Tips for fighting Chaos Daemons?

[Wassa]

Got a game against Chaos Daemons.

 

They seem to rely on invulnerable saves and are generally fairly weak with T3/4. So I'm guessing bring a lot of lasguns and mortars?

 

There will be several Daemon Princes too, any way to kill these when they are bubble wrapped?

[HallofStovokor]

Yeah punishers, lasguns, grenade launchers and mortars should chew through any bubble wrap screen. Demolishers should do well too.

[Wassa]

What makes demolishers good against daemons?

[HallofStovokor]

They're good against everything. If there's a group of 5 or more models in a unit if fires D6 shots. Add to that D6 damage. It's about equal to a battle cannon in destroying screens, but when you can finally target a character 2d3 shots (grinding advance) with S10 AP-3 D6 damage will evaporate a deamon prince with or without cover.

[WarriorFish]

They're generally a bit squishy with poor saves, so volume of fire is king. You'll still need some big punches to tackle the vehicles and larger daemons however, plus plan for contact as they won't be sitting in front of your guns! Some Guardsmen will bubble wrap your own lines well enough, Daemon Princes can be fast with wings so trying to stop them from arriving is very difficult making planning to handle them when they do better :tu:

[FallenSoldiers]

Vengeance for Cadia!

 

Relic of Lost Cadia!!

[GuardDaddy]

The -2 casting psychic aura assassin is good. Name escapes me

[Trickstick]

The -2 casting psychic aura assassin is good. Name escapes me

 

Culexus.

 

If they are a melee army, you need to get all your bubble wrap tricks sorted out. Things like multicharge, taking a hostage, consolidation distances an so on are really important. You get it right and they are sat in the open to eat gunfire. Wrong, and they are all hidden in combat during your turn.

[Tokugawa]

If they go full hordes the game would be grindy. Make multi-layered screens absorb as much damage as possible for you.

 

If they have big daemons, it would be easier for IG.

[BIG ROB OF DEATH]

I am not sure, having really no experience in 8th against demons yet. There is probably alot to consider, what with terrain, deployment conditions, mission, objectives, psykers, doctrines, etc. I wonder if most people share a couple rules of thumb when facing demons. It seems to me that separation is vital, and having withering firepower, all the while executing your plan to claim victory in the end. I share my two cents worth as follows: lots of meat shields, tanks with sponsons, a Lord of War, mortars, and scions to drop in and exploit openings as the demon army advances, and inevitably leaves holes to deep strike in and pop off plasma against key chaos units. Sorry, wish I could be more helpful. Good Hunting!

[HallofStovokor]

I am not sure, having really no experience in 8th against demons yet. There is probably alot to consider, what with terrain, deployment conditions, mission, objectives, psykers, doctrines, etc. I wonder if most people share a couple rules of thumb when facing demons. It seems to me that separation is vital, and having withering firepower, all the while executing your plan to claim victory in the end. I share my two cents worth as follows: lots of meat shields, tanks with sponsons, a Lord of War, mortars, and scions to drop in and exploit openings as the demon army advances, and inevitably leaves holes to deep strike in and pop off plasma against key chaos units. Sorry, wish I could be more helpful. Good Hunting!

The biggest problem is if they bring Nurgel demons. All Nurgel chaos units are resilient and it becomes a question of how lucky your dice rolls are and how unlucky they are.

[Kinstryfe]

The only thing I think I can contribute is that if you're up against Tzeentch Daemons, and you're playing Catachans, it may be the only time that aggressive close combat guard may actually work well.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

If they have a bloodletter bomb you will need sufficient screens or you could just die the turn they show up.

 

Punishers... the best anti daemon weapon in the guard arsenal.  

[noigrim]

Marine libby with null zone bum no more invulns

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Marine libby with null zone bum no more invulns

Reasons for this not being good...

 

1. Only works 40% of the time... 50ish if you invest CPs. 

Does anyone really want to base their survival on a coin flip?

 

2. Can be denied by lots of different daemons/chaos lists.  

Does anyone really want to base their survival on a coin flip that can be denied by just about any chaos daemons list?

 

3. Requires a marine detachment which is expensive.

Marines are supposed to take guard detachments NOT the other way around.  For 17 points more than the price of the cheapest marine detachment with a libby (151 points) you can have a leman russ punisher.  Even 30 infantry is better with all the lasgun fire.

 

4. Requires your libby to be close.

Who wants to get close to chaos daemons with a super squishy model whose main psychic power only has a 6" bubble which only debuffs models not units?  

 

Here are some much better alternatives for a similiar price.

 

Leman Russ Punisher

15 scions

40 infantry

1 Vulture Gunship

[Tokugawa]

Marine libby with null zone bum no more invulns

Throw such a squishy hero to the face of daemons.

 

Bum! No more libby.

[noigrim]

Eh then just take mordia and overwatch the mother:cussers

[HallofStovokor]

I must agree with sanguinary guardsman. A librarian isn't a good as using massed fire. A couple of squads of guardsmen with FRFSRF or a punisher is more likely to get past the invulnerable saves than a librarian with null zone. For one thing Guardsmen are cheap and with the right orders do surprising amounts of damage and will definitely be needed to shoot through any character's bubble wrap. The punisher, while not cheap is 40 strength 5 shots, no AP even if a model has a 2+ save, the punisher is going to get wounds through. I've had battle cannons whiff against mortarian, then had a punisher w/ 3 HB and some infantry drop him in 1 turn.

[tychobi]

Bullgyns. You need to be able to stop the rush and no other AM unit can do the job like bullgyns.

[Wassa]

He likes to field Nurgle and Tzeentch daemons.

 

 

Volume of fire is fine and all, but how do we get to target the Daemon Princes? They can hide behind their infantry screens, then fly ahead and charge into your tank(s) when they're ready.

 

I'm fine with bringing Punishers, Mortars, Lasgun Spam, Hellhounds, but it's the bigger things that worry me.

 

 

I even considered bringing a Catachan Super Heavy armed with 4x Twin heavy flamers which would be amazing against the hordes, but the big guns on them aren't that useful.

[Gederas]

Having played Daemons, I'll repeat what other say:

 

Weight of fire if they're bringing hordes, big guns if they're bringing big stuff.

 

He likes to field Nurgle and Tzeentch daemons.

 

Volume of fire is fine and all, but how do we get to target the Daemon Princes? They can hide behind their infantry screens, then fly ahead and charge into your tank(s) when they're ready.

 

I'm fine with bringing Punishers, Mortars, Lasgun Spam, Hellhounds, but it's the bigger things that worry me.

 

I even considered bringing a Catachan Super Heavy armed with 4x Twin heavy flamers which would be amazing against the hordes, but the big guns on them aren't that useful.

Nurgle and Tzeentch Daemons? Good lord that's a match made in hell... For you.

 

And how do you target Daemon Princes? Same way as every other sub-10 Wound character: Snipers

 

I am not sure, having really no experience in 8th against demons yet. There is probably alot to consider, what with terrain, deployment conditions, mission, objectives, psykers, doctrines, etc. I wonder if most people share a couple rules of thumb when facing demons. It seems to me that separation is vital, and having withering firepower, all the while executing your plan to claim victory in the end. I share my two cents worth as follows: lots of meat shields, tanks with sponsons, a Lord of War, mortars, and scions to drop in and exploit openings as the demon army advances, and inevitably leaves holes to deep strike in and pop off plasma against key chaos units. Sorry, wish I could be more helpful. Good Hunting!

The biggest problem is if they bring Nurgel demons. All Nurgel chaos units are resilient and it becomes a question of how lucky your dice rolls are and how unlucky they are.

Can confirm, Nurgle Daemons are just mean. Especially to Guard since a lot of weapons with large volume of fire are weaker. Like, in a 3k game I used Death Guard/Nurgle Daemons against Space Marines, and Mortarion (I mean, he is a Nurgle Daemon) took almost the entire enemy force's firepower to take down because I boosted him to T8. No, seriously: A 470 point model took 2931 points of shooting for them to kill.

 

And then Rotigus showed up turn 2, and second verse, same as the first. Except Rotigus survived :lol:

[HallofStovokor]

With tzeench demons, you just need to prioritize targets effectively and watch out for movement shenanigans and smite spam (thousand sons). Nurgle is simpler to fight, but winning against death guard and nurgle demons is dependent on luck. You can help this out with the relic of lost cadia. Using your orders effectively will also help. You should definitely use the STT warlord trait to maximize orders. Other than that, bring mortars, basilisks and tanks.

[MrZakalwe]

Relic of Lost Cadia makes Chaos Daemons a fairly easy matchup for us- add Vengeance for Cadia in overwatch (super fun with Defensive gunners on a Punisher) to surprise wipe a unit in the enemy turn and you're golden.

 

I can't overstate how powerful Vengeance for Cadia is - use it at the right time and you will pretty much sweep them off the board.

 

Screen aggressively and in depth as Horrors can drop and clear a single layer screen with casual ease. Don't be afraid to use 'take cover'/D3 battleshock strat on an infantry squad to maintain the screen if it looks like a gap will form.

 

Generally Daemons get a little screwed against Guard as we have some blisteringly powerful special rules for fighting them and they get nothing to better fight us.

[Tirak]

Punishers are good, Vulture's with Punishers are good as they can block movement. Just don't put them too close to a Daemon Prince.