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[ERJAK]

 

Not to mention Order specific stratagems.

 

That flaggelant stratagem takes me back to WH days

We were told there would be 14 strategems in the book. Assuming we get one for Relics, that could mean the six we have yet to see are all Order specific.

 

According to Bob there is at least one revolving around gaining faith points. So it might be 14+ the 6 chapter specific one and they just transcribed it or the twitch people said it wrong.

[Atrus]

Wonder if Celestine dying would reduce x faith points like back in the WH days. I wouldnt object to it, if she isnt going to be as fast as now, she may well be played more conservatively. (And possibly seen less often in soup lists)

[ERJAK]

Wonder if Celestine dying would reduce x faith points like back in the WH days. I wouldnt object to it, if she isnt going to be as fast as now, she may well be played more conservatively. (And possibly seen less often in soup lists)

If she gets slowed down she likely won't be seen in ANY soup lists. Other armies have better 12" move combat characters.

[Commander Dawnstar]

We have a 25 minute video review over here. Doesn't go into a great deal of detail on the units themselves and it's by someone who clearly doesn't know Sisters well.

 

Pretty much double called it on the Sacred Rose. Can never lose more than one model to morale and Overwatch on 5s. Both of those are things I absolutely thought about voicing but never put here (seriously, believe me on that).

 

The Argent Shroud gain a Faith Point on a 4+ every time they destroy an enemy unit.

 

Some stream of consciousness notes:

• Hand of the Emperor did indeed get dropped down to an extra 3" move.
• Divine Guidance is now +1 to Hit rather than double-shooting (Devotion 4+).
• The Simulacrum Imperialis is indeed a unit upgrade now, granting +1 to AoF tests.
• Angelic Visage now grants +1 to Shield of Faith saves (to a maximum of 3+) rather than a reroll.
• Exorcist may be unchanged???
• Stratagem allowing Repentia to cause Mortal Wounds after dying in close combat.
• Stratagem granting unit that passes a Faith test the ability to reroll 1s to Wound.
• 1 CP to upgrade a Simulacrum to a Sacred Banner that gives +1 to Shield of Faith rolls for the unit once per battle.
• Martyrdom Stratagem grants you D3 Faith Points when a character dies, a flat three points if they were your Warlord.
• There's also a Stratagem that lets you trade 1 CP for 1 Faith Point.
• Celestine's Warlord Trait now grants you a free Faith Point on a 4+ at the start of each turn.
• That Warlord Trait which gives a +1 to Shield of Faith bubble now allows for a unit with a 4++ save when combined with the Standard.
• Pfft. There's a Warlord Trait that lets your Warlord attempt to Deny twice per turn (on 1d6 of course).
• Ah, the Brazier of Eternal Flame relic lets any unit within 6" of the bearer Deny on 2d6. I guess that combo is there if you want it.
• Litanies of Faith recycle Faith Points used for successful Acts of Faith by units within 6" on a 5+.

[Atrus]

Simulcrum being a unit upgrade makes sense. No save difference, also sold in the 10 girl box online. Means i have to get my hands on more...lots more.

Would the upgrade to sacred banner also grant the +1 to faith in addition to the SoF boost?

 

Not liking the sounds of exorcist there. If there was a unit that desperately needed attention, that is it.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Oh, my mistake. The Sacred Banner grants +1 to Shield of Faith saves once per battle. It certainly should keep the regular effect on top of that.

 

All the guy mentions about the Exorcist is that it has the same weapon statline.

[ERJAK]

<p>

 

We have a 25 minute video review

.

 

Pretty much double called it on the Sacred Rose. Can never lose more than one model to morale and Overwatch on 5s. Both of those are things I absolutely thought about voicing but never put here (seriously, believe me on that).

 

The Argent Shroud gain a Faith Point on a 4+ every time they destroy an enemy unit.

 

Some stream of consciousness notes:

• Hand of the Emperor did indeed get dropped down to an extra 3" move.
• Divine Guidance is now +1 to Hit rather than double-shooting (Devotion 4+).
• The Simulacrum Imperialis is indeed a unit upgrade now, granting +1 to AoF tests.
• Angelic Visage now grants +1 to Shield of Faith saves (to a maximum of 3+) rather than a reroll.
• Exorcist may be unchanged???
• Stratagem allowing Repentia to cause Mortal Wounds after dying in close combat.
• Stratagem granting unit that passes a Faith test the ability to reroll 1s to Wound.
• 1 CP to upgrade a Simulacrum to a Sacred Banner that gives +1 to Shield of Faith rolls for the unit.
• Martyrdom Stratagem grants you D3 Faith Points when a character dies, a flat three points if they were your Warlord.
• There's also a Stratagem that lets you trade 1 CP for 1 Faith Point.
• Celestine's Warlord Trait now grants you a free Faith Point on a 4+ at the start of each turn.

(Initial gut response)

 

Mediocre and underwhelming across the board, about what I expected. AoFs are barely relevant bonuses that not only leave us weaker than we were with the old system, but will also eat up any points we got back through weapon options getting cheaper thanks to Simulacrum. Hand of the Emperor being +3 is straight trash. You'll use it once out of every 10-12 faith points.

 

Sacred rose is fine, Argent shroud is just a worse OoOML.

 

Celestine should be about 135 points with both Gemini now. She'll never be warlord. I'd rather give a Canoness a 5+ FNP than MAYBE get TWO WHOLE FAITH POINTS in a game. Seraphim should be cheaper than battle sisters now.

 

The only two useful stratagems are the reroll wounds one and the Stormbolter one. Trading CP for FP is not something you're likely to do, especially considering our still probably mandatory allies need them. +1 SoF means bugger-all, unless they really, really want us to start running large blobs of 4++ infantry. I don't want ANY army to do that. You'll never use the passion on anything but Celestine and she can't get Simulacrum. Repentia stratagem is a joke Strat for a joke unit.

 

Basically, without sweeping points drops, we may legitimately be the first army in the game to get WORSE after the codex drops.

[Montford]

From a fellow reading the Beta Codex out loud:

 

"Sacred Rose (Conviction): A unit with this conviction may never lose more than a single model from a failed morale test. In addition when firing Overwatch hit on an unmodified 5 or 6."

 

OK not what I expected but nevertheless I am quite pleased with it!

 

I am bummed my Retributors will no longer be able to fire twice per turn. :(

[ERJAK]

Simulcrum being a unit upgrade makes sense. No save difference, also sold in the 10 girl box online. Means i have to get my hands on more...lots more.

Would the upgrade to sacred banner also grant the +1 to faith in addition to the SoF boost?

 

Not liking the sounds of exorcist there. If there was a unit that desperately needed attention, that is it.

Don't bother. It's unlikely that the bonus will be worth the points it costs to take them. Use the Ebon Chalice CT and call it a day.

[A.T.]

Jesus, that's not looking good at all.

 

Salvaged by points cuts? What is there left at this point?

[ERJAK]

Doesn;t seem to be any limit on how many you can use per turn or per unit.

Hand of the emperor Devotion value 4(Bad) +3 inch move

Healer one: 3+ Recover D3 wounds or revive a model(Solid)

Defense one: 3+ 4++ against Psychic wounds(okay)

4++1 to hit(good but snore)

Autopass moral(poor)

 

simul is 10pts so 20 for dominions.

 

Celestine points: 160pts. AND COMPLETELY DESTROYED. Lost a wound, not part of the same unit as the Gemini. Gemini still TWENTY FIVE :cussING POINTS. I don't even give a about the rest of it anymore.

[FallenSoldiers]

Wow.

 

I’m super underwhelmed. I didn’t get excited about anything I just read.

[dracpanzer]

Geminae Superiors are now Elite choices... Interesting.

 

With Warlord Traits you can now double up on either one of Celestines +1 to Shield of Faith or her 4+ roll to gain a Faith Point each turn. Very interesting.

 

Litanies relic (I think?) Allows you to regain a Faith Point on a 5+.

 

There is a stratagem that allows you to spend one CP to gain a Faith Point.

 

I'm liking it.

[A.T.]

Doesn;t seem to be any limit on how many you can use per turn or per unit.

 

It seems to be one use of each faith power per turn - so if you fight twice with one unit you aren't fighting twice with any others.

[ERJAK]

Geminae Superiors are now Elite choices... Interesting.

 

With Warlord Traits you can now double up on either one of Celestines +1 to Shield of Faith or her 4+ roll to gain a Faith Point each turn. Very interesting.

 

Litanies relic (I think?) Allows you to regain a Faith Point on a 5+.

 

There is a stratagem that allows you to spend one CP to gain a Faith Point.

 

I'm liking it.

The Gemini being elites makes them unusable. I'm considering burning mine to be honest. They're worse than a seraphim superior but priced like they still matter.

 

Celestine is gutted. I'm likely going to be the only one to take her in ANY list. She lost a wound for no reason, her healing tears ability is useless, she's still mediocre in combat and with Acts of Faith being terrible now, she's largely pointless. At 160pts she's an absolute joke. Trajann and Draigo are only 20pts more expensive despite being superior in EVERY SINGLE WAY. There's honestly no place for her in the army now. I'm going to still take her because I love Celestine, but she'll be a 160pt noose around the army's neck from here on out.

 

She's worse than a space marine captain with Jumppack, powerfist, Stormshield despite being like 40pts more expensive.

 

Regaining AoF points won't matter, they're pretty bad. You won't use the passion hardly ever, +3 inches to movement isn't worth rolling the dice, resurrecting a model is w/e, the psychic defense won't even happen against some armies and you'll never really need the morale one. You only need 3-5 Faith points TOTAL PER GAME to use every useful AoF. Trading a CP for a faith point would be like trading an Aston martin for a Pinto.

 

The army is worse than it was in the index. Straight up.

[Montford]

 

Doesn;t seem to be any limit on how many you can use per turn or per unit.

 

It seems to be one use of each faith power per turn - so if you fight twice with one unit you aren't fighting twice with any others.

 

 

I'll wait until I get the CA. I have found that most YouTubers, even the ones experienced at 40K, don't really know the Sisters. As of last month Spikey Bits still thinks the Sisters are part of the Inquisition! Acts of Faith are definitely more like they have been traditionally. The Acts themselves are not as powerful as they were in the Index. I'll have to see how everything works together to determine if the Beta is an improvement.

 

I did note that Healing Tears, according to the fellow reading in the video, can be used to heal Geminae -OR- resurrect one. That is handy in maintaining Celestine.

[dracpanzer]

My point about Geminae being moved to Elites is that they could be used without Celestine (nearby or at all) and basicly become a 25pt Canoness with jump pack. Perhaps no longer being named character they can take Relics, and pull off their own AoF and pull off vessel amongst your Seraphim squads. We were fielding 40pt Imagifers before, now we get 25pt Jump Pack Palatines.

[taikishi]

Except the Geminae only have a 6++ unless they're within 6" of Celestine, then she improves their Shield of Faith by +2 instead of +1.

[ERJAK]

 

 

Doesn;t seem to be any limit on how many you can use per turn or per unit.

 

It seems to be one use of each faith power per turn - so if you fight twice with one unit you aren't fighting twice with any others.

 

 

I'll wait until I get the CA. I have found that most YouTubers, even the ones experienced at 40K, don't really know the Sisters. As of last month Spikey Bits still thinks the Sisters are part of the Inquisition! Acts of Faith are definitely more like they have been traditionally. The Acts themselves are not as powerful as they were in the Index. I'll have to see how everything works together to determine if the Beta is an improvement.

 

I did note that Healing Tears, according to the fellow reading in the video, can be used to heal Geminae -OR- resurrect one. That is handy in maintaining Celestine.

 

No it isn't. You're never going to bring Gemini. They're a separate, incredibly overcosted unit that has to move, charge, run, etc separately from Celestine and doesn't benefit from instances where Celestine uses The passion. Also, if they die, they're DEAD. Celestine can only bring 1 back. Would you pay 50 points for two seraphim superior with powerswords? Because I won't.

 

Celestine herself lost: 9 inches of movement, a wound, being immune to snipers, the ability to use AoFs(the passion is a 5+ roll she can't boost), and literally everything she could use her gemini for(think of everytime they blocked 4 wounds, died, and then got back up. Can't do that anymore) and only went down 60pts. She's barely 100pts worth of model now and they're still pricing her like she's not a shadow of what she used to be.

[ERJAK]

My point about Geminae being moved to Elites is that they could be used without Celestine (nearby or at all) and basicly become a 25pt Canoness with jump pack. Perhaps no longer being named character they can take Relics, and pull off their own AoF and pull off vessel amongst your Seraphim squads. We were fielding 40pt Imagifers before, now we get 25pt Jump Pack Palatines.

 

The biggest problem with the strategy you've suggested is...what AoF? And what units, because seraphim aren't a great option. Dominions don't want to be that close to each other, Seraphim aren't very good without the ability to double move and will likely never get a chance to shoot if they rock up with a gemini behind them. Even if 3 units of inferno pistol seraphim DID get within 6" of a valuable target while also staying close enough to each other and to a miraculously still alive 2 wound battle sister, would the +1 to hit they get be worth 3CP, purchasing 3 likely overcosted units, AND spending 25pts on essentially nothing? Repentia and Crusaders are still not going to see any play and even if they did you'd just use a priest or mistress. Retributors and Battle sisters will just use a canoness for reroll 1s. There's no niche for a gemini to fit in, even as a cheap, but still wildly overpriced, jumppack canoness.

[taikishi]

Calling them Canoness is generous. They only have a 6++ if you don't take Celestine or if they're not within 6" of her.

[Ficinus]

Winters SEO's video (here) is not great, but he seems to suggest that the Exorcist has gone up to D6 damage. He says it's unchanged, but also says it's damage D6, so who knows which is true.

 

Like almost everyone else here, I'm not happy with the new Acts of Faith.  The move one is garbage compared to the old one, the shooting one is significantly worse compared to the old one, the close combat one is too hard to get, the wounds one is unchanged but harder to get, and who cares about the psychic and morale one.  It's just really so disappointing, but at least I don't have to worry about tailoring my army to generate Faith Points because they're pretty darn bad.

[Purifying Tempest]

I still think you're underestimating the power of Celestines sword.  A Heavy Flamer and a STR 7 2D sword ringing someone's bell 6 times.  In melee she is still nasty.  I never used the Geminae, so that won't change anything for me... my Celestine sits as a Living Saint in my army, and she doesn't have body guards =P

[Beams]

So, uh, just initial impression, but our army went from mid tier to bottom tier, right?

[taikishi]

video also says the Exorcist is d6 damage. So... one buff to the entire army? Hooray?