Prot Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I really struggled in 8th with my Admech, but I'll say up front I played 'pure' Admech almost 90% of the time. In fact if it wasn't "Mars" I didn't use it. That's just how I roll with my armies. I did the point adjustments and out of all my armies I was most excited to try Admech post points reductions. They had the most to gain in my opinion. So basically what I did was take my typical list, add 'bonuses' and approximately this is what it looked like: Also I will add in my opinion on a scale of 1 to 5, how well the unit functions post CA (at least in this game). Cawl the Baller (Rank : 4) Dominus (Rank 3.5) Tech Priest (Rank 4 - so cheap now) 7 Vanguard dual Cavalier (Rank 3.5 (still massive leadership issues)) 7 Rangers dual Arquebus (same as above) - I have the worst luck in the planet with these things and I cannot do a thing ... to this date... with the Arquebus. 3 Plasma Destroyers. ( Rank 3.5 ) Still not worth it for me. (I would have ranked them a 3 pre-CA) Dragoons. (Rank 4.5) They are unchanged as far as I know. They still make every non-ally list I make. Ballistari (Rank 2.5) I slid one in because of point reductions and wanted to try. I still think they're dysfunctional. 10 Fulgurite Priests (Rank 3) Good, not great. Wrath of Mars makes them work when you probably wouldn't bother otherwise. 10 Sicaran Infiltrators (Rank 3.5) They were a 3, but reductions make them a better option. Kastellan Robots Shooty (Rank 3.5) Still a huge target even unchanged. Dunecrawler (rank 3.5) still a good value. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I ended up getting matched up against the new Orks and I knew it would be a very hard match up. Long story short I was nearly tabled by turn 3. I suffered the same fate this army always has... no table ownership, collapse under pressure, no psyhic resistance. Close combat, boot filling moments. Probably the most disappointing thing I could take from the entire game without worrying about 'odds' or 'bad luck' or whatever is I was clearly distracted by the fact I was completely outshot. It blows me away the volume of shots the Ork army gets, and combined with strats the rather poor quality of that shooting improves markedly so. Orks had first turn and Lootas took down 2.5 of my 3 Kastellan Robots. Most of one Dunecrawler, and 1.5 Plasma Destroyers! Turn 1 I try to push back. Priests are the best thing in my list by a country mile. I create a 'human' wall of Jazz Hands to prevent the mass of trucks that are coming in. The Jazz Hands blew up 2 trucks, and killed several occupants. You'd think that was good; however, the Orks are extremely numerous and it felt like a teaspoon of water out of an ocean. By Turn 3 I had nothing left of consequence. I found the Lootas and Tank bustas out shot me overall with the flyers (dakka jets) and his characters hit hard. The speed of the trucks and that new WarTrike was something I couldn't really prevent. Essentially I was: - out shot - out maneuvered - out assaulted - and of course out psykered! At the end of the day I don't think the point reductions are a big enough band aid. I think the points saved will just make more points available for your Knights. For the record this was one of the stronger, pure lists I think I could put together. I would rank my opponent's Ork list at about a 6-7 out of 10 in terms of going all out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Thanks for the feedback Prot What point size was this game? 2k points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Yup watched my buddy fight orcs. Hitting always on 6 and then extra shots, coupled with FREE charge rerolls was insane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 It's a shame that the points changes haven't done much but then again the latest Ork Codex is stupidly good so I'm not sure it's the best "test" army (unless your meta is dominated by Orks). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Sorry, it was a 2 k game. That Ork list I had defeated with my Custodes using only 3 bikes. However the player and myself did not realize how the Dakka Dakka rule worked on unmodified to hit and more dakka of course is the same. The reason I mention that is because I think if we played that game again, I get spanked. Lootas and tank bustas are beyond good now. Like I said they made my AdMech feel outclassed in every respect. Even repairing felt like a waste, as I only got leverage that ability 2 times because what ever he targets is typically going to die. Add in ‘showin’ off’ and I don’t think anything in the codex is going to come close to even a single 15 man loota squad surrounded by 30 Grots. ( tournament lists are mobbing up 2 squads of Lootas in T1 ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Yeah GW makes these games from a fluff standpoint not realizing the power they imbue WAAC and tournament players with. I've yet to play them not sure how I'll do unless I just try and delete grot screen and advance some Stygies guys with the stratagem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 Yeah GW makes these games from a fluff standpoint not realizing the power they imbue WAAC and tournament players with. I've yet to play them not sure how I'll do unless I just try and delete grot screen and advance some Stygies guys with the stratagem. My first games I did the same thing, but I stopped handling it that way because by targeting the Lootas you get the exact same results, except you force your opponent to use a CP. (Although double battalion is super easy to do for them. It's still worth it in my opinion.) Funny thing is it may have ripped my Admech apart, but I soon thought of guys like Magnus/Mortarion/ single Knight.... those units are most likely deleted as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Didn't know it forces a CP. good call good tactic. I'll get my chance here soon enough I'm sure! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Ballistari are a cheap weapons platform, if you need to add in some lascannons or some autocannons then you add one at very little cost but I would always add the more costly units like the Dunecrawler or Bots first if I had the points. Cawl is cawl, you take him if you are mars, Dominus I let shadow my advancing Vanguard and then I take Enginseers to fill up and they repair in the back. They have no offensive power really. The biggest problem I have is I like to dual Forgeworld and getting my HQ to be able to actually do the job I want them to do is hard, a stygies cannot repair a mars crawler. I also have to take one Duneccrawler as Stygies because of my Mars bots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfast Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 I played against orks last week and I was also surprised that they shoot more then me! Dont know how I will defete them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I played against orks last week and I was also surprised that they shoot more then me! Dont know how I will defete them? A meta heavy in anti-Knight or anti-Primarch play will obviously struggle with the numerous "board-control" gameplay that Orks can throw down. Adaptation will involve volume of fire, removing the fat and not depending on "wonder models" to carry a flank. Essentially, we need "moar doodz" if we want to cope with Ork bodies, and you also need to consider that melee is going to happen and be ready for that. Orks can pull volume of fire and attacks, so you can't camp a corner and hope to wear them down. Instead, work to counter what's most threatening to your key units and take advantage of cover/terrain to mitigate Orky numbers (force them to engage with less models, give them less targets vulnerable to their key firepower). Also, don't be afraid to go all-in with your fast-strike or deep strike elements to nullify squishier Ork firebases accordingly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I’m curious to know how you are using wrath of mars on fulgrite electro priests? Or did you mean the corpuscari ones? I know some factions can do trickery like ynari to fight in unintended phases etc but not sure if we can do that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I had already invested in a substantial Knight presence for my AdMech. The point reductions are allowing me to add more Mars units and I'm very happy about it. The Tech Priest Engineseer is so cheap now, him and Cawl are only setting me back 220 points between them. I've not had opponents focus fire my Kastelan Robots in the initial turns, probably because there's a Castellan Knight in my list lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5211936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 I've not had opponents focus fire my Kastelan Robots in the initial turns, probably because there's a Castellan Knight in my list lol Target saturation is a workable strategy. If you give your opponent enough reasonably dangerous targets, they're likely to make a mistake in prioritizing appropriately. Especially if you make one a bit more obvious than the others :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5212681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Sounds like you where just unlucky with the robo saves?. 2,5 dead dakka bot would = 54 wounding hits from lootas on average. With you having a 2+ save first turn even with the -1. sounds like you rolled poorly or the ork player was super lucky. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5213192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 Well all I can say is he rolled 3 shots each and fired them twice with more dakka. I felt like the 2 damage did me in. I do recall his more Dakka being very good. Honestly I never mathhammer. It just rarely clicks with me. And as far as luck.... as good ol” Rodney Dangerfield used to say, “if it wasn’t for bad luck, I’d have no luck at all”. :tu: As far as Knights... I absolutely agree, but Knights are the easy way out. I have quite a few options there but I just wanted to take a point reduced list out for an acid test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5213241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Damn, that sucks to hear mate - though even with the point reductions I think it's basically just summed up with Codex Creep. Orks are the latest codex on the cutting edge of 8th Develoment, Ad Mech were under powered when they came out month beforehand. Orks also have a massive pool of units to choose from, the worst of which have all been bought up in line with other units. Their weakness, unreliable shooting can basically be eliminated for CP now so they're in a very strong place. Meanwhile Ad Mech are solidly middle of the road with nothing too interesting and somewhat low durability across the army, our firepower isn't even really on par with Orks in most cases. I think using a Knight is basically a must in Ad Mech to bring the big guns, or at least some Helverins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5213814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 Hey guys, I thought I should revisit this thread as I reloaded my list from this game and found it coming in at about 1800 points. So what I've done is kick out the Ballistarii (never been a big fan), removed the Corpuscarii Priests (I hate to do this as I love my blue man group). And this allowed me to put in two Armiger Warglaives and add a 4th Dragoon. I'm going to give this list another shot with those adjustments. I found I reluctantly cannot compete in my meta while staying wholly within the typical codex units. Again, a big part of that is board control as we play Maelstrom or objective based 40K 90% of the time. In the past I've used Armigers intermittently. I'm really hoping this helps turn the corner as I have painted so much of it and do enjoy the units/background. I am also a bit surprised we haven't seen more forum activity in favour of Admech. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I am also a bit surprised we haven't seen more forum activity in favour of Admech. Well...maybe we should open an 8th edition version of the Hard Data topic? That was always useful and interesting, pooling battle reports and observations in one topic, unlike currently spreading it randomly across topics/army projects/list discussions. With the increased army flexibility today (compared to 7th) this might give people ideas, and increase discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I am also a bit surprised we haven't seen more forum activity in favour of Admech. I think this has a variety of factors. SMs just got a ton of interest in CA between the battleforces and Vigilus Specialist Detachments, Knights are still the "primary feature" of AdMech for many players and, to put it simply, AdMech is a pain in the butt to paint. Unlike a lot of factions, there really aren't any shortcuts to an attractive AdMech army, at least not if you want it to look decent. This likely turns off a lot of potential players. Don't get me wrong, the points drops are huge and AdMech certainly looks slightly more viable than before, but missing the "key features" of modern 40k (flyers, transports, or combinations of both) means that we just can't hack it with the firmly established mainstays (SMs, Eldar, and Chaos). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Most of us have our armies set in stone, the points drop just allows us to give them a few extra sparkly toys and maybe an extra few models in the units. I doubt many of us will change our armies so much as to need to discuss it. Being part of the DW and this forum I definetly get the feeling that the Admech players know what their armies can do and do not need to discuss it as much. The biggest discussion you see here is the "Can I take Fist bots yet"! or "Are Rustalkers REALLY that bad?"(Yes Larry, yes they are). Admech is an army that doesn't invite the army of the month crowd so were mostly all vets. The biggest increase in forum traffic was Knights because that is the shinny army of the month. Apart from that we all pretty much all know what works and what doesn't by stats alone, points drop while really nice wont change whats bad in our codex, those units are fundementally lacking and need rules changes. Whats good didn't go up so it is still good. Why do you think we pile on top of each others augmented corpses when a new player comes asking questions, its something to do Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Haha black knight that’s true and it made me laugh. I’m actually trying out a mars brigade with a ton of Rangers to handle hordes. It’s a crazy build that actually doesn’t even have dakkabots. Will it be any good? Probably not. Will it be fun? I hope so! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Yeah the Brigade is a good option now, I would take it in a heartbeat if I wasn't so set on Mars/Stygies. I have tried double battalion but I find I prefer one of them being a Spearhead so I can stick three Dunecrawlers and my bots as Mars. Always feels wierd having two Dunecrawlers as Red and one as Black. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5219704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Although I agree... the thing is I thought I'd see at least some reports of "good news everyone!" Stuff along the line of successful lists, and games happening since CA2. So I'm back at it again after a solid whoopin' by Orks. (This is an Ork list I've beaten with Thousand Sons, and pure Custodes.) What I want to do at first is take those 200 'free' points I just discovered and simply add to my current list 2 armiger warglaives (this means I cut the Balistarii, and jazz hands). Be honest with me.... how many of you don't use any Knights in your "pure" admech lists? Just curious. I think going forward (after this game) I will go with my Preceptor idea and take the Warglaives as well. I will do Krast instead. (I'm just worried about spanking everyone like I did with the Castellan, and my House Raven list). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5220830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I'm running 2 Warglaives and a Castellan with my AdMech. To me the army is pretty thematic this way - My Castellan even has the weapon Cawl's Wrath and he's in the army. Stick to the Heavy Stubber instead of the Melta upgrade, btw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352207-post-ca-game-with-mars-more-points-for-knights/#findComment-5220836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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