Vigilus fluff - future of primaris and classic marines

[Robbienw]

Anyone read the Vigilus fluff yet?

 

Page 77 adresses the fluff of the Rubicon Primaris procedure, its seems like GW finally addressing the long term question of primaris replacing normal marines or not or some other way.

 

It goes into some detail, basically the space marine chapters/factions in universe, have had pretty much the full range of arguments about about classic marines and primaris as we have had on the internet :lol: 

 

Cawl had amassed data on whether transformation from regular to primaris was possible, and worked out from this there would be a probable failure rate of 61.6% during the procedure, until it could be perfected.  It would take time to perfect.

 

After heated debate and moral concerns being aired, Calgar volunteered to be the first test subject.  He had the procedure, died for 20 minutes, was sown up and had his heart electric shocked, then came back to life in the style of frankensteins monster.

 

The last line says 'The Rubicon Primaris had been crossed, and a new path opened for the Adeptus Astartes'.

 

 

Now I'm taking from that, that although risky now, Cawl will perfect the procedure eventually, and all classic marines will be upgraded in the style of calgar over time.  I don't think its going to be quick based on the fluff given, it directly says it will take time to perfect, and as we know classic marines are still currently being made in the current timeline.  But i am now sure that is what there intended outcome.  I think first you'll see a few famous characters like calgar getting transformed, and then veterans, and eventually the rank and file.

 

Perhaps Jes Goodwin in the voxcast wasn't actually talking about the primaris as they were originally intended in early development, and is actually talking about the future of all marines, with the primaris serum he mentioned being a part of Cawl perfection fo the process?

 

From a fluff point of view i like it; its means the classic marines won't die out or be left to become obsolete, they will just be uplifted.  It also means that the outsider terrain/martian primaris marines will all eventually die out and the classic marines who are uplifted will continue the chapter traditions and specific attributes as before, what with new primaris recruits now coming from chapter home worlds as normal as well.

 

From a model point of view I don't like it.  I don't want to lose the classic marine look and armour styles in future releases.  But i think there is some hope  further kits will come closer to the classic aethsetic based on what Jes said in the voxcast video and this fluff.  Based on that I think we will defiantly see kits in future that are primaris classic marine units; marines who have been upgraded but will still operate in the traditional marine fighting styles.  I really think in the longer future we will see primaris tactical, assault and devastator and veteran squads.

 

I still don't think they'll stop selling classic marine kits for a long time either, particularly the newer stuff.

[NiceGuyAdi]

It sounds like perhaps we’re in a messy stopgap between all Marines getting ‘truescale’ proportions and superhuman statlines, where the miniature design and fluff isn’t yet able to keep up. I feel strangely ok with that, considering I haven’t painted a single Primaris marine, yet.

 

As long as Oldmarines aren’t squatted, of course.

[Captain Idaho]

Having read the background it looks like the echo of our own concerns has indeed been discussed by the Space Marines, possibly deliberately by GW.

 

But this great new "Classic Marines being made obsolete isn't happening because Classic Marines have turned into Primaris - behold Calgar" isn't going to make me or many others feel better. It's like GW missed what we're upset about.

 

I mean, if GW gives me a bunch of free models so my Classic Marines being obsolete is okay then sure I'll accept them. Well actually no I don't like the models I'll just have the cash but still the point remain the same.

[Robbienw]

Yeah, i am with you there on the models of course.  I'm just hoping they bring the style a bit back more like the classic marines, and i might like them, but i think this is the hope that is the first step on the road to disappointment 

[Panzer]

But this great new "Classic Marines being made obsolete isn't happening because Classic Marines have turned into Primaris - behold Calgar" isn't going to make me or many others feel better. It's like GW missed what we're upset about.

 

 

Considering how many people started saying stuff like "if Marines just get upscaled instead of replaced I'd be much happier with Primaris" I don't think they completely missed what people are upset about. At least i takes away the "replaced" part. ^^

New models were about to happen eventually anyway. They make old Marine models as obsolete as the old Marine models made the ancient Marine models obsolete. That's how it has always been so I'm not particularly concerned about that. People who like their old models are still going to use them anyway.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Having read the background it looks like the echo of our own concerns has indeed been discussed by the Space Marines, possibly deliberately by GW.

 

But this great new "Classic Marines being made obsolete isn't happening because Classic Marines have turned into Primaris - behold Calgar" isn't going to make me or many others feel better. It's like GW missed what we're upset about.

 

I mean, if GW gives me a bunch of free models so my Classic Marines being obsolete is okay then sure I'll accept them. Well actually no I don't like the models I'll just have the cash but still the point remain the same.

 

I feel like we didn't read the same fluff. It did mirror our arguments but its not like he went through the procedure and the other marines just changed their minds. It justified a chapter master who gained an inferiority complex because he isn't a primarch risking his life to become stronger. It did open the door for other characters to "upgrade" but its not some definitive nail in the coffin to classic marines.

 

GW has said that marines aren't going anywhere, and that Primaris are reinforcements not replacements. Our community is the source of the ideal that marines are the on the chopping block. The sad part is lot of the players that are convincing others of this "Truth" are players who don't want Primaris. Focus on the positives from vigilous and chapter approved for the range, trust me classic marines benefited more. Posts like this one lead to the "Safe Army Threads", and new players not considering units that they may think are cool but think they won't be able to use soon. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Having read the background it looks like the echo of our own concerns has indeed been discussed by the Space Marines, possibly deliberately by GW.

 

But this great new "Classic Marines being made obsolete isn't happening because Classic Marines have turned into Primaris - behold Calgar" isn't going to make me or many others feel better. It's like GW missed what we're upset about.

 

I mean, if GW gives me a bunch of free models so my Classic Marines being obsolete is okay then sure I'll accept them. Well actually no I don't like the models I'll just have the cash but still the point remain the same.

Join us in the historical 40k camp ;) we’ve got old armor marks and wargear

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"Our community is the source of the ideal that marines are the on the chopping block. The sad part is lot of the players that are convincing others of this "Truth" are players who don't want Primaris."

 

QFT

[Sete]

Didn't you hear Jess Goodwin interview?

They have 5+ years of Primaris down the line.

What we say or not in this forum is of no consequence.

 

The community has no say or influence, except the wallet on what's released.

 

And even voting with your wallet is meaningless given the current state of things. People are buying left and right the new hot thing.

 

And if you say something on the official channels you have a legion of drones defending games workshop.

 

So strap on boys and girls we aren't driving this bus, only thing we can do is sit tight or jump out.

 

 

Edit: I personally haven't spent more than 50 quid on GW this year. And I don't see this changing in the near future.

[Panzer]

Actually he said "up to 5 years" and he didn't explicitly mention Primaris Marines. It just means that long term developments sometimes are in the works for 5 years but there are also some models that are done within 1 year etc.

[Sete]

Actually he said "up to 5 years" and he didn't explicitly mention Primaris Marines. It just means that long term developments sometimes are in the works for 5 years but there are also some models that are done within 1 year etc.

My bad, still my point remains. They have a schedule.

[Panzer]

 

Actually he said "up to 5 years" and he didn't explicitly mention Primaris Marines. It just means that long term developments sometimes are in the works for 5 years but there are also some models that are done within 1 year etc.

My bad, still my point remains. They have a schedule.

 

 

Yeah people like to believe otherwise but companies who develop stuff that takes time are very rigid and can't do otherwise than to ignore community feedback most of the time.

You want melee Primaris? Well it's scheduled to happen ... in like 2 years. Sorry can't speed things up since our production line and design guys are super busy with other scheduled things till then.

[Lemondish]

What we say or not in this forum is of no consequence.

 

The community has no say or influence, except the wallet on what's released.

 

And even voting with your wallet is meaningless given the current state of things. People are buying left and right the new hot thing.

Sounds like the community has a say here - you just don't like what they're saying.

[Captain Idaho]

I feel like we didn't read the same fluff. It did mirror our arguments but its not like he went through the procedure and the other marines just changed their minds.

 

*snip*

 

"The lords of the Ultramarines came to the

conclusion that to ease the transition from

centuries of Imperial tradition to a new

order, the theoreticals of that raging debate

would have to be put into practice. It was

Marneus Calgar that stepped forward as

the first test subject from the ranks of his

storied Chapter."

 

And

 

"Calgar had clawed

his way back from beyond the brink of

death, and in doing so, he had shown to

his Chapter that the transformation was

possible. The Rubicon Primaris had been

crossed, and a new path opened for the

Adeptus Astartes."

 

It certainly looks like a positive way forward that GW is illustrating.

[Sete]

 

What we say or not in this forum is of no consequence.

 

The community has no say or influence, except the wallet on what's released.

 

And even voting with your wallet is meaningless given the current state of things. People are buying left and right the new hot thing.

Sounds like the community has a say here - you just don't like what they're saying.

Well I'm giving a general example and you are trying to spin it as if I have an issue with it.

I don't have the time or disposition to indulge your low key provocation.

 

People buy what they want, I'm just saying voting with the wallet, In this case is meaningless, because the consumption of new items clearly is superior to it.

 

And even so the community has no say in it, because like I said previously the releases are scheduled.

 

And consumers gonna consume. Voting with your wallet is a fallacy.

 

If you really think that what we are discussing here affects in any way whatsoever the direction of releases, well, you are wrong.

[Lemondish]

 

 

What we say or not in this forum is of no consequence.

 

The community has no say or influence, except the wallet on what's released.

 

And even voting with your wallet is meaningless given the current state of things. People are buying left and right the new hot thing.

Sounds like the community has a say here - you just don't like what they're saying.

Well I'm giving a general example and you are trying to spin it as if I have an issue with it.

I don't have the time or disposition to indulge your low key provocation.

 

People buy what they want, I'm just saying voting with the wallet, In this case is meaningless, because the consumption of new items clearly is superior to it.

 

And even so the community has no say in it, because like I said previously the releases are scheduled.

 

And consumers gonna consume. Voting with your wallet is a fallacy.

 

If you really think that what we are discussing here affects in any way whatsoever the direction of releases, well, you are wrong.

Never said that.

 

I'm just completely disagreeing with your limited perspective on the grounds that it's wrong. Hopelessly, completely, utterly wrong.

 

But you do you, champ.

[Race Bannon]

Please take personal conversations to PM. Opinions should constructively add to the topic.

[Sete]

So my post was deleted because it wasn't constructive, but lemondish post that just says I'm wrong and does not add anything stays?

Gotta explain that one to me.

[Captain Idaho]

So my post was deleted because it wasn't constructive, but lemondish post that just says I'm wrong and does not add anything stays?

Gotta explain that one to me.

=][= We don't have to explain it to you but I will anyway. Your post was deleted because a Mod had directed you to cease the off topic conversation and take it to PM if you wanted to continue. Your post came after that and thus was removed. =][=

[Sete]

 

So my post was deleted because it wasn't constructive, but lemondish post that just says I'm wrong and does not add anything stays?

Gotta explain that one to me.

=][= We don't have to explain it to you but I will anyway. Your post was deleted because a Mod had directed you to cease the off topic conversation and take it to PM if you wanted to continue. Your post came after that and thus was removed. =][=

Thanks for the insight.

I appreciate it. But still I would like an answer to my question.

My view on the schedule and releases and how they are planned by GW according to community feedback was assessed limited and wrong by a frater.

Since he added no more to the discussion I would wish to know what aspects of it are wrong.

 

Is it off topic? Or am I really just asking him to be constructive?

Yeah I used a buddy just to give him the same kind of condescending attitude that was given to me. Mea Culpa.

 

Thanks for your time and explanation Idaho, and I hope I have made my point clear aswell.