Wassa Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 So.. can we shoot twice even after advancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperator Deus Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I would think so. If nothing else the flavour text seems to support that interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Cross Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I'd rather have had the ability to fire a Russ after it fell back from combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 I'd rather have had the ability to fire a Russ after it fell back from combat. Well while we’re wishing, having the ability to fire while in combat would be great too :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I'm going to say no on this one. Hear me out. You can fire twice thanks to the Grinding Advance rules. This, for the uncool kids in the room, allows the turret to fire twice if the vehicle moved at 1/2" movement or less. Unyielding Advance seems to let you fire twice regardless of how far you move; amending the Grinding Advance rule that the stratagem specifically brings up. Cool, cool. Advancing causes you to not fire at all in exchange to a +1d6 to your movement stat. Nothing in Grinding Advance allows you to advance and fire the turret. As such, nothing in Unyielding Advance would allow you to do something that Grinding Advance doesn't, save what Unyielding Advance amends. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I agree. You go into a "has advanced" state when you do, and nothing in the stratagem gets around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I don't know. I think that this will need to be addressed in the next faq. It only states that you can shoot twice no matter how far you moved in the movement phase. That's going to be abused by some waac players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 It says ‘no matter how far it moved’ and when a rule specifically affects/includes advancing it normally says ‘advanced’ rather than moved. I also agree that nothing in grinding advance removes the restrictions on firing heavy weapons after advancing. So overall, although I admit the wording could be better, I don’t think the stratagem allows you to advance and fire and I’d be very surprised if that was the intent behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I don't know. I think that this will need to be addressed in the next faq. It only states that you can shoot twice no matter how far you moved in the movement phase. That's going to be abused by some waac players. See, I know how to win rules arguments from this type of player. It is a technique passed down in my gaming circle for generations, honed against the most trying of circumstances, and proven against even the most stubborn of foes: Step 1 - Acquire old metal dreadnought. Legend has it that one with a lascannon is preferable to the assault cannon but that it is pewter or lead is paramount for this ritual. Step 2 - Place said dreadnought into a study and decent sized sock. The cleanliness of the sock is secondary to the sturdiness of it but I recommend a clean one anyway, if just to fight nerd stereotypes. Step 3 - Have honest and forthright conversation with foe regarding their ill informed understanding of the rules, while holding the sock by its open end (end may be tied off for convenience.) Use the best of your rhetorical devices to attempt to convince them to abandon the path of evil. Every so often shake the hand holding the sock to bring it to your foes attention. Step 4a - Should you win the argument verbally, give praise to the Emperor, who empowers our words and minds, and continue your game, confident you've made the world a better place. Step 4b - Should you lose the argument verbally, hit the fool with the dreadsock. It'll feel really good. And, in all likelihood, they will not continue to make that mistake when playing you, or around you.1 1 Note: I make these statements not as a legal expert. None of these constitute legal advice and any legal consequinces of this advice is the sole responsibility of the person who took this action. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 It says ‘no matter how far it moved’ and when a rule specifically affects/includes advancing it normally says ‘advanced’ rather than moved. I also agree that nothing in grinding advance removes the restrictions on firing heavy weapons after advancing. So overall, although I admit the wording could be better, I don’t think the stratagem allows you to advance and fire and I’d be very surprised if that was the intent behind it. I agree with you, but I think that there will definitely be a WAAC player that will try to game the system. Then a TO will come and check the rules. This poor wording might let some a-hole pull a fast one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 It says moved so you still have -1 to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Grinding Advance removes the -1 to hit penalty for moving and firing turret weapon. I’d bet dollars to donuts that you cannot advance and shoot it. The turret is a heavy weapon, nothing in that Strat changes it to an assault weapon. If you advance, you cannot fire heavy weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher956 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 No matter how far you moved... but if you advanced then you advanced and did not move. See assault weapons for terminology..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Advancing /= Moving A lot of players seem to struggle with the above statement but it is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven 19 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Sadly, I agree with Trickstick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 So we can now officially fire advance and fire twice. I assume we still get a -1 to hit penalty though for advancing, and same with the Forwards For The Emperor Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 No we don't. The -1 penalty only applies to Assault weapons. All guns on a Russ are heavy. Same with Rapidfire or any other non-assault type weapons on other units. It's a bit silly, but them's the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Isn't it already FAQed that you can advance and use the Stratagem to shoot twice? I judt checkt the latest FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Isn't it already FAQed that you can advance and use the Stratagem to shoot twice? I judt checkt the latest FAQ Yes, the original post was a few weeks before the FAQ. I just resurrected it to ask if it suffers the -1 penalty. It seems that RAI probably, RAW no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 No we don't. The -1 penalty only applies to Assault weapons. All guns on a Russ are heavy. Same with Rapidfire or any other non-assault type weapons on other units. It's a bit silly, but them's the rules. I'm going to agree with this. Nowhere that I've read have heavy weapons ever gotten a -1 to hit for advancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Yeah even with the "Forwards For The Emperor" order that lets you advance and shoot. RAW, Assault weapons still have the -1 to hit penalty for advancing, the non assault weapons don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSoldiers Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Yeah, if they wanted the -1 penalty it would say “may advance and treat all weapons as Assault” or something like that. GW sometimes knows what they’re doing. Sometimes it’s just a happy accident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phubar Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 The intent of the stratagem is to advance and still fire twice the main cannon. Nothing more. So if you advanced you cannot fire any NON assault weapon (except for the turret one but only because this stratagem allows you to do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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