Sisters Preview

[ERJAK]

I'm wondering if Celestine is going to get the Phoenix Lord treatment of not busting any particular Order she gets slotting into, but not having an Order trait of her own.  Thus she can be powerful and never unfairly so for one order, or prevent players from using one of our strongest tools in the army in their non-Celestine's-Order detachment.  Effectively, it could force people to blow 1 CP on a Support Auxiliary Detachment or a tax for making a legit detachment for her to slot into.  Pretty sure they're just going to Phoenix Lord her and be done with the whole thing (Sorry Martyred Lady players )

To be honest though, for Celestine being OoOML is basically being orderless. She doesn't benefit very much from their Conviction. I also highly doubt that the only plastic centerpiece model we can buy will be gimped into Aux detachments. I'm hoping she just gets the order trait of whatever detachment she's in so I can run her Bloody Rose.

[dracpanzer]

I think the Simulacrum is going to be a squad upgrade, and we will be losing the Imagifer. Not a big loss in my opinion. The reveal video showed us a squad of Sisters with the Simulacrum in it. I may be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it right now.

 

The +3" movement AoF wouldn't be a bad thing if it was like some of the Speed Freaks stuff that gives you +3" to your move, advance and charge distances. Otherwise, meh.

 

I like the fact that the Passion gets to go off in the fight phase rather than at the start of the turn. Although I'll miss being able to fight with Celestine and then move away. Now I get to move her and then fight twice.

 

I'm still on the positive side for the new Faith system. The 8ed Index version was nice, but it didn't have any real nuance and was usually just giving Celestine a free round of fighting if she somehow managed to be in close combat at the start of your turn. If not, she'd move for free or if already properly positioned heal herself or buff her accompanying Seraphim. The Imagifers would bolster up your Retributors, and your 2+ Army AoF went wherever your Celestine/Imagifer bubbles didn't make it too. I'm hungry for nuance and the new system seems to be giving us that.

 

I'm liking the idea of an OoML Outrider detachment to move forward, contest objectives, and generate Faith Points for those later game rounds where we've always suffered our biggest drop off. A Battalion drawn from OoEC or an as of yet defined Order that is better suited to maintaining the backfield and and putting shots down range while making the most of the Faith Points you start with. I'm very interested in what OoSR is going to look like with their fondness for Retributor squads. After that I see a Vanguard detachment comprised of OoBR with Celestine and some Repentia perhaps.

 

Could change as well not knowing what the other Convictions are of course. Though I'm really liking the possibility of a full Sisters army, a good amount of nuance and we will finally get some choices of what to play and how to do so.

 

Also good to hear that I'm not the only one who makes a terrible show of rolling multiple 1's whenever Celestine rolls to hit, rolls to wound, or decides to fail a bucket full of saves...

 

Seraphim so far I would take from OoML because they are always exposed, OoAS conviction may change that, but we'll see.

[Montford]

If the Simulacrum becomes a Squad upgrade then I would think we would be able to take more than 3, and if that's the case, would they become a 1 wound model? If they do become a 1 wound model their points cost had better drop like a rock. 

[Montford]

Lemondish posted this in the CA 2018 rumor thread. These are the notes he made from the livestream which relate to the Beta Codex:

 

 

Adeptus Sororitas Beta Codex. Some background including on the sub-factions.On a quick flip through looks like... maybe 10 or 12 pages of datasheets. Rules for 6 Orders. Character for each Order is drawn from their founding Saint.

Our Martyred Lady - Each time a unit is destroyed, gain a Faith Point.

Faith Points - Get base 3 plus one for 10 models, used to activate Acts of Faith. Inspiration from Stratagems. 6 different Acts, need to roll above the Act's Devotion Value on 1D6. Ways to modify the roll. SImulacrum Imperialis, Sister Dialogous give bonuses. Order of the Ebon Chalice get a +1. No move before the movement phase, now there's an Act to increase movement.

14 Stratagems. Expect to expand for the final Codex, this is a starting mix basically.
Ministorum Priests now split into two datasheets: Missionaries (HQ) and Preachers (basically like the AM Priest).

4 HQ choices

Penitent Engines, arco-flaggents, Death Cult Assassins do not get Acts of Faith

All 6 Orders have Convictions, Warlord Traits, relics.

Covers existing range (so no new units except in cases where they have a model they can make it for, like the Priests above).

[ERJAK]

If the Simulacrum becomes a Squad upgrade then I would think we would be able to take more than 3, and if that's the case, would they become a 1 wound model? If they do become a 1 wound model their points cost had better drop like a rock.

If it's a squad upgrade it won't have it's own datasheet, it'll just be a type of wargear basically. Rule of 3 exempt.

 

I think the thing I like most so far is that there are very clear advantages to running multiple detachments of different Orders.

 

OoOML are amazing for msu battalion or even outrider detachments where you can basically suicide models for a significant benefit.

 

Ebon chalice is a very efficient resource use detachment, excellent for powerful expensive units that benefit heavily from AoFs.

 

Bloody rose is ungodly brutal for any melee setup the sisters can kick out. Especially great for Arcos and Deathcults if they don't get AoFs but do get <Order>.

[Montford]

I am eager to see what Sacred Rose will be able to do: my entire army is modeled for that Order.

[Purifying Tempest]

I'm doubtful Ministorum units that are not apart of the Sororitas directly are going to get <ORDER>.  Arcos, Crusaders, DCA, etc... they probably won't be getting <ORDER>.  It'd be kinda awkward if they did, may even be pretty cool, but I doubt I would invite them in without much reservation :)  They simply don't pass the purity test :D

[Banjulhu]

So if we are looking at 3 + 1 per 10 models with the right keyword we are probably looking at around 9 faith points for a game to possibly trigger abilities which are likely going to be retooled versions of what already exists but we do get the opportunity to pay a model/upgrade tax to boost the chance of success.

It feels like faith is going from being the central power of the army to a side thing that may come up when the stars align.

[Montford]

It is possible that some Named characters, such as Celestine, may contribute a Faith Point.  And if they don't then we could always recommend that they do in our feedback. It would seem to be a perfectly reasonable notion.

[Commander Dawnstar]

So if we are looking at 3 + 1 per 10 models with the right keyword we are probably looking at around 9 faith points for a game to possibly trigger abilities which are likely going to be retooled versions of what already exists but we do get the opportunity to pay a model/upgrade tax to boost the chance of success.

 

It feels like faith is going from being the central power of the army to a side thing that may come up when the stars align.

 

I suppose the argument could be that we're going from Faith filling in for our lack of Stratagems to a situation where we'll have both Stratagems and 'free' pseudo-Stratagems?

[ERJAK]

It is possible that some Named characters, such as Celestine, may contribute a Faith Point.  And if the don't then we could always recommend that they do in our feedback. It would seem to be a perfectly reasonable notion.

 

Since there are only 4 HQs, it's likely that until the actual codex only Celestine and Uriah will be in. Celestine needs to keep her guaranteed AoF AND the movement AoF needs to be as good as the old one was for her to stay anywhere near her current pricepoint. If she just gives faith points, really any number of faith points, she'll need a fairly significant price drop, especially when you compare her to 180pt Drago and Trajann. If it is the rumored '+3 to movement' now, then she should cap out at sub 200 with both gemini.

 

Uriah Jacobus would be usable with about a 30-40pt drop if he gave 3 faith points(assuming no other rules changes).

So if we are looking at 3 + 1 per 10 models with the right keyword we are probably looking at around 9 faith points for a game to possibly trigger abilities which are likely going to be retooled versions of what already exists but we do get the opportunity to pay a model/upgrade tax to boost the chance of success.

 

It feels like faith is going from being the central power of the army to a side thing that may come up when the stars align.

I actually kind of see it as the other way around. But also not? As much as I love the old Faith system, it was mostly a crutch to help us with how limited our options are. Rather than the diversity or 'OP units' other factions got, we got this incredibly powerful army wide ability to compensate for being locked into Melta guns and Stormbolters. You couldn't really do much to leverage the system with just imagifiers so it was more of a flat powerboost than something we could focus on exploiting. 

 

The new system(and GW's track record with systems like this) creates a fork in the road:

 

On the one hand, if The Passion is by far the strongest AoF for the army and the other things are mediocre support abilities like +3 to move or any shooting bonus that isn't a second round of fire, the system will be something you can largely avoid investing in. Every once in a while a game will be close enough that one of the AoFs will be critical but most of the time you just throw out an ability to have a chance to make a unit slightly better than it was before. You generally won't invest in getting more points or getting bonuses to the roll outside of  a handful of deathstar-y type units. You'll use vessels every once in a while on turn one or if you build a list that happens to be able to take advantage of it, but it won't be something you go out of your way to make sure you can do.

 

On the other hand, if the other 5+ to succeed AoF IS double shooting and the unknown ones are significantly useful, rather than just small gimmes, how well you take advantage of your Faith points will make or break you pretty much every game. Infantry will be incredibly valuable and very strong, especially with their medium range shooting options getting cheaper and the Stormbolter Strat. You'll likely build detachments and units specifically around leveraging your Faith points as efficiently as possible. Units that CAN utilize Faith points well will be at a massive premium. Vessels of the Emperor could see infantry blob become one of the scariest lists in the game, especially considering that we can run that MSU with a huge number of CP and an OoOML brigade that could conceivably see you start the game with 18+CP, 15+FP and gain another 5-15FP by turn 3. Even mech lists will revolve around maximizing the probability of getting successful AoFs with things like Simulacrums and layered Conviction benefits.

 

Long story short, it could become a small bonus that props up the army a bit, or it could become the absolute most important part of both list building AND tabletop play. It all depends on what the other AoFs actually are.

[Montford]

I was certain in one of the leaks they mentioned that there will be a Character representing each of the six Order Majoris. Maybe they were talking about the full Codex.

[dracpanzer]

I was certain in one of the leaks they mentioned that there will be a Character representing each of the six Order Majoris. Maybe they were talking about the full Codex.

I didn't see that in any of the reveals or anything else, and I have been watching very closely.

[dracpanzer]

Long story short, it could become a small bonus that props up the army a bit, or it could become the absolute most important part of both list building AND tabletop play. It all depends on what the other AoFs actually are.

Agreed on all accounts and looking forward to it.

[ERJAK]

 

I was certain in one of the leaks they mentioned that there will be a Character representing each of the six Order Majoris. Maybe they were talking about the full Codex.

I didn't see that in any of the reveals or anything else, and I have been watching very closely.

 

I don't remember exactly what it was, but I do remember seeing something about character and the Orders. I don't think it was like...literal characters though, from what I remember vaguely, it seemed more like they were building the conviction rules around characters associated with the different orders or something...

 

I don't know, it looked like narrative stuff so I didn't really retain it, but I do know that SOMETHING about character and Orders was said.

[Montford]

Found it:

 

"The character of each Order is drawn from the founding Saint"

 

Its describing the special ability of each Order, not actually a Character. Oh well .

[ERJAK]

Found it:

 

"The character of each Order is drawn from the founding Saint"

 

Its describing the special ability of each Order, not actually a Character. Oh well .

It is fun for time killing speculation though! Now off to do research about Sacred rose and Argent Shroud.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I'm fairly certain that the Sacred Rose will either end up with a Leadership buff or something that benefits their shooting.

[Montford]

I'm fairly certain that the Sacred Rose will either end up with a Leadership buff or something that benefits their shooting.

 

Of the two I'd personally prefer a shooting buff. :)

[ERJAK]

NDA for Bob and Atia over at War of Sigmar drops at 6am EST. Get hyped. Yunno...if you're third shift like me. Or in a favorable timezone.

 

NEW STRATAGEM. The preview for the CA special edition has a new Strat in it:

 

2CP

Extremis trigger word: Use this Stratagem in the Fight phase when you pick an Arco-Flagellants unit to fight. Until the end of that phase, replace the unit's Arco-flails ability with 'Make 3 hit rolls for each attack made with this weapon'. At the end of that phase, roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models in that unit. For each roll of 6, one model in the unit is slain.

[CaptainMarsh]

Did you see anything else, good friend ERJAK?

[ERJAK]

Did you see anything else, good friend ERJAK?

Preacher(elite choice version) doesn't have <Order> or ADEPTA SORORITAS keywords so that's going to be interesting for the detachment rules. and lowers CHAOS bravery by one within 6", appears to have NO wargear options at all, and keeps war hymns, zealot, and the rosarius alongside his normal statline.

[CaptainMarsh]

Good to see. I am sure Ministorum will slot in as they do in Astra Militarum: They will not benefit from our Convictions, nor will they interfere with them.

We know 7 of the Strategems now. I believe we will have one that will interact with FP/AoF and of course we'll have a Strategem for more relics. That brings us to 9.

5 Strategems, 4 WT, 2 Order Convictions, Relics, Datasheets, Point Costs remain.

[Atrus]

Not to mention Order specific stratagems.

 

That flaggelant stratagem takes me back to WH days

[CaptainMarsh]

Not to mention Order specific stratagems.

 

That flaggelant stratagem takes me back to WH days

We were told there would be 14 strategems in the book. Assuming we get one for Relics, that could mean the six we have yet to see are all Order specific.