when the AoF will occur. Will they keep it in its own phase? happen immediately? Use in the appropriate phase?

 

I’m cautiously optimistic.

[Drider]

 

hint hint :P

 

it looks like it is going to be based around double actions within the relevant phase.

[ERJAK]

Mech sisters will always be good as long as we have Repressors. They were good in index without AoF, and will be good in codex without AoF...

 

Honestly, if Celestines +1 SoF Aura and the 5++ Warlord trait Sheild of Faith stack, mech sisters might be amazing, if we can AoF to keep a footsloggers Warlord behind them for a 4++.

 

But again, we really don't have much to go on yet

For me, the question isn't so much 'will mech sisters be bad in and of themselves' (which, I know is not how the wording sounded) , but 'will mech sisters be bad relative to infantry spam sisters?' I prefer the mech playstyle massively, so a small powergap isn't a huge issue, but if Footslog sisters are finishing top 10 consistently and mech sisters can't even break the top 40, I'm gonna end up playing infantry spam. When I go to tournaments I want to win. Taking a significantly underpowered list on purpose isn't really something I can do.

[CaptainMarsh]

I wonder when the AoF will occur. Will they keep it in its own phase? happen immediately? Use in the appropriate phase?

 

I’m cautiously optimistic.

Seems to be power dependent. The one that allows you to fight twice in the fight phase was used at the start of your fight phase.

[Beams]

 

 

Mech sisters will always be good as long as we have Repressors. They were good in index without AoF, and will be good in codex without AoF...

 

Honestly, if Celestines +1 SoF Aura and the 5++ Warlord trait Sheild of Faith stack, mech sisters might be amazing, if we can AoF to keep a footsloggers Warlord behind them for a 4++.

 

But again, we really don't have much to go on yet

For me, the question isn't so much 'will mech sisters be bad in and of themselves' (which, I know is not how the wording sounded) , but 'will mech sisters be bad relative to infantry spam sisters?' I prefer the mech playstyle massively, so a small powergap isn't a huge issue, but if Footslog sisters are finishing top 10 consistently and mech sisters can't even break the top 40, I'm gonna end up playing infantry spam. When I go to tournaments I want to win. Taking a significantly underpowered list on purpose isn't really something I can do.

That's fair. I would imagine that there will be some strategems to buff vehicles, and any shooting based conviction should help.

 

At the very least, the Repressor in a bloody rose order might get 12 Str 7 attacks, if convictions effect vehicles.

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello all, totally spitballing here.

 

As far as tracking Faith and Command Points as separate numbers, perhaps, and this is the biggest if I can think of ever, what if Faith and CP were able to be used for the other, but at a flat +1 tax? So, if you use Faith to enact CP, it's 2 for that 1CP strategem that I think offers the chance to go with -2 AP and 2 D boltguns. A straight 1 for 1 might also work, but that could be extremely overpowered; then again, it might be just right, for all I know...

 

That may well be broken, but, the above idea also addresses the issue that both CP and Faith seem quite limited in the sheer scope of things in the game. Faith is rare enough, plus CP's are hard to come by anyway. If able to use Faith and CP one for one, one to the other, but each are their own pool, so if one runs out of CP or Faith but has the other, maybe make sure the Faith effecting stuff stays exclusive to that part of the points spent systems?

 

Basically in 8th CP are rare on their own, and adding Faith into this on a single d6 seems a bit... jarring? Maybe if people test the Faith rules in games and give the 2d6 test option a try, it might force the roll to be base 6 or 7, rather than 5. See, that's the interesting part: either it's 5 on 1d6, or 6 or 7 on 2d6.

 

Still, I think the beta 'dex is really going to bring SoB into a great spot, or at least, provide a solid hint as to where they should end up.

[Scurrae]

As stated above, the new AoF looks really... really bad...

I don't see it being reliable...

A guardmans army can bring a 100 souls in a 1000 pts army... even with that kind of numbers the mechanic looks far.... far from being OP and can barely match the current mechanic that don't scale.

The only thing that make it not compltetely a nerf is that you can use everything in a round... or at least you can try whilst looking at your opponent laughing for those precious points spare for nothing.

Let's hope for the army that the AoF is not something they have to rely on.

[FallenSoldiers]

 

hint hint :P

 

it looks like it is going to be based around double actions within the relevant phase.

Yeah I’m kinda hoping that wasn’t the norm... being able to act out of sequence was half the power of the AoF system. If I wanted to fight twice in the fight phase I’d use command points...

 

Look how powerful Ynnari are being able to break the order of the game through Soulburst. Sisters played the same way for me with the pre-turn AoF system.

 

Doubling up phases is good, but what if you shoot really well or fight really well and now that unit doesn’t have a target for AoFs...

 

Too many points of failure are showing up.

[Drider]

I suspect it is going to be the norm. No more "cheat phase" for us. There might be other things that let us break game order, but AoF doesn't look like its going to be that thing.

[FallenSoldiers]

I suspect it is going to be the norm. No more "cheat phase" for us. There might be other things that let us break game order, but AoF doesn't look like its going to be that thing.

At this structure it seems like (from that snippet) it’s jist command points with a different name. Also noteworthy is it says fight twice, not immediately fight twice. So you’ll stand a good chance of losing 1/3-1/2 of your potency by the next attack activation.

 

I’m hoping there’s more flavor in there.

[Beams]

 

I suspect it is going to be the norm. No more "cheat phase" for us. There might be other things that let us break game order, but AoF doesn't look like its going to be that thing.

At this structure it seems like (from that snippet) it’s jist command points with a different name. Also noteworthy is it says fight twice, not immediately fight twice. So you’ll stand a good chance of losing 1/3-1/2 of your potency by the next attack activation.

 

I’m hoping there’s more flavor in there.

Well, if you charge, you'd still pick them twice before any of the no charges can be picked.

 

So, you want to charge not get charged, I guess even more so than normal.

[CaptainMarsh]

Some such abilities also only allow them to be selected at the end of the Fight phase. This doesn't. This allows them to be selected twice in any order. So if they charged and this passes you can make your charging attacks, resolve all that, then pick them again to fight at the first step of the non-charge fight phase. This isn't as good as immediately attacking but it is better than some similar abilities.

[Mekhitar]

Unless the enemy burns 2cps on that gallant or character, and now your penitent engine or canoness is squished/scrap. (I also play khorne zerkers who get the fight twice innately, so I’ve seen how it rolls out.)

 

But I think that IF done right there is a lot of flexibility built in to units tactics, and that part could be pretty fun.

 

I’ll be interested too to see how they update celestine’s Data sheet.

[Purifying Tempest]

My big take away from this is... if you want to win games and not be true to your order... Ebon Chalice is ridiculously good.  The Passion is already good, and we have garbage for melee.  I'm staying Bloody Rose, so I may have fish for The Passion on the turn to go into melee with the Canoness rocking the Blade of Admonition, but for this one instance, The Passion is far better than current AoF (she'd normally have to wait through strikes back + next turn to get to double swing).  Bloody Rose Canoness with a Blade of Admonition + The Passion + a Priest + an extra attack on the assault Warlord Trait.  She will put a sizable dent in almost anything.  Lots of moving parts, there, but man, she is going to hurt something bad if half of it goes off.

 

There's a lot of salt elsewhere about Blessed Bolts.  I'm starting to feel it is a trap stratagem.  Giving up Melta doms for maximizing SBs for Blessed Bolts feels like a waste of resources (rule of 3 + CP burning).  That means it is likely going to be used by a wandering BSS with 3 SBs that caught someone getting a little too close to them.  It also won't likely work from a vehicle (Repressor), so they're getting sent up the field without any sort of support or protection.  The BEST case scenario I can see is Celestians getting special weapons + melee weapons in their kit... so they can bring 5 SBs + 5 Chainswords or Power weapons.  Celestians rocking that loadout with Blessed Bolts + the Canoness pile mentioned above... pretty scary stuff.

 

I'm not totally blown away by the previews, but I am pretty content.  Things seem... par for design.  Not bad, not awesome, a little better than 'meh' overall, which is good for the faction and the game :)

[Beams]

I am pretty sure my lists are all going to continue 3x Eviscerator+Inferno Pistol Cannonesses from the Bloody Rose, backed by a priest. I've had a single Cannoness kill Swarm Lord before, so I doubt there's anything short of a knight that that combo wont 1 turn.

[Ficinus]

I am pretty sure my lists are all going to continue 3x Eviscerator+Inferno Pistol Cannonesses from the Bloody Rose, backed by a priest. I've had a single Cannoness kill Swarm Lord before, so I doubt there's anything short of a knight that that combo wont 1 turn.

Three eviscerators and not two plus one Blade of Admonition? I feel like the flat three damage and the hitting on 2+ re-rolling makes the Blade a bit better (though the +1S from Bloody Rose will make the eviscerator a lot better).

[Beams]

 

I am pretty sure my lists are all going to continue 3x Eviscerator+Inferno Pistol Cannonesses from the Bloody Rose, backed by a priest. I've had a single Cannoness kill Swarm Lord before, so I doubt there's anything short of a knight that that combo wont 1 turn.

Three eviscerators and not two plus one Blade of Admonition? I feel like the flat three damage and the hitting on 2+ re-rolling makes the Blade a bit better (though the +1S from Bloody Rose will make the eviscerator a lot better).

I don't have a powerswords Cannoness, except Veridyan, and I don't want to cut her up.

 

But yeah, unless there are better relics out there, the blade of admonition is going to be sick in their hands

[Mekhitar]

I just noticed something. The Passion does not call out infantry units, nor does the 3cp aura stratagem. Similarly, the 3cp aura strat goes to Sororitas units, but doesn’t specify they need to have the AoF special rule, or that they be infantry either.

 

Could this end up being a way to spread (other) Acts of Faith to nearby vehicles? Not useful on the passion, but perhaps on another AoF?

[CaptainMarsh]

The other way to read it is that they don't specify infantry units in the acts or the strategem to spread a successful act because in the rules for Acts of Faith it may say only units with the ability may benefit from them.

[Drider]

for all we know there might be some decent relics you wou

 

 

 

I am pretty sure my lists are all going to continue 3x Eviscerator+Inferno Pistol Cannonesses from the Bloody Rose, backed by a priest. I've had a single Cannoness kill Swarm Lord before, so I doubt there's anything short of a knight that that combo wont 1 turn.

Three eviscerators and not two plus one Blade of Admonition? I feel like the flat three damage and the hitting on 2+ re-rolling makes the Blade a bit better (though the +1S from Bloody Rose will make the eviscerator a lot better).

I don't have a powerswords Cannoness, except Veridyan, and I don't want to cut her up.

But yeah, unless there are better relics out there, the blade of admonition is going to be sick in their hands

 

for all we know there might be other relics worth taking over the blade.

 

 

at this point i feel inspired to paint some of my unpainted sisters.

[Closet Skeleton]

Acts of Faith sound worse but going from an army that uses one special rule to be competitive to an army with more options is unlikely to be a over-all downgrade. I just hope they'll have more variety than double actions all the time. I want my 3++ unmovable melee b(l)obs back...

 

If Faith points are per turn then 5+ on 1d6 will actually be amazing.

 

6+ feel no pain will be better on sisters than it is on Iron Hands but not as good as it is on Orks. If convictions work on vehicles then Valorous Heart could be the mech Order.

 

Blessed bolts is great but it will basically just give Sisters a plasma gun equivalent.

 

Mech marines aren't that bad right now once you work out how to actually use them, mech sisters should be fine since they're cheaper so 70 point rhinos aren't as much of a issue.

 

I wonder if they will split out banners between the different models / types. As modeled there are actually 3 types of banners,  but in 8th it's been just the one.

 

Only one of those is for sale at the moment and only two of those were for sale simultaneously.

They use Bolter weapons, Flamer weapons, and Melta weapons. Those weapons are short-ranged, two of them are overcosted, all of them are worse at what they are meant to do than in previous editions.

 

Currently Melta and Flamer are overcosted for all armies, hopefully that will change.