Chapter Approved '18: Beaky Bois edition (discussion thread)

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

So, nearly the entirety of Chapter Approved was spoiled yesterday. Here is the imgur link from the News & Rumor forum: https://imgur.com/a/QjcQNVK

 

So, what's everyone's thoughts? Biggest winner? Biggest loser?

 

Obviously as a general statement, nothing in our book got nerf'd, its just straight buffs (from a cost perspective).

 

Biggest winner (for me): I think its Dreads. As most of you know, I use a lot of Twin Las dreads as my backfield fire support, and boy oh boy the CA changes help that a lot:

 

Ven Dread with TLLC/ML is 16% Cheaper (25 Points)

Reg Dread with TLLC/ML is 17% Cheaper

My personal fav: Mortis Contemptor 2xTLLC 19% Cheaper (38 Points)

 

Biggest Loser: Its a toss-up between Shrike and the lowly Tactical Marine.

 

Shrike was one of the select few that did not get a points drop. He obviously still has Captain stats, even though he is a Chapter Master, AND he is is priced nothing like it. Pedro Cantor for example has straight up better aura/rules, better stats, and costs the same (now).

 

Regarding the Tactical Marine (and Devs): It's hard not to read the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about them being phased out. I think the basic tactical marine has one role and one role only anymore: min sized, Special Weapon + Combi-copy on the Sergeant, being deployed via some vehicle (Like Storm Raven or DP). In this context I'm not sure some flavor of Veteran is better anyway. Speaking of which, Drop Pods dropped 20 points, woohoo!

 

Don't everyone worry though:

 

[GreyCrow]

Tactical Marines are still fine. Core role is to get objectives, you don't even have to gear them to get some use out of them.

You need to have a clear idea of where you want them to fit in the battle though, and you need redundancy.

 

So, if you want them to hold back and camp objectives in 5 mean heavy weapons team, you need to make sure ALL your Tacticals have the same loadout. Just so you can cross fire effectively with enough weight to start seeing something.

 

If we remember that the Tacticals are just there to provide off support and effectively force the opponent to dedicate decent firepower in shifting them from objectives, it means our heavier hitters are not threatened as much.

And we're not disappointed :D

 

Biggest winners for me are Landspeeders. Massive points drop because they were overpriced.

I'm looking at 500pts army lists, and now thinking that you can have

HQ

3 x 5 Naked tactical Squads

2 Landspeeder Typhoons

 

This fills me with immense joy!

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, the best thing for Tacticals, is Combat Squads. Flamer or Plasma and matching Combi in one, and 4 Bolters with a Missile Launcher or Heavy Bolter camping a backfield objective. I actually prefer spreading around the Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters, rather than having them all in one Devastator Squad. Still not sure why Heavy Bolters are not in the Tactical box.

[Brother Quixote]

I've only had time for a quick look at the units that concern me and the winner for me is my Vanguard Vets.  I'm not going to break it down fully but my 2000pts list just went down by 132pts, 54pts of which is vanguard.

Granted I do go power weapon heavy and have 15 in my list, but still.

 

Rather than being a single winner, it seems it's more of a small weapons cost changes adding up over the whole codex.

 

Other items you may have missed:

Cerberus launcher 0pts - Land Speeder Storms are 80points

Whirlwind weapons down by 10pts/14pts (Castellan/Vengeance)

Relic blades 9pts

Eviscerator 11pts

Missile Launcher 20pts (This is an important one in my opinion)

Scout bikes (down 2pts) and astartes grenade launchers (down 5pts)

 

And nudging Race awake:

Land Raiders 200pts

Centurion Devastators 40pts

 

*Edited because maths without calculators is hard.

[thewarriorhunter]

I don't know how you guys can even read that stuff... I must be getting old :(

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

As someone that plays multiple armies... literally nothing got me excited to play marines again.  None of the core issues were addressed...

 

1.  Marines arent durable enough.  CA didnt change this at all.

 

2. Bolters suck.  CA didnt change this at all.

 

My imperial guard on the other hand are vastly stronger.  My guard list is at least 200 points cheaper and has access to some very strong detachment options.  Marines will continue to collect dust until a new codex comes out.  Hopefully they get a new team to write it. 

[Johanhgg]

Theres no hint that -1 to hit is changed? Ive tried to read up on every thread about CA but have yet to find any info about that.

[duz_]

There were no new rules changes in CA that we weren't already aware of

So we still maintain our current CT

 

Although I am against horde Marines, I would have liked to see tacticals maybe drop a point or 2 just to make them viable

I am excited to see that storm shield drop some points though and terminators :D
I'm going have to pick up some lighting claw ones soon to mix in with my TH/SS ;)

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I dont think anyone is so disillusioned to think that these minor points drops are going to fix the core issues with the codex. That doesn't mean we can't have a productive discussion about what we did get :)

 

BQ: I missed the Cerberus, Whirlwind, and Eviscerator. Good catches.

 

I did notice the scout bikers, which is nice.

 

I think a lot of these reductions made a mono-RG Battalion Build more viable.

 

Also: Since the new formations (and their corresponding Strategems) happen "before the battles begins", that makes me wonder whe "the battle begins". If you can do it after deployment, but before first turn, could be fun to have a RG batt, Blood Angel batt, and Guard loyal 32, with both CP relics. Between all the SFTS and Intercessor upgrades, you could get a good chunk of those CPs back, depending on the timing

[Jacques Corbin]

So, for me, I am excited that Thunderfire Cannons got cheaper as a unit, by 29 points!

[Nusquam]

I'm concerned for my beakies. I like the points drops but it seems my particular style of Raptor lists is being edged out by Primaris. I like Primaris, don't get me wrong; I'm making a Primaris DW army. I just have so many regular Marines left behind.

 

I'm glad we didn't lose our CT and StftS. Should they go the only thing I'd have going is Issodons group huddle into deepstrike; which is good but has it's limitations. Plus I don't want to use it as a crutch.

 

Tactical marines needed a rule like "Tactical Supremacy: this unit always controls an objective even if a unit with a similar ability is nearby." Suddenly Tacs are relevant.

 

I like that drop pods got cheaper but they still suffer mechanically; their PL counts against you and spending CP to deepstrike in other codices is better. They need Drop Pod Assault back so half can strike turn one.

[ShinyRhino]

I've not dissected the leaks, but Speeders and their weaponry getting big drops is huge for me. I have four of them painted and magnetized. I used to run them out of stubbornness, but now I can run them stubbornly and cheaply.

Combine that with the Whirlwind drops and Datalink Telemetry got even better as a Stratagem.

 

Assault Marines got marginally cheaper as well, yes? I run twenty of those.

 

Centurion Devastators reduced by half is also big, making them actually usable. I'll likely paint and magnetize those weapons now. CentDevs that can spit out Hellfire Shells? Sure!

[Claws and Effect]

I'm doing my upcoming Knights of the Raven army as mostly Primaris with regular Marines to fill in the gaps.

 

I have plans to field 3 5-strong units of Company Vets on bikes with power lances led by a Chaplain on a bike to represent The Unseen Spears. It just feels appropriate for a Knight-like Chapter to have mounted Lancers.

[thewarriorhunter]

Very cool. I'd love to do bikes but I don't know how I feel about them being in my army. I do have one attack bike that I'll probably build eventually, it might make a good harassing/kamikaze unit. I ride a blue V-strom in real life so maybe I'll paint it up to match my real life ride.

[Claws and Effect]

Very cool. I'd love to do bikes but I don't know how I feel about them being in my army. I do have one attack bike that I'll probably build eventually, it might make a good harassing/kamikaze unit. I ride a blue V-strom in real life so maybe I'll paint it up to match my real life ride.

I'm using Ravenwing bikes. The bikes will be silver and the winged cowl/windshield will be black. I found some cool lances for them on Shapeways.

 

Now I just need to budget the money for 6 boxes of them......