Chimeras post Chapter Approved 2018

[HallofStovokor]

 

 

I don't like the idea of not shooting shooting with a model for 1 to 2 turns while it gets in range.

Do people actually shoot with a Chimera while it has troops inside it?

 

I've always thought they'd advance in to get more distance and then pop smoke first turn for the -1 to hit.

advance rolls aren't the best idea with a chimera. 12" plus d6" movement means that you can be where you want on dawn of war deployment, but if you get hammer and anvil you need to drive significantly further. Advancing means that under no circumstances does you chimera get to shoot, not even the lasgun array. Add to that the fact that, for some reason I always end up rolling 1s when I try to advance. And it seems less viable to me.

[TheShredder]

There's no such thing as an average on a D6. A 3 or 4 is just as likely as any other number.

 

That's only true if you only roll it once. Otherwise, the Average is what you get when you divide the sum of all rolls by the number of rolls.

 

If you take a d2 and roll it 100 times, both results could come up exactly 50 times but the average would still be 1.5. 

 

The same applies to a d6. Each individual roll has an even chance of rolling any of the 6 numbers, but over the course of a game the average will tend towards 3.5.

[Wassa]

 

There's no such thing as an average on a D6. A 3 or 4 is just as likely as any other number.

 

That's only true if you only roll it once. Otherwise, the Average is what you get when you divide the sum of all rolls by the number of rolls.

 

If you take a d2 and roll it 100 times, both results could come up exactly 50 times but the average would still be 1.5. 

 

The same applies to a d6. Each individual roll has an even chance of rolling any of the 6 numbers, but over the course of a game the average will tend towards 3.5.

 

 

 

Well in a game we don't have the luxury of rolling for number of shots 100s of times.

I do get annoyed constantly seeing things like "The Basilisk gets 4.5 shots a turn, 5 if it's catachan", and when I roll I get a 2 and a 1 :(

[Tirak]

Well in a game we don't have the luxury of rolling for number of shots 100s of times.

I do get annoyed constantly seeing things like "The Basilisk gets 4.5 shots a turn, 5 if it's catachan", and when I roll I get a 2 and a 1

 

 

Of the course of a game if you don't roll 100d6s then I have to question your guard makeup. The average of a die is an accurate way to analyze how a unit will perform on average. While some players can get carried away with this,to discard it entirely is just as foolhardy.

[Trickstick]

Unless you want to get into things like statistical distributions, standard deviations and suchlike, a simple mean average is a useful guide.

[duz_]

Gents, keep it civil and no need to get into the intricacies of stats and rolling dice, save that for another discussion 

[Colonel Cross]

Regarding Chimeras, what do you actually put inside them?

- Infantry Squads are an obvious choice (being basically mandatory), but they don't really feel worth transporting. Especially when the transport costs more than they do.

- Veterans are possible and might even be worth taking now, though they're stuck in the Elite slot and pay extra for their weapons. 

- Special Weapon Squads can take 3 special weapons, and you can fit 2 such units in a Chimera (albeit leaving no room for characters). Though, as with Veterans, they're Elites.

- Command Squads can take 4 special weapons, and you can have 2 or even 3 in a Chimera. However, I find myself wondering whether Scion Command Squads would be better - as that way you're at least guaranteed a turn of shooting with them.

- Then you've got stuff like Ogryns and the like.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I usually run 7 infantry squads, though that may change now with these CA points adjustments.  I run 3 infantry squads to sit in the back and guard my tanks and artillery.  Then I have 4 transports with infantry squads in them with power swords on SGTs and all of their support characters (some of the squads have special weapons, it depends on points).  I run 3 Chimeras and 1 Taurox (just what I have in my collection) and I think I may toss a veteran squad in the Taurox instead of an infantry squad as a low priority OBJ grabber/distraction unit.  Usually the Taurox sits in my deployment pumping out autocannon fire until I decide where it needs to truck off to.

 

  While it would probably be better for me to just put all of the points from Chimeras into more infantry, the fact I run Straken, a priest, and a CC with a relic blade means that I need ways to get those guys where they're needed and also a way to survive overwatch.  The fact that my opponent is basically only in range of armored targets the first turn allows me to saturate their AT weapons with targets and basically nullify their anti infantry weaponry until I disembark my troops or they get within range of my deployment zone.  These are advantages not to be underestimated.  Additionally, the fact the Chimeras basically get ignored once the troops jump out has allowed me to win several games by moving them to OBJs or jumping troops back inside to protect kill points, etc.  They provide versatility.  Now I know troops can MMM and things like that with orders but I play against a lot of opponents who have no trouble just mulching dozens of guardsmen a turn.  Without transports I usually have no way to hold OBJs late game.  Also take note I don't play ITC so keep that in mind.  

 

I've also used a Valk before with a special weapon squad with 3 demo charges, a command squad with 4 meltas, and a platoon commander using the extra order stratagem.  Use the grenade stratagem on the demo charges, reroll 1s with meltas, and say goodbye to that problem unit haha.  

[duz_]

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It would appear some of you missed my prior post.

 

We are discussing Chimeras and their lower price point in CA. 

General discussion around the effectiveness of a certain load out vs another based on average dice rolls is fine. 

 

Debating the mathematics and technicalities of others calculations is unnecessary. 

This post is not to debate dice roll statistics, feel free to take it to Amicus if you must. 

 

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[HallofStovokor]

 

 

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It would appear some of you missed my prior post.

We are discussing Chimeras and their lower price point in CA.

General discussion around the effectiveness of a certain load out vs another based on average dice rolls is fine.

Debating the mathematics and technicalities of others calculations is unnecessary.

This post is not to debate dice roll statistics, feel free to take it to Amicus if you must.

=][=

To be fair, both the multi-laser and heavy flamer had point reductions in chapter approved. Being as how both of these weapons are load out options for the chimera, the debate between heavy flamer, heavy bolter and multi-laser are relevant to a discussion about the price drop of chimeras.

[duz_]

 

 

To be fair, both the multi-laser and heavy flamer had point reductions in chapter approved. Being as how both of these weapons are load out options for the chimera, the debate between heavy flamer, heavy bolter and multi-laser are relevant to a discussion about the price drop of chimeras.

 

 

Indeed it is and you may find that in is stated the quote u included.

[Diagramdude]

A note on the double heavy flamer Chimera it has come down in points (heavy flamer drop by 3), but most importantly it can fire overwatch in support of an infantry squad within 6 for 1 CP. 

[Wassa]

That's good, assuming the enemy is also with the 8" flamer range

[sairence]

A note on the double heavy flamer Chimera it has come down in points (heavy flamer drop by 3), but most importantly it can fire overwatch in support of an infantry squad within 6 for 1 CP.

If you take them as part of the assault company special detachment.

[librisrouge]

 

A note on the double heavy flamer Chimera it has come down in points (heavy flamer drop by 3), but most importantly it can fire overwatch in support of an infantry squad within 6 for 1 CP.

If you take them as part of the assault company special detachment.

And if the enemy is within 8” of the chimera as well.

[Trickstick]

I think that 8" range really hurts their use in the Blade formation. If you disembark forward of your Chimera, which is more than likely to get into range, the amount that the flamers can shoot in front of the squad is tiny. Add that to the expense and I would rather have bolters. I think the only vehicles I can see myself choosing heavy flamers for are the banewolf, the sentinel and non-Tallarn Demolishers/Punishers. 

[librisrouge]

I think that 8" range really hurts their use in the Blade formation. If you disembark forward of your Chimera, which is more than likely to get into range, the amount that the flamers can shoot in front of the squad is tiny. Add that to the expense and I would rather have bolters. I think the only vehicles I can see myself choosing heavy flamers for are the banewolf, the sentinel and non-Tallarn Demolishers/Punishers. 

I couldn't agree more that the heavy flamer chimera will struggle to benefit from the detachment.

 

However, it still has a place since it is very comfortable moving up and helping out just under its own rules. I'm actually mixed on the mechanized specialty. I like it a lot, because it helps out my favorite type of IG army, but the biggest part, by far, seems to be the strategem to move and then get out. Even a basic Infantry Squad likes this since it makes a full FRFSRF very easy to pull off. Veteran squads positively salivate from this. The relic is also pretty great if you're wanting a forward warlord and the warlord trait is decent. Nothing in it is game breaking (great) but nothing in it really makes the chimeras better; it just makes them viable since the infantry they deliver are better off.

[HallofStovokor]

I'm actually thinking that formation along with the point drops to war gear and chimeras are going to make a mechanized steel legion army viable competitively.

[Finkmilkana]

I'm actually thinking that formation along with the point drops to war gear and chimeras are going to make a mechanized steel legion army viable competitively.

I think they will be quite viable and strong for normal games, but I fear that transports still eat too much into the point budget for high level competitive play.