Sisters Preview

[FallenSoldiers]

 

Erjak:

 

I know that strat was for fighting, I was making an inference that a shooting one would be similar. Perhaps I wasn’t clear.

 

I disagree about double shooting being better than shoot/move/shoot. Id much rather position myself to shoot something, wipe it, move into position, shoot something else. Shoot then shoot again leaves me with less flexibility.

 

Shoot/move/shoot allowed me to take on multiple targets located within different areas of my opponent’s forces. I could use HBs to clear a screen, then move a unit through said screen all before the turn began.

 

It allowed my firebase to be more mobile. Knowing the results of my shooting before I move is a huge benefit. Shooting twice back to back doesn’t seem to compare in any way. If you wanted to shoot back to back then you can with the current system (more or less, shoot/skip movement/shoot).

Remember, AoFs went off BEFORE the turn started so your opponent had HIS entire turn to neuter your AoFs. Shoot move shoot is worse because your opponent will just move out of your range before your turn starts and your AoF will be largely wasted. Positioning yourself to wipe something just means your opponent moves slightly to the left and you wipe nothing. Or they just charge your unit and kill it because we're still SoB. You can jump out of a transport and double shoot now too. Also Seraphim might actually be able to double shoot occasionally now, lol. Most of the time in situations like what you described you end up being stuck with 'move, move, shoot' or 'heal, move, shoot'.

 

Screens are much less prevelant with the loss of turn 1 deepstrike. Not that heavybolters were that great at clearing chaff in the AoF phase before. You'd need 2 units of HB rets and at least 1 imagifier to punch through a decent chaff unit. That's an okay setup, but there are more efficient ways to go about it. And more efficient ways to use AoF.

 

The mobility of any sob 'firebase(which SoB don't really have because our guns are incredibly short ranged)' is still extremely poor, you'd get 1 extra 6" move at the cost of 2 imagifiers worth of AoFs basically. Unless you're talking about dominions(which is a weird thing to describe as a firebase), which will basically never be in range to shoot during the AoF phase against a halfway decent opponent.

 

Not to be rude, but it sounds like you haven't really played with the old AoF system enough to have run into the practical limitations surrounding how shooting 12" range guns immediately after your OPPONENT'S movement phase work. I will concede that heavy bolters are a bit worse now, but the gains elsewhere more than make up for it.

Now I’ve only played with 8th edition rules, but if I’m AoF Fire, move, Fire how is my opponent moving out of range? They don’t get to interact between those 3 actions. If they move out of range in their turn, that’s a horse of a different color.

 

I’ve had fantastic success with shooting, moving units up, then shooting something else. Perhaps your meta is different, but where I play there are still plenty of screens to protect against jump infantry charging into your lines.

 

But I feel we are falling off topic, I’d be happy to take it to PM to continue discussing though.

 

Overall I’m enjoying the new strats a bit, but cautious about how AOF is going to pan out if it’s limited to phase based interactions. Again, look what makes Ynnari the powerhouse it is, being able to break game mechanics “at will” with soulburst. If AoFs proc’d more like that, I’d be much more excited.

 

Also, how would Martyrdom interact now? Just doesn’t cost a point, but you still need to roll??

[ERJAK]

My issue with relying on these auras is the same issue I have with space marine tactics that rely on auras or other armies that focus on auras. Sure thats nice but I don't like the idea of forcing armies to move around in blobs centered on auras. It reduces strategic flexibility for oftentimes negligible tactical benefits.

 

 

 

They are taken on a 1d6, taken from Bob at War of Sigmar.

Where was this quote, I only saw the once per game one.

Read the article preview on the site. He mentions it. I quoted him above also, but will again:

"For exemple this one (is the hardest to cast) you need to roll 5+ on 1D6, there are 3 way to get a +1 to the roll."

 

And then in the comments, you saw the other.

Thank you. God that sucks. They're not even going to understand why Simulcrum imperials and Dialogus are bad either.

[CaptainMarsh]

It does suck. It sucks bad. After the book has come out we need to be firm and direct on how bad it sucks.

[Aqui]

It's both an exciting and frustrating time right now. We're sooo close to seeing what the entire Beta looks like, but all we've had a few pieces of the jigsaw, no edge pieces and certainly no pieces that fit together all that well in the centre. Hopefully everything will make sense in just over a week's time :)

[Mekhitar]

A pool of 6-7 faith points (if you go full sisters), which are tests you have to meet on a d6, and you only get those 6-7 points for Acts for the whole game?  That's terrible if true.  Makes Ebon Chalice pretty crappy too; look, you get a bonus to get off one of these 6 rolls in your entire game!

Right now a sisters player can regularly get off 10 acts of faith without including an imagifier... when we said we wanted AoF to scale with faction size, we didn't mean take them away from us too :(

I really hope there are additional ways to generate faith points over the course of a game, or that one of these rumors is false.

[ERJAK]

A pool of 6-7 faith points (if you go full sisters), which are tests you have to meet on a d6, and you only get those 6-7 points for Acts for the whole game? That's terrible if true. Makes Ebon Chalice pretty crappy too; look, you get a bonus to get off one of these 6 rolls in your entire game!

 

Right now a sisters player can regularly get off 10 acts of faith without including an imagifier... when we said we wanted AoF to scale with faction size, we didn't mean take them away from us too

 

I really hope there are additional ways to generate faith points over the course of a game, or that one of these rumors is false.

Also according to Bob, their are only 3 ways to get plus 1. So that means restrictive character #1, restrictive character #2 and Ebon chalice.

 

It's like they designed it to be...unpleasant to use on purpose.

[Montford]

I am quite excited about what I've been reading in the preview. A 60 point Dominion Squad just became a mortal threat to a Primaris Squad easily twice its points. :) 

 

As for Act of Faith I need to wait for the actual rules. I had 55 Faithful models in my last Tournament list. 

 

Penitent Engines are now not only better in close combat but have a much better chance of surviving to get there!

 

Order Convictions have been a LONG time coming and are most welcome!

 

It will be good to get a set of Faction Warlord Traits at last. 

[Atrus]

If the rumours are true and its gotta last the whole game, and we're testing on 1d6...i certainly hope faith is going to be suitably incredibly powerful, otherwise why bother?

Still, seen too little to make any real call.

[ERJAK]

A pool of 6-7 faith points (if you go full sisters), which are tests you have to meet on a d6, and you only get those 6-7 points for Acts for the whole game? That's terrible if true. Makes Ebon Chalice pretty crappy too; look, you get a bonus to get off one of these 6 rolls in your entire game!

 

Right now a sisters player can regularly get off 10 acts of faith without including an imagifier... when we said we wanted AoF to scale with faction size, we didn't mean take them away from us too :(

 

I really hope there are additional ways to generate faith points over the course of a game, or that one of these rumors is false.

Also according to Bob, their are only 3 ways to get plus 1. So that means pointless character #1, pointless character #2 and Ebon chalice.

 

It's like they designed it to be bad on purpose.

[dracpanzer]

Do we think we will get a preview of Celestines rules?

[ERJAK]

Do we think we will get a preview of Celestines rules?

Maybe ob warhammer TV tomorrow.

[Purifying Tempest]

 

A pool of 6-7 faith points (if you go full sisters), which are tests you have to meet on a d6, and you only get those 6-7 points for Acts for the whole game? That's terrible if true. Makes Ebon Chalice pretty crappy too; look, you get a bonus to get off one of these 6 rolls in your entire game!

 

Right now a sisters player can regularly get off 10 acts of faith without including an imagifier... when we said we wanted AoF to scale with faction size, we didn't mean take them away from us too

 

I really hope there are additional ways to generate faith points over the course of a game, or that one of these rumors is false.

Also according to Bob, their are only 3 ways to get plus 1. So that means pointless character #1, pointless character #2 and Ebon chalice.

 

It's like they designed it to be bad on purpose.

 

 

If there are only 3 ways to get +1, and the preview said Simulacrums and Dialogus... I imagine we'll see an escort unit have an aura of +1, and a unit upgrade for +1.  I'm hoping Laud Hailers become something decently useful, too, like reroll failed Tests of Faith for units within X inches, strap them back onto those vehicles for maximum iconography! :)

[A.T.]

If there are only 3 ways to get +1, and the preview said Simulacrums and Dialogus... I imagine we'll see an escort unit have an aura of +1, and a unit upgrade for +1.  I'm hoping Laud Hailers become something decently useful, too, like reroll failed Tests of Faith for units within X inches, strap them back onto those vehicles for maximum iconography!

 

At some point though this is going to become like the current imagifier issue - where it becomes more efficient to just buy an extra unit.

[Purifying Tempest]

 

If there are only 3 ways to get +1, and the preview said Simulacrums and Dialogus... I imagine we'll see an escort unit have an aura of +1, and a unit upgrade for +1.  I'm hoping Laud Hailers become something decently useful, too, like reroll failed Tests of Faith for units within X inches, strap them back onto those vehicles for maximum iconography!

 

At some point though this is going to become like the current imagifier issue - where it becomes more efficient to just buy an extra unit.

 

 

If Faith Points are usable once per game, adding bonuses adds to the surety of it firing.  If a 15 point Dialogus can save you 1 Faith Point a game... she just did the job of 90 points of models.  Ebon Chalice should save like 1-2 Faith per game.  And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.  Sometimes it is a matter of quantity, but with a gate of 5+ to fire off the Passion on your Canoness with Blade of Admonition... man, having those boosts to make it happen RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT seems pretty critical.  We don't even know if they're going to be like Stratagems and can only be fired once per turn, regardless of success or failure.  Those upgrades actually have a purpose now, a purpose that isn't solved by throwing more models at it to make it go away.

[Warsmith Aznable]

And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.

What does a SoB "Deathstar" look like?

[Purifying Tempest]

 

And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.

What does a SoB "Deathstar" look like?

 

 

I mean... what do you want it to look like?  I've said earlier that I'm hoping Celestians get a tiny nudge back towards their 7e selves and can take special weapons + melee weapons.  Give them some chainswords or power axes, make 'em bloody rose with a canoness with the blade of admonition.  Put down a priest... and then do everything you can to make The Passion trigger.  Charge into some poor unit and punch WAY above your weight for that turn.  Good unit for starting in a Rhino.  Celestians could also make use of their AWFUL bodyguard rules in that scenario, too, to take some wounds away from your Canoness with the Blade that's potentially swinging 7 times (4 + 1 from BRB WL Trait + BR Order Trait + Priest).  14 if she lands The Passion, and those potential 7 attacks aren't locked up in the start of your turn.  BR Celestians can throw 4/5 attacks each with STR 5 Power Axes on the charge, 5/6 with STR 4 Chainswords.  Again, if you can land The Passion and toss in Vessel of the Emperor's Will, you're certainly clearing out some space.  Your opponent has to answer it, even if you never use it.  And those are the BEST threats, because they affect the battle just by being present, allowing other lower units to move around a bit more and... win the game! =P

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that if they get Special Weapons + Melee Weapons (a la Chaos Chosen), they can carry Stormbolters as well and threaten with Blessed Bolts.  Your opponent cannot let a unit like that center up and efficiently direct that threat into a spread of his units.

[bearden441]

Out of left field question, but do you think we will see sisters on larger bases, or will the keep 25mm?

[Beams]

 

And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.

What does a SoB "Deathstar" look like?

I'm thinking melee Cannonesses surrounded by Celestine and Celestians or Repentia and a priest, 3 CP to give the aura AoF.

 

Basically, rush the middle of the board in tranports turn 1, jump out turn 2 and melee everything to death.

[ERJAK]

 

 

 

A pool of 6-7 faith points (if you go full sisters), which are tests you have to meet on a d6, and you only get those 6-7 points for Acts for the whole game? That's terrible if true. Makes Ebon Chalice pretty crappy too; look, you get a bonus to get off one of these 6 rolls in your entire game!

 

Right now a sisters player can regularly get off 10 acts of faith without including an imagifier... when we said we wanted AoF to scale with faction size, we didn't mean take them away from us too

 

I really hope there are additional ways to generate faith points over the course of a game, or that one of these rumors is false.

Also according to Bob, their are only 3 ways to get plus 1. So that means pointless character #1, pointless character #2 and Ebon chalice.

 

It's like they designed it to be bad on purpose.

If there are only 3 ways to get +1, and the preview said Simulacrums and Dialogus... I imagine we'll see an escort unit have an aura of +1, and a unit upgrade for +1. I'm hoping Laud Hailers become something decently useful, too, like reroll failed Tests of Faith for units within X inches, strap them back onto those vehicles for maximum iconography! :)

The third way is almost certainly the Ebon Chalice CT. I appreciate the optimism though.

[ERJAK]

 

And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.

What does a SoB "Deathstar" look like?

SoB have melee units that can hit fairly hard with the passion+bloody rose (extremely hard if we get arcos and deathcults too) it's just they die immediately when something hits back.

[Mekhitar]

It would seem more fitting for imagifiers to give +1 and the dialogus to grant a re-roll...

[Purifying Tempest]

Rumor is there will be 3 sources of +1 to the roll.  I am fairly certain that there will be at least 1 way to grant free rerolls for failed Tests.

 

I'm going to speculate that the 3 sources of +1 will be:

 

Order trail (confirmed to be Ebon Chalice)

Unit Upgrade (they've directly mentioned Simulacrums are going to play a role in the Faith game)

Character Aura (could be Celestine, could be a Dialogus, Dialogus has also been confirmed to play a role, could even be a Warlord Trait - perhaps one Celestine is forced to take to emulate her "auto-act" currently)

 

The reroll will likely come from:

 

Laud Hailers (convenient the Dialogus has one in her Wargear)

And probably either the Dialogus or Imagifier, whichever doesn't play with the +1 to Faith roll games

[ERJAK]

Rumor is there will be 3 sources of +1 to the roll. I am fairly certain that there will be at least 1 way to grant free rerolls for failed Tests.

 

I'm going to speculate that the 3 sources of +1 will be:

 

Order trail (confirmed to be Ebon Chalice)

Unit Upgrade (they've directly mentioned Simulacrums are going to play a role in the Faith game)

Character Aura (could be Celestine, could be a Dialogus, Dialogus has also been confirmed to play a role, could even be a Warlord Trait - perhaps one Celestine is forced to take to emulate her "auto-act" currently)

 

The reroll will likely come from:

 

Laud Hailers (convenient the Dialogus has one in her Wargear)

And probably either the Dialogus or Imagifier, whichever doesn't play with the +1 to Faith roll games

I personally doubt GW will be that creative. I'm assuming Dialogus and Simulacrum imperialis will be characters with +1 AoF abilities in a 6" aura. Then Ebon chalice, and that'll be it.

 

That mostly comes from how poorly concieved the new AoF system seems to be from the outset. GW could just be keeping things close to the chest and actually have a deep, thoughtful system with a lot of tactical nuance built up. But it's GW, so...

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

 

And then a 10 point unit banner could possibly make the reliability of firing your "death star" a lot more reasonably.

What does a SoB "Deathstar" look like?

I'm thinking melee Cannonesses surrounded by Celestine and Celestians or Repentia and a priest, 3 CP to give the aura AoF.

 

Basically, rush the middle of the board in tranports turn 1, jump out turn 2 and melee everything to death.

I asked that question because I've never seen anything up to par with what other armies can do that they call Deathstars. Repentia hit hard, sure, but are made of paper. Without assault ramps in this edition you can't count on them. Battle Conclaves used to qualify, but with the Index changes and 8th edition rules aren't nearly as good as they were. Celestine with a screening unit of 10 Seraphim bodyguards is about as close as I'd get to calling something a Deathstar anymore, but even then their utility isn't universal like other Deathstars can claim to be because their wargear limits them to menacing hordes and PA MSU. To have something truly worthy of the apellation of Deathstar we're going to need to see some significant changes in the new rules.

[Servant of Dante]

I've not really read the whole thread so I apologize if this is too far out of left field, but I'm excited for the AoF change. I wasn't interested in the Index system, too simplistic with 3 very broad, very powerful abilities that had very little flavor. Of course, the new system could be weak but it sounds quite interesting.

 

The stratagems they showed seemed neat, though SB Doms were already as good or better than Flamer and Melta Doms, maybe we'll get a flamer strat and a melta strat too.

 

And of course I'm looking forward to seeing what the VH Order Conviction is. I appreciate that the EC's is nice and generic, since they're kinda the "original" Order.

 

We'll see how it all plays out, of course :D