Consensus about Chapter Approved 18?

[templargdt]

So, the leaks have dropped.  What's the consensus about what has changed for good or ill?

[durdle-durdle]

Points drops are nice, but it doesn’t actually make marines really any better. Reducing some points costs doesn’t fix the problems inherent with marines.

 

The cost reduction on land raiders, repulsors, and redemptor s are all nice. My primaris chapter i’m Working on is going to keep using deathwatch tactics though, until a cheap transport becomes a thing to put them in the middle of the board.

[Firepower]

Point adjustments were about all I expected.  I dunno why people expected much more than that, to be honest.  I'm a bit disappointed in some reductions and surprised by others, but all in all it's about as much as could be expected.

 

The one payoff I can see aside from the obvious is that detachments will be a touch easier to fill out, which is important for a CP starved purist Marine army, especially with the incoming CP intensive detachments in Vigilus.

[autek mor]

initially i was pretty hyped, after toying around with the options in reductions i came to realise after several hours that still some more reductions are needed top balance the book. maxed out raiders and repulsors of which i do appreciate the reductions come up to near the same cost so it then becomes a matter of what you want to transport as to what you want to get out of your list. the biggest winners for me are the now cheaper mortis contemptor dreads with cheaper twin las and cheaper cyclone missile launcher. for a few more points you can go full relic instead and still get six BS2 anti tank shots for around the same price as a xiphon interceptor.

[Panzer]

Candy instead of meat. Unless you were playing with lots of the more expensive stuff like Repulsors and such not much will change for your Marine list I fear.

[Captain Idaho]

Points have helped a bunch but the real boost to Marines will come from the new Formations.

 

What points changes have helped is internal balance and made most Marines support units very cheap. Have you seen the cost of an Ironclad? 132pts for a Chainfist and Hurricane Bolter then either a Meltagun or Heavy Flamer. Yum.

 

It's when you combine the new Formations with these points drops we'll see the greatest impact. The Ultramarines at least have a solid punch now and with points reductions they have the command points and numbers to do it.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't have had 2 small blurbs of additional rules to help...

 

Something like Astartes sized weapons that boosts Bolters to +1 Strength in rapid fire range and 2nd paragraph that Superhuman Physiology ignores a single point of AP.

[autek mor]

Points have helped a bunch but the real boost to Marines will come from the new Formations.

 

What points changes have helped is internal balance and made most Marines support units very cheap. Have you seen the cost of an Ironclad? 132pts for a Chainfist and Hurricane Bolter then either a Meltagun or Heavy Flamer. Yum.

 

It's when you combine the new Formations with these points drops we'll see the greatest impact. The Ultramarines at least have a solid punch now and with points reductions they have the command points and numbers to do it.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't have had 2 small blurbs of additional rules to help...

 

Something like Astartes sized weapons that boosts Bolters to +1 Strength in rapid fire range and 2nd paragraph that Superhuman Physiology ignores a single point of AP.

 

i would be all over that ironclad dread if drop pods were a lot cheaper. on the positive side of things i do agree with you about the formations to a certain extent.

 

just a bold prediction here, i expect to see a lot more twin las razorbacks.

[Captain Idaho]

Biggest problem is the formations aren't all equal. The Imperial Fists Formation looks a bit limp, for example.

[Subtleknife]

I wasnt expecting it but they wont fix astartes with points alone. They need further rules i.e reduce incoming damage by 1 to a min of 1 and the reduction of ap by the same. And you will also need a buff to the bolter.

 

I do like the reduction to primaris although i am slight baffled by having no change to regular marine troops, seems like scouts are even more of an auto include.

[Panzer]

reduce incoming damage by 1 to a min of 1 

I still don't get what people hope to achieve with that. Marines only have 1 wound so multi-damage weapons aren't the problem and reducing damage to a minimum of 1 will still kill them as efficiently as it's currently the case.

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

reduce incoming damage by 1 to a min of 1

I still don't get what people hope to achieve with that. Marines only have 1 wound so multi-damage weapons aren't the problem and reducing damage to a minimum of 1 will still kill them as efficiently as it's currently the case.

It would make terminators, bikers, and primaris marines better. All of which I could get behind.

[Terrified Templar]

Definitely a step towards improvement, I am really liking the detachments overall and the point drops but as others have said it's lacking that punch that would have solved the inherent problems of the space marine codex. 

[Dracos]

If I’m not mistaken the Detachment are Vigilus and Points are Chapter Approved. Easy to meld the two considering the release dates but probably should have separate threads.

 

 

Between CA and FAQ2, I’m a tad salty about the rule changes that have affected the Raven Guard. I’ll get over it of course. Quicker when a real Primaris Codex ever gets released. Not holding my breath :)

 

I appreciate the point drops but still not sold on the Repulsor as a “transport”. I want Humvees not Bradleys or Strykers.

[Subtleknife]

 

 

reduce incoming damage by 1 to a min of 1

I still don't get what people hope to achieve with that. Marines only have 1 wound so multi-damage weapons aren't the problem and reducing damage to a minimum of 1 will still kill them as efficiently as it's currently the case.

Apologies was talking specifically about two wound models like primaris and termies etc for that rule.

 

Also I find it weird that they wait until now to add powerfist etc to intercessor squads when not all have a sprue with it on. I.e ultras only have power dagger thing, fists as far as i can tell only have a powerfist etc. So it cant be they were waiting to have specific sprues with it all on. Dont see if why they didnt allow this from the start.

[Ishagu]

Primaris came out very good.

Flamer Aggressors, Intercessors and the Repulsor are all big winners.

 

The Repulsor is now one of the best Astartes vehicles, coming out at around 300 points with all upgrades which is pretty good for a T8 vehicle with fly and significantly more firepower than any equivalents.

 

Flamer Aggressors, 5 for 180 points is probably about right. This unit is, in my opinion, best with Ultramarine Chapter Tactics as they can flame a unit, assault then leave combat the following turn and use the flamers at full effect.

 

Intercessors are possible the best all round Troop unit Marines have. At 4 points over a Tactical marine and with more options than before. The auxiliary grenade launcher is a free upgrade and the sgt has access to a variety of melee weapons that are worthwhile thanks to his 3 base attacks. Truly a resilient objective holder that can whittle down light infantry at a distance and in combat.

 

I'm now able to run a more significant army focusing on Primaris and will write out a few lists shortly.

I don't feel they've hit top tier or that they would shift the meta, but are definitely more viable as a mid tier army.

 

Regular Astartes have received significant drops, especially Veterans units. The Tactical Marines remain the same but thanks to wargear cost reductions a typical 5 man unit is around 8 points cheaper which is actually a higher drop than what the Primaris Intercessors got!

[spessmarine]

Primaris did great.

Stuff like Sternguard and Centurions benefited too. Stuff like Tacticals, nada. Yeah, anything that has a direct Primaris counterpart, don't expect it to be competitive ever it seems.

[Ishagu]

Primaris did great.

Stuff like Sternguard and Centurions benefited too. Stuff like Tacticals, nada. Yeah, anything that has a direct Primaris counterpart, don't expect it to be competitive ever it seems.

Well their wargear dropped in price so the most common loadouts are indeed cheaper.

 

A 5 man Tac squad with twin plasma is now 10 points cheaper. This is a pretty big deal

[Kallas]

A 5 man Tac squad with twin plasma is now 10 points cheaper. This is a pretty big deal

It doesn't help that the basic Marine is crap, though.

[Ishagu]

Were you expecting core stat changes? That was never on the cards.

 

87 points for 5 marines and 2 Plasmas is an improvement on what they were like last week!

[DietOfLiquor]

So. Post CA I’ve now saved roughly 120 points in my 2k list. But now am looking various different options with my primaris that I may have to swap some things around. Repulsors and redemptor seem legit now. Stalker bolt rifle veterans might very well be worth it. Especially with the rapid fire and target sighted stratagems. Definitely going to be looking into the standard bearer as well to be with them.

[Kallas]

Were you expecting core stat changes? That was never on the cards.

 

87 points for 5 marines and 2 Plasmas is an improvement on what they were like last week!

Expecting it? No.

Did they need some kind of robust change? Yes.

 

And yes, upgrade costs going down is fine if you're packing lots of them, but honestly I've found that even a few weapons add up very quickly. Knocking a few points off is obviously better but it isn't much at all - and it's definitely not enough.