Hunters: like 'em even more now

[9x19 Parabellum]

So I've been fielding a Hunter in my RG lists for a while now.  I took them at 90 points; most though I was nuts but I always got a good use out of them.

 

I compared them to a Tactical Squad; for 90 pts. you get a tac squad with a lascannon and 4 bolters.

For 92 points, you get a Hunter; which is basically a lascannon and 2 bolters (stormbolter)

 

Only difference is, for the same points, your Hunter is twice as tough as the Tac squad, and over twice as many wounds.  It's also got more reliable damage against everything (re-rolls its own failed hits), but especially flying units, and it's faster. And it's a moving wall of LOS blocking terrain for other units you don't want getting shot.  Put it out front to soak up mortal wounds. 

 

I just thought it had so many uses, even at 90 points.

 

It's even better now at 80.  I think I'm gonna get another one, maybe 2, just to troll people :-)  I'm wondering if it's one of those types of units that if having multiples is a whole greater than the sum of its parts kind of thing.  Possibly some combination of Hunters and Stalkers.

 

Who wants to join me in the Hunter revolution?

[Dracos]

I think if I wasn't so heavily invested in (2) Xiphons to perform similar task I'd give this some serious thought. Still might adter I get my Pile o' Shame dwindled. They are relatively cheap and perform a specific task (taks/monsters) that Primaris units are mediocre at best.

 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Wow, Race and Dracos are the only ones who believe in old 9x19, eh? Ok.  Fine be that way. I'm going to redefine the meta when I unleash my hordes of Hunter tanks. And you heard it here first.

[shandwen]

Back when the hunter/stalker was released I ran a hunter as a poor-mans predator. The amount of shots it put out always managed one or two hits, and the general idea people had of the tank meant no one ever bother doing anything to it. It wasn't competitive enough for people to pay attention to. Now that skyfire is not really a thing, and the flyer keyword is everywhere, I can only imagine the carnage an 80pt version can do.

[Race Bannon]

I'm going to redefine the meta when I unleash my hordes of Hunter tanks. And you heard it here first.

Pics or it didn't happen :lol:

[Ishagu]

Whilst I agree that math hammer isn't the only measure of a unit's worth, I still don't particularly rate the Hunter.

 

I think GW missed a trick with it. It could have been similar to a Plagueburst Crawler or something?

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

I'm going to redefine the meta when I unleash my hordes of Hunter tanks. And you heard it here first.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

 

Well first I have to actually get a horde of Hunters. Then I'll get to fast work redefining the meta....please standbye...

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I recently swapped my Hunter to a Stalker. I've got plenty of lascannons from other sources, and I wanted something that could sweep Shining Spears out of the sky.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yeah I'm thinking 2:1 ratio as I like those big hits. That 60' range missile is nice, and it rerolls it's own hits. 

 

Also nice about these guys is they don't really have much in the way of Stratagem support, so don't need much command point support.

[Panzer]

Wow, Race and Dracos are the only ones who believe in old 9x19, eh? Ok.  Fine be that way. I'm going to redefine the meta when I unleash my hordes of Hunter tanks. And you heard it here first.

 

Well Slaanesh Daemons are getting a BS2+ character with what's basically a Lascannon (24" Assault 1 S8 AP-3 D3) for 80p plus a nice anti-psyker aura so forgive me when I'm not THAT impressed with the Hunter. :P

It's a decent tank tho and I don't think it's a bad pick if you need more ranged anti-tank in your list. It's just not a very exciting pick either so not much to talk about. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Something I will add about the Hunter: it likes having a Lieutenant around. That big S9 hit has rolled a 1 on me more often than I can count, and I'd rather save the Command Reroll for the damage roll.

[Jacques Corbin]

Oh, me! I want to join! I have one Stalker, but I have not built the Hunter Turret yet. I have another on order, picking it up Wednesday. The plan is to pair the Stalker up with my Thunderfire Cannon. That way, there is a Techmarine sitting right there by the Stalker and the cannon. The TFC does not need line of sight to fire, and the gunner merely needs to be within 3 inches. So, now my T8 Stalker is blocking LoS to my Cannon, and is getting d3 wounds repaired every turn. I also have another TFC on the way. Imagine the pair of them, sitting back, putting out a withering hail of dakka, and being stupidly resilient.

 

Yeah, honestly, I prefer the Stalker to the Hunter. I already have plenty of Lascannons. The Stalker just deletes Drones, Eldar Jetbikes, and marines with Jump Packs.

 

Hey, don't forget about battle honors in the new Chapter Approved. What has "Slick Blue" earned this far brother?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Jacques...that's exactly my Spearhead Detachment. A Hunter or Stalker, 2x TFCs, and a Techmarine with conversion beamer, all sitting in the reroll bubbles of my Storm of Fire Captain and Lieutenant.

[Jacques Corbin]

Yeah, I am thinking of just running a walking Lieutenant for an HQ for just that Spearhead. Except I am using 2 Stalkers and 2 TFCs. My only question is whether to put them in the corners, and really force my opponent to split his focus, or castle them in the middle to take advantage of a buff bubble.

[Race Bannon]

It's just not a very exciting pick either so not much to talk about.

Which may be the hidden point of the topic ;)

 

I'm too old school to think the Predator can be replaced by another tank, but not too old chronologically that I can't learn a new trick. :lol:

[Captain Idaho]

I love the imagery of this [the Hunter] vehicle. Ever since Epic which had it as a Macro weapon. I would love it to be upgraded to do 6 damage, less accuracy bonuses but would accept a reasonable points adjustment for the pleasure. After all it is the 2nd largest Missile platform in the game... ;)

 

One thing to be said about the vehicle. Its high toughness adds saturation to a list which is nice. A super accurate Lascannon is nice too.

[Panzer]

I love the imagery of this [the Hunter] vehicle. Ever since Epic which had it as a Macro weapon. I would love it to be upgraded to do 6 damage, less accuracy bonuses but would accept a reasonable points adjustment for the pleasure. After all it is the 2nd largest Missile platform in the game...

 

Don't go there. I speak from experience when I say that single shot tanks without high accuracy are no good. Hammerheads with Railguns for example. A S10 AP-4 D1d6 weapon that has a chance to deal 1d3 additional MW on a 6 on the to-wound roll sounds awesome, right? Well it hits only on a 3+ and you'd need to pay for the whole tank for each of those weapons making it very expensive compared to units with Lascannons and rolling two 3+ is not very reliable unfortunately. Broadsides with two S8 AP-4 D1d6 shots are better at doing the same job just because they have more shots on a cheaper chassis. 

[Cruor Vault]

 

It's just not a very exciting pick either so not much to talk about.

Which may be the hidden point of the topic

 

I'm too old school to think the Predator can be replaced by another tank, but not too old chronologically that I can't learn a new trick.

 

You really shouldn't compare a Predator and a Contemptor Mortis in that case...  You will cry...

[9x19 Parabellum]

In no particular order:

 

1. I agree the Hunter/Stalker is not sexy. It's just very reliable, and, I think, a good value now for it's 80 pts.  While I like both, I think the Hunter is more universally versatile, as it doesn't suffer the -1 penalty vs. non flyers AND rerolls it's own hits.

 

2. Panzer; I don't know anything else about your Slanneshi character, but unless she has a lot of special rules or stats I'm unaware of, I'm not sure how a direct comparison beats out T8 and 11 wounds, and, while her weapon is good, it's not 60", or Str. 9, or d6 damage :-)

 

3. I like the TFC Techmarine baby:cussting a hunter/stalker for healing and thus pulling double duty. I might have to try that.

[Panzer]

 

2. Panzer; I don't know anything else about your Slanneshi character, but unless she has a lot of special rules or stats I'm unaware of, I'm not sure how a direct comparison beats out T8 and 11 wounds, and, while her weapon is good, it's not 60", or Str. 9, or d6 damage :-)

 

 

Easy.

It's a character with less than 10 wounds so unless you kill like half the army between her and your army you won't even be able to touch her. That's worth more than T8 and 11 wounds. Just ask the Chaplain Dread with Lascannon.

Range is barely an issue because Daemons aren't a gunline army so they move towards the opponent constantly anyway.

S9 is certainly better than S8 but only against T8 and T9 targets ... most vehicles are T7.

Flat 3 damage is better than 1d6 damage just like flat 2 damage is better than 1d3 damage. It's just more reliable.

 

As for other special rules, as I said she has a neat anti-psyker aura that causes perils on any doubles. That's it. ^^

 

I'm not trying to say that she is much better than the Hunter, just that the Hunter isn't that special compared to other units. It's a single rather reliable Lascannon shot (tho the 1d6 damage is still unreliable) on a durable chassis.

[Jacques Corbin]

In no particular order:

 

1. I agree the Hunter/Stalker is not sexy. It's just very reliable, and, I think, a good value now for it's 80 pts. While I like both, I think the Hunter is more universally versatile, as it doesn't suffer the -1 penalty vs. non flyers AND rerolls it's own hits.

 

2. Panzer; I don't know anything else about your Slanneshi character, but unless she has a lot of special rules or stats I'm unaware of, I'm not sure how a direct comparison beats out T8 and 11 wounds, and, while her weapon is good, it's not 60", or Str. 9, or d6 damage :-)

 

3. I like the TFC Techmarine baby:cussting a hunter/stalker for healing and thus pulling double duty. I might have to try that.

Yeah, I first tried that with a Venerable, rocking Twin Lascannons and a Missile Launcher. Worked out well enough. It was funny to see the look on an opponent's face when you tell them, "yeah, he is T7, with a 3+/6+++, and you are -1 to hit outside 12", and the gunner can heal him for d3 wounds a turn." Priceless!

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

 

2. Panzer; I don't know anything else about your Slanneshi character, but unless she has a lot of special rules or stats I'm unaware of, I'm not sure how a direct comparison beats out T8 and 11 wounds, and, while her weapon is good, it's not 60", or Str. 9, or d6 damage :-)

 

 

Easy.

It's a character with less than 10 wounds so unless you kill like half the army between her and your army you won't even be able to touch her. That's worth more than T8 and 11 wounds. Just ask the Chaplain Dread with Lascannon.

Range is barely an issue because Daemons aren't a gunline army so they move towards the opponent constantly anyway.

S9 is certainly better than S8 but only against T8 and T9 targets ... most vehicles are T7.

Flat 3 damage is better than 1d6 damage just like flat 2 damage is better than 1d3 damage. It's just more reliable.

 

As for other special rules, as I said she has a neat anti-psyker aura that causes perils on any doubles. That's it. ^^

 

I'm not trying to say that she is much better than the Hunter, just that the Hunter isn't that special compared to other units. It's a single rather reliable Lascannon shot (tho the 1d6 damage is still unreliable) on a durable chassis.

 

 

Oh it's flat 3 damage. I thought it was d3 damage.  Yeah flat 3 damage I'd take over variable d6.  In fact I've really learned to love the Stormraven's Stormstrike Missiles because of that. 

[LucidNinja]

I'm really liking the idea of doing this one day. On the note of hiding things behind this moving wall would a dreadnought be too tall? I can think of some fun shenanigans to be had...

[Jacques Corbin]

I'm really liking the idea of doing this one day. On the note of hiding things behind this moving wall would a dreadnought be too tall? I can think of some fun shenanigans to be had...

Well, it is the Thunderfire Cannon I hide behind the Stalker, because the TFC does not need Line of Sight, and because the gunner can repair the Stalker, and the cannon will still shoot in the shooting phase.

 

Previously, it was a Venerable Dreadnought with Twin Lascannons and a Missile Launcher. It was not T8, and did not block LoS, but the Venerable get Chapter Tactics (Raven Guard), on top of it's 6+++, and the gunner can repair it, and the Venerable does not degrade due to only 8 wounds.

 

Both have their pros and cons. I would rather have the Stalker than the Venerable, because the dakka it throws out just deletes jump packs, eldar jetbikes, drones, etc. Also, 4+ vs any non flier is much better than the 6+ of last edition. Now, I would rather have a Venerable than the Hunter, because you get 2 Lascannon shots and a Missile Launcher, that does not degrade, and at worst hits on a 3+.

[Captain Idaho]

Threadomancy most foul or an efficient Ultramarine utilising an old thread for the important information therein? We'll find out shortly...

 

So I've been thinking, taking into consideration the state of play and what ends up competitive for each list (for and against) and I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that a Hunter is actually one of the hidden gems of Codex Space Marines, mono build of course, out there.

 

Why would I make such an extreme claim?

 

Well, simply put, would you buy a vehicle with long range, 2 S9 Damage D6 shots that rarely miss against all targets, with 22 wounds and T8 all for only 160pts?

 

The answer for just about any army using other vehicles is going to be yes. Well the unit is actually 2 so you get to still fire even when one is locked in Close Combat, claim 2 objectives and fire sequentially so less overkill. All the while filling out a Spearhead for an extra CP.

 

So what is the current feeling of experience people can feed back to me?

 

I'm planning on a Leviathan list so extra T8 is going to be crucial. Marines struggle against Knights and Flyers in the more competitive games so Hunters will even those odds somewhat. Knights don't like being hit by Lascannons and hitting even Alaitoc flyers on a 4+ but rerolling 1s and 2s is pretty reliable. Other flyers will be hit even easier.

 

I could be wrong but 160pts for a pair of these beasties alongside a Relic Leviathan and a Chainsword Techmarine looks like the go to Spearhead to me.