Medjugorje Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 At first of all, not all leaks are out now. But a lot of weapons - especially combat and special weapons are cheaper then before. Dreads drops 10-30 points ( Venerabee 10, normal 20 and the new Primaris 30 ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Stormshield 2pts per non Charakter, 10 for chats. Noch chabg to thubderhammer or Power claws sadly Relic blade might be worth it for 9 pts now. Bikes go down to 21pts. Dread 60pts, ven 80pts. Dread ccw 33pts. AssCan 22pts still. Rocketlauncher untouched I think. Grimaldus 120 to 90,Helbrecht 170 to 150 Landspeeder 50pts, typhoon launcher 38 Razorback 87 to 70, tlc 50 to 40. So 133 to 110 for Razorback with laser. Terminators to 23 pper Model as we knew. Lrc to 200 http://imgur.com/gallery/d8Ae4TN Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5208962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Ven dread is 80 not 70 Hammernators getting a total of 6 points drop is ok, still not going make them where they need to be. I'm excited about the LR drop though. Also relic blades for 9 points? Hell yeah! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 This makes my 7 dreadnoughts pretty happy and while the land raider point drops still make them a bit expensive Im tempted to bring 3 again in the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cognative Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 This makes my 7 dreadnoughts pretty happy and while the land raider point drops still make them a bit expensive Im tempted to bring 3 again in the future. I'm playing a 7500 game on Thursday and we might be using CA points. I sure hope so, because I'm bringing 5 land raiders and 10 dreadnoughts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Thanks acebaur, edited it Combi melta 19 to 15 Combi Plasma 15 to 11 Melta gun 17 to 14 Plasma gun 13 to 10 Flamer 9 to 6 Power fist 12 to 9 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea-People Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 So far this changes... pretty much nothing sadly. Templars are still playing with one hand tied behind your back. There would need to be something drastic for a more CC focused army to work in a primarily shooting codex. Vigilus has a lot on its shoulders, whatever detachment is there needs to compensate for 1. No psychic phase (and little defense against it) 2. Mediocre to awful close combat units 3. No bonus to shooting in a shooting-oriented codex Basically it needs to answer the question "So why not just play this army as Chapter X?" And the answer cannot be "because its fluffy and cool." I can paint the figures however I want, I'd like to use their rules too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 I think you're probably putting too much on the shoulders of this expansion. I really doubt one formation will turn all of those problems around. Point drops alone certainly won't. Still, happy about the Grim and Helbrecht discounts. Grim and Champion are both pretty solid and cheap now. Helbrecht is still a touch pricey but you get what you pay for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cognative Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Thunderfire Cannons drop 24 points a model more than most people realized. Servo-arms went down to 0 points from 12, the Tech Marine Gunner has 2 of em. Could also make cheap heavy weapons squads with servitor squads, which I'm happy about as I have like 15 of them. They won't be competitive but it's neat. Also cheap elite choices for opening up relic slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriwolf Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 *edit* sorry,was thinking this was in the above section :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruor Vault Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Thunderfire Cannons drop 24 points a model more than most people realized. Servo-arms went down to 0 points from 12, the Tech Marine Gunner has 2 of em. Could also make cheap heavy weapons squads with servitor squads, which I'm happy about as I have like 15 of them. They won't be competitive but it's neat. Also cheap elite choices for opening up relic slots. It's actually more of a drop than that! Plasma cutter dropped 2pts and the Flamer dropped 3pts! 29pts total! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted December 7, 2018 Author Share Posted December 7, 2018 I think you're probably putting too much on the shoulders of this expansion. I really doubt one formation will turn all of those problems around. Point drops alone certainly won't. Still, happy about the Grim and Helbrecht discounts. Grim and Champion are both pretty solid and cheap now. Helbrecht is still a touch pricey but you get what you pay for. hope was the first step to..... you said. I am very sad to say that you was right. My biggest hope was changes that Neophytes get -1 or -2 points down because they cannot use the special rule why normal scouts are played. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Well my deliberately awful 1750 tournament list is now 1707. My 2 land raiders list is now 1814 from 2000. So the unplayable is has been barely buffed. I guess I could just take terminators, land raiders and bikes to have a 'most improved' list. I guess I should just dump my marines troops and have vanguard vets in my land raider crusaders supporting my guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arigatous Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 My new project is as follows: Land Raider Crusader (264 pts) filled with: Chaplain Grimaldus (90) Techmarine with power fist (54) 2 Honor Guards with relic blades (60) 3*4 Servitors (60) That's 22 power weapons attacks (3 or d3 wounds each) with re-rolls to hit which will generate ±4 extra attacks because of Grimaldus, with a lot of small additional benefits on board like LR repairing or intercepting wounds for characters. That melee force on average takes down Pask in one round which is perfectly comparable to the unit of TH/SS Assault Termies of the same cost 0_o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 @Cognative: pics or it didn't happen :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cognative Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 @Cognative: pics or it didn't happen :lol: The 7500 game? I'll make sure to get some, going to revive my crusade thread with them ::thumbsup:: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Well my deliberately awful 1750 tournament list is now 1707. My 2 land raiders list is now 1814 from 2000. So the unplayable is has been barely buffed. I guess I could just take terminators, land raiders and bikes to have a 'most improved' list. I guess I should just dump my marines troops and have vanguard vets in my land raider crusaders supporting my guard. The math hasn’t changed really that much. When we compare ourselves to Vangaurd, a Crusader Squad still only play 4 points for 1 Strength 4 AP 0 Attack. A Vangaurd is paying 3.5 points for 1 strength 4 AP 0 attack. Just so we are clear on that. A tide list is honestly barely affected by the Vangaurd change. Like don’t get me wrong here, our Crusader Squads do get worse. But ultimately the reality is that 0.5 points in efficiency for raw strength 4 attacks, is not that big of a deal. As compared to Tide Squads Vangaurd remain Glass Cannons. The point is now they are actually viable assault units. Or put it another way. You only paying the additional point for the extra attack. Previously you paid +3 points for what was a single attack over a regular marine chassis with no increase in defense. Which result in them being drastically overpointed. Secondly, drop pods. At 65 points a model. Makes a whole wealth of strategies now more reasonable. Using our own tide squads as an example. You lose 5 men (so about 60 points) now suddenly you are no longer walking! It’s now a reasonably costed. Another way to look at it. 10 Pack Vangaurd Cost 170, vs 9 Packless cost 126. 6 points more get a drop pod. Secondly Relic Blades being only 9 points is a massive deal. While still mostly worse than fists or hammers. It does mean if Honor Gaurd get fixed to be 2-10, for 34 points a model we have an incredibly reasonably durable unit. Even if they don’t at 66 points for 4 points to give a character hiding them in a Pod etc. Also Grimaldus is PLAYABLE Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Well since we still have no idea what our detachment might do for us what do you guys think of the Indomitus Crusaders? Personally I think its incredibly CP intensive but it does make a close combat focused Primaris force be a real possibility, all the stratagems are decent to good and with Grimaldus we could be doubling their attacks with the Liberators stratagem and Grimaldus both interacting at the same time so 6s to hit would equal to 4 attacks instead of 1 for a total of 6 attacks (or 12 if you roll three 6s). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 The Indomitus package is largely too CP intense for my tastes. Unless you go taking Guard as CP batteries, it's not especially sound. Considering that and my beef with Primaris in general I won't be using it, but on paper those are the issues I see. As an aside, Grim and Helbrecht were already viable but hard to justify at times. Now Grim is an easy choice at least. 150 for a character is a lot but supporting the right units Helbrecht pays back on that investment in spades. The cost cut to assault terminators looks a touch unimpressive though. I still have a cataphractii squad, cataphractii captain and chaplain terminator on my desk, which I abandoned (along with all my painting, really) as a project when GW told me deep striking was too fun for their liking :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydonianDragoon404 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 What does CA change for us? In my opinion, nothing. Everyone else, including the already very competitive Guard, Tyranid, Eldar, and Thousand Sons codexes got points drops comparable to ours and we still dont have army wide chapter tactics. I thought mechancius were in a pretty good spot too, and they got massive point reductions. I laughed when I saw that Bellisarius Cawl got 50 points cheaper. Utter madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I think anyone who was expecting miracles from CA was expecting too much. CA will never be able to do that, it's not what it is for. Marines need a new dex for those kind of changes and as GW's flagship army they hopefully should. That said, I think that the changes in CA are solid for us. We got drops in places that definitely needed it, even if some of them weren't enough. The highlights for me are: Land Raiders - They got a huge drop which will let us keep fielding them and have room for more things to stuff inside them Helbrecht and Grim both got nice drops along with Dreads of all types, including a healthy one on the Redemptor. Drop pods got a decent one too, but really I think they need to be 50 points max Veterans saw a small drop which becomes big when you start adding up the weapons they will take, things like Storm Shields, Relic Blades, combi weapons etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 What does CA change for us? In my opinion, nothing. Everyone else, including the already very competitive Guard, Tyranid, Eldar, and Thousand Sons codexes got points drops comparable to ours and we still dont have army wide chapter tactics. I thought mechancius were in a pretty good spot too, and they got massive point reductions. I laughed when I saw that Bellisarius Cawl got 50 points cheaper. Utter madness. Well one thing that changed is that it's a touch cheaper to fill out formations, especially with Primaris units. Keeping Marine and Neophyte point costs the same sorta underlines that point. Regardless, shaving some points off our most expensive units means they can more easily be squeezed in for double Battalions or whatnot. Does it flip the script, rock the world and shake things up? Hell no. It's point reductions. I don't know why anyone ever expected anything more than that, to be honest. Vigilus may change things a bit more, depending on the quality of the available formations for us. Still, the odds of Templars suddenly becoming an uber competitive army are quite, quite low. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydonianDragoon404 Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 One thing I will say is that it does improve our situation facing Dark Eldar and Orks. Both of those factions did not get any point decreases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Vespasian Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 I think it depends on vigilus alot now. I did two battalliobs already, now with points won I ahould be able to push my elites into an extra vanguard detacent for Even more cp. The question now is do I want to run indominatus crusaders? Or are the templar brethren dope? Or do I actually want to run both? ALlso depends on the relics and warlord traits we get with indominatus and/or sword brethren detachment. I felt were bt/marines were lacking were special rules. If we get some more possibilities for buff bubbles via warlord trait/stratagems, this might be rectified. Also: might get grimaldus and Helbrecht now, but have to figure out where I stand in regards to painting right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arigatous Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 While we’re still waiting for Vigilus I should anyway tell that Astartes soup is now MUCH deadlier due to overall reduction of special character costs. Now a soup supreme command detachment like EC + Lemartes + LS Samael + Voldus + etc makes a huge competitive sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352170-what-does-ca-change-for-us/#findComment-5209909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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