Veterans: Still not worth Taking?

[Rommel44]

Have been getting into a lot of discussions with my fellow mates at my gaming store with the new point drops and such, with a hot topic being in regards to IG Veterans. While they are now valued at a nickle per model, many IG players still feel that they are not worth the points, whereas I see some potential considering that being able to hit things on 3's to go with 3x Special Weapons per squad just for a point more than a traditional Guardsmen. With that being said, what are your thoughts on the IG Veteran post Chapter Approved 2018 and do you think they are worth considering now

[HallofStovokor]

I took them when they costed 6 ppm. They're great shock troops. I like to get them in deep with a chimera. Most people put no stock into attacking a chimera with veterans in it as the tanks and basilisks are more of an immediate threat. Then my chimera gets a an unsaved wound. Bamn! Overlapping fields of fire so my meltagun vets hit on 2+

[TheShredder]

Given that Chimeras are now much more reasonably priced, I think Veterans are at least worth trying. 

 

I'm also wondering whether they might be worth using for my IG-Infantry army, to give me a more elite core. 

 

Out of interest, do you think Heavy Weapons are worthwhile on Veterans, or is it better to keep them mobile and try to close with their Plasmaguns?

[Tokugawa]

When you have filled Batallion slots, you may want to fill double Batallions.

 

When you have filled 2 Batallion slots, you may want to fill a Brigade.

 

When you have filled Brigade, you may want more big guns, or a Knight.

 

Veterans are good, but have very low priority when building lists.

[mertbl]

I've always taken 1 with the dagger on a platoon commander. Triple plasma, plasma pistol. 10 guys popping up is a bit of a thorn. Even if they are just T3, 5+.

[sairence]

I've ran two squads in my two games since the leaks so far. Tooled up as Tallarn with 2 Meltaguns, a Plasmagun and a Plasmalistol in Chimeras. They didn'really achieve much, which is partly due to my opponent being Death Guard, but not exclusively.

 

I was still underwhelmed by the performance, in both games they did barely any damage. Certainly not worthy of the guns they had. Any return fire after they disembarked shredded them pretty quickly.

 

The points drop is nice, but I still don't seem them worth using as assault squads. Potentially as some tripple grenade launcher squads, or backline lascannons...but even for those roles I can usually find better stuff to use.

 

They either need to become troops or get some special rules to set them apart again. As elites they just suffer by the side of the road, even with the points drop.

 

As for outflanking with the dagger...maybe. But it's again a case where I can get the same result with Scions, without using a relic for it.

[NatBrannigan]

Maybe not in the most high end of lists, but I think they're good. With the Mordian order 3 overcharged Plasma Guns popping out of a Chimera or Taurox and blasting a character who thought itself nice and safe is always fun.

[MARK0SIAN]

I think veterans really need to either be troops or have their specialist tactics back to be a worthwhile inclusion. Even now, they’re only the kind of unit I would consider if I had some spare points or a very particular niche job for them but they’re still pretty low down the priority list for me. It’s not that I think they’re bad or not worth their points, I would just generally choose something else instead for those points.

[TheShredder]

I think veterans really need to either be troops or have their specialist tactics back to be a worthwhile inclusion. Even now, they’re only the kind of unit I would consider if I had some spare points or a very particular niche job for them but they’re still pretty low down the priority list for me. It’s not that I think they’re bad or not worth their points, I would just generally choose something else instead for those points.

 

I think Veterans should really be troops and Scions elites. The latter only ended up as troops in the first place because of GW's bizarre notion of making subfactions with about 3 units into separate armies.

[Harrowmaster]

 

I think veterans really need to either be troops or have their specialist tactics back to be a worthwhile inclusion. Even now, they’re only the kind of unit I would consider if I had some spare points or a very particular niche job for them but they’re still pretty low down the priority list for me. It’s not that I think they’re bad or not worth their points, I would just generally choose something else instead for those points.

 

I think Veterans should really be troops and Scions elites. The latter only ended up as troops in the first place because of GW's bizarre notion of making subfactions without about 3 units into separate armies.

 

 

Yeah, vets should be troops and stormies elites in a guard army, having the ability to take so many auxiliaries as opposed to actual regimental troops is odd. If stormtroopers are to be troops it should be for inquisition. 

[Trickstick]

I'm liking the idea of ambushing Tallarn veterans. Two squads, with a Company Commander, could cause a bit of trouble. Optimal loadout would probably be 3x plasma and pistols. The main advantage would be that they are slightly cheaper, although you do have to use 3cp. My veteran squads are built with shotguns and melta though, which is not quite as good. There are only a few ways to get within 6" from reserve, which are quite expensive. One way is to ambush a chimera with veterans and platoon commander, then use the Blade stratagem to disembark into 6". You would need to use the blade warlord trait to get some orders though, maybe add a vox. Quite expensive in CP though, costing around 5. Still, getting within 6" can be quite nice.

[noigrim]

I'm taking two full plasmas squads for the final stage of the league they cost twice than a vanilla squad tho but I lack the bodies

[ProminusIV]

I'm liking the idea of ambushing Tallarn veterans. Two squads, with a Company Commander, could cause a bit of trouble. Optimal loadout would probably be 3x plasma and pistols. The main advantage would be that they are slightly cheaper, although you do have to use 3cp. My veteran squads are built with shotguns and melta though, which is not quite as good. There are only a few ways to get within 6" from reserve, which are quite expensive. One way is to ambush a chimera with veterans and platoon commander, then use the Blade stratagem to disembark into 6". You would need to use the blade warlord trait to get some orders though, maybe add a vox. Quite expensive in CP though, costing around 5. Still, getting within 6" can be quite nice.

 

More then 9" away from an enemy, +3" disembark is still more than 6" unfortunately. 

[Captain_Krash]

No love for the shotguns folks?

 

Krash

[Trickstick]

 

I'm liking the idea of ambushing Tallarn veterans. Two squads, with a Company Commander, could cause a bit of trouble. Optimal loadout would probably be 3x plasma and pistols. The main advantage would be that they are slightly cheaper, although you do have to use 3cp. My veteran squads are built with shotguns and melta though, which is not quite as good. There are only a few ways to get within 6" from reserve, which are quite expensive. One way is to ambush a chimera with veterans and platoon commander, then use the Blade stratagem to disembark into 6". You would need to use the blade warlord trait to get some orders though, maybe add a vox. Quite expensive in CP though, costing around 5. Still, getting within 6" can be quite nice.

 

More then 9" away from an enemy, +3" disembark is still more than 6" unfortunately. 

 

 

You are forgetting the width of the base. As the disembark rule says "within" and not "wholly within", you just need a tiny bit of your base within 3". That lets you get within 6" of the enemy.

[librisrouge]

No love for the shotguns folks?

 

Krash

And get our soldiers that close to the enemy 

 

I kid, kinda, but the lasgun also benefits from the possibility of getting 4 shots. Rarely will I get the shotgun close enough to get S4, sadly. The lasgun is just a better weapon, imo.

[robofish7591]

No love for the shotguns folks?

 

Krash

 

I love my shotgun vets, that's why I have I have two units of them!  I just throw them in chimeras and launch them at whatever target I have chosen for them... the problem is that they really aren't "good" if you play competitive games, but they are lots of fun in casual games!

[TheShredder]

No love for the shotguns folks?

 

Krash

 

The issue is that they seem to offer very little advantage over Lasguns. They only get an advantage if they're within 6" of their target, whilst being inferior to the lasgun at all other ranges as well as being unable to benefit from FRFSRF.

 

What's more, unlike in past editions, units can fire Rapid-Fire weapons and still assault so the Shotgun doesn't even have that advantage over the Lasgun. 

 

I like the idea of shotguns - especially on Catachan Veterans - but mechanically they just seem outright worse than lasguns.

[GuardDaddy]

10pts upgrade to infatntry squad for BS3? That's good upgrade.

 

But they are no more than that.

 

I chuck lascannon in mine and sit them in back field as Cadian + Sniper riflex3

[noigrim]

I guess that taking 3 plasmas can seem expensive to some

[Captain_Krash]

Except 3 plasmas are not expensive at all...and are damn good too.

 

Krash

[librisrouge]

Veterans are held back by a couple of things.

 

• The upgraded cost of special weapons when BS3+ offsets their great points value.
• They're still very fragile.
• They aren't troops and IG loves to field detachments that overload us with CP. Elites distract us from this.
• To get the most out of them (triple plasma, imo) you need a delivery mechanism, probably a transport. Now they cost even more.

I'm tempted to field some as just infantry squads with a better heavy weapon.

[Captain_Krash]

Chimera got a points reduction...My Steel legion veterans think very much so other wise. I load up on Plasma and it works.  Two units at least in every list.

 

Krash

[mertbl]

Deliver with a platoon commander and the relic dagger.

 

Veterans are held back by a couple of things.

 

• The upgraded cost of special weapons when BS3+ offsets their great points value.
• They're still very fragile.
• They aren't troops and IG loves to field detachments that overload us with CP. Elites distract us from this.
• To get the most out of them (triple plasma, imo) you need a delivery mechanism, probably a transport. Now they cost even more.

I'm tempted to field some as just infantry squads with a better heavy weapon.

[Trickstick]

Ambushing with 2x veterans and a company commander is alright. You do have to consider if Scions would be better though.