Chris521 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 There have been a few things pop up in the last couple of days that look like oversights in Chapter Approved. I figured that I would send them an email at the end of the week to ask these questions. If anyone has questions, please post them. Point discrepancies- Veterans in Command squads 5 points or 6 points? HellStrike Missiles -12 points HellStrike Missile -30 points FAQ- ( unclear wording, RAW vs RAI) -don't have any myself at the moment but I'm sure there are some. *edit* maybe advancing with the new tank stratagem? This email is not meant to suggest or complain about rules. I'm only looking for oversights here. Also, while I won't shoot down other armies, this is intended for the Guard Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 There have been a few things pop up in the last couple of days that look like oversights in Chapter Approved. I figured that I would send them an email at the end of the week to ask these questions. If anyone has questions, please post them. Point discrepancies- Veterans in Command squads 5 points or 6 points? HellStrike Missiles -12 points HellStrike Missile -30 points FAQ- ( unclear wording, RAW vs RAI) -don't have any myself at the moment but I'm sure there are some. *edit* maybe advancing with the new tank stratagem? This email is not meant to suggest or complain about rules. I'm only looking for oversights here. Also, while I won't shoot down other armies, this is intended for the Guard Codex. The Hellstrike thing is intentional. Hellstrikes used to be 20 points in both IA and the codex. When CA came out the first time it sent them up to 30 points. If I may put my conspiracy hat on, this is because GW wants to make FW options as terrible as possible so no one will miss them when they finally pull the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I hope that there's some clarifications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 If you are doing Vigilus as well, the Hammer of Sunderance and the grinding advance rule. As written, Hammer of Sunderance does not get to fire twice, or ignore the -1 moving penalty as it is not in the list of turret weapons. I probably wouldn't bother with the advancing one, as I don't imagine it was their intention anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 It feels as though they didn't put much thought into the wording of vigilus, considering that they know how much people will dissect the rules to find any loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Re: vigilus. Tempestus stratagem. It says a tempestus drop force valkyrie an use its grav chute ability and not roll for unit inside. It doesnt say it has to be a tempestus drop force infantry unit. Right now you could drop bullgryn after moving 55" without any concerns of killing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Re: vigilus. Tempestus stratagem. It says a tempestus drop force valkyrie an use its grav chute ability and not roll for unit inside. It doesnt say it has to be a tempestus drop force infantry unit. Right now you could drop bullgryn after moving 55" without any concerns of killing one. This might be intentional as you could take a bodyguard for an officer and have him jump out with him. Could also be an oversight, but you have to jump out more than 9" away so not the end of the world and now none of your scions are dropping out safely to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Yeah, I also think it’s intentional. They’ve had plenty of time to faq or remove ogryns using the grav chute ability and they haven’t. It’s been there since the codex. This just means they don’t have to roll. Although to be honest, I’m not sure why you’d ever deploy scions that way anyway. They have native deepstrike that is risk free so why anyone would ever do it from a Valkyrie via grav chute is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Cause the warlord trait from this detachment only triggers after a valk jump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, it allows you to get within 9" for rapid fire, which also activates the doctrine. And you have a valkyrie for overwatch. And you can drop on turn 1, if you have space near a good target. Valkyrie's also have ok fire power for a transport, and if you somehow survive then you can mount up and head off again. Lot's of advantages to using a valkyrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkmilkana Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Though there is also a big disadvantage: if the enemy manages to down the valk turn 1, everyone inside is now a footslogger and the warlord trait is wasted. Well, and you have to pay to pay for the valk itself. I still think it’s a viable and even powerful tactic, but only if you offer the opponent target saturation. Will he focus to shoot down the valk or try to neutralize one of your vultures/ (catachan/Cadian/talarn) tank commanders/other juicy high toughness targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassa Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Did they clarify Valkyries only having “1 Hellstrike Missiles” rather than 2 missiles like the 2 rocket pods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, it allows you to get within 9" for rapid fire, which also activates the doctrine. And you have a valkyrie for overwatch. And you can drop on turn 1, if you have space near a good target. Valkyrie's also have ok fire power for a transport, and if you somehow survive then you can mount up and head off again. Lot's of advantages to using a valkyrie. I’m not saying don’t have a valkyrie, lots of advantages like you say, but just put it on empty and deep strike the scions next to wherever you park it so you don’t have to grav chute. It’s slightly different for this detachment with the trait (but even that isn’t great considering it likely cost you 2 or even 3cp to use it with the grav chute strat) but other than the turn 1 deployment I don’t really see any advantage in embarking them in the Valkyrie at the start, especially if you don’t want the trait. Putting a significant force in the valk at the start is just begging for it to be obliterated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, it allows you to get within 9" for rapid fire, which also activates the doctrine. And you have a valkyrie for overwatch. And you can drop on turn 1, if you have space near a good target. Valkyrie's also have ok fire power for a transport, and if you somehow survive then you can mount up and head off again. Lot's of advantages to using a valkyrie. I’m not saying don’t have a valkyrie, lots of advantages like you say, but just put it on empty and deep strike the scions next to wherever you park it so you don’t have to grav chute. It’s slightly different for this detachment with the trait (but even that isn’t great considering it likely cost you 2 or even 3cp to use it with the grav chute strat) but other than the turn 1 deployment I don’t really see any advantage in embarking them in the Valkyrie at the start, especially if you don’t want the trait. Putting a significant force in the valk at the start is just begging for it to be obliterated. Sorry, I didn't really highlight what I thought the biggest advantage was. Everything pales in comparison to being able to drop within 9". That is a huge advantage that you only get with a transport. Sure, you have been able to do it anyway but the drop formation takes most of the risk out of it. Anyway, a bit off topic. I think we had a Scion thread around somewhere recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, it allows you to get within 9" for rapid fire, which also activates the doctrine. And you have a valkyrie for overwatch. And you can drop on turn 1, if you have space near a good target. Valkyrie's also have ok fire power for a transport, and if you somehow survive then you can mount up and head off again. Lot's of advantages to using a valkyrie. I’m not saying don’t have a valkyrie, lots of advantages like you say, but just put it on empty and deep strike the scions next to wherever you park it so you don’t have to grav chute. It’s slightly different for this detachment with the trait (but even that isn’t great considering it likely cost you 2 or even 3cp to use it with the grav chute strat) but other than the turn 1 deployment I don’t really see any advantage in embarking them in the Valkyrie at the start, especially if you don’t want the trait. Putting a significant force in the valk at the start is just begging for it to be obliterated. Sorry, I didn't really highlight what I thought the biggest advantage was. Everything pales in comparison to being able to drop within 9". That is a huge advantage that you only get with a transport. Sure, you have been able to do it anyway but the drop formation takes most of the risk out of it. Anyway, a bit off topic. I think we had a Scion thread around somewhere recently. Dropping close is great but you can’t drop within 9 if you use grav chute insertion, it still has the same 9 inch restriction as regular deep strike. You can only disembark within 9 inches if you do it the normal way, before the valk moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Dropping close is great but you can’t drop within 9 if you use grav chute insertion, it still has the same 9 inch restriction as regular deep strike. You can only disembark within 9 inches if you do it the normal way, before the valk moves. You are free to move after disembarking though, which lets you get within 9". Normally you have to disembark before moving, so this isn't too useful. However, with grav chute this is not the case, so you can drop over 9" away then move closer into rapid fire, or even bonus melta, range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Did they clarify Valkyries only having “1 Hellstrike Missiles” rather than 2 missiles like the 2 rocket pods I don't think they ever did. Hellstrike Missiles are no longer 1 shot weapons though, so it's not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Dropping close is great but you can’t drop within 9 if you use grav chute insertion, it still has the same 9 inch restriction as regular deep strike. You can only disembark within 9 inches if you do it the normal way, before the valk moves. You are free to move after disembarking though, which lets you get within 9". Normally you have to disembark before moving, so this isn't too useful. However, with grav chute this is not the case, so you can drop over 9" away then move closer into rapid fire, or even bonus melta, range. Fair enough, might not be as useless as I thought but I still think it’s a big investment when they’ve got deep strike built in. Might give it a try and see if I fall in love with it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Also, it allows you to get within 9" for rapid fire, which also activates the doctrine. And you have a valkyrie for overwatch. And you can drop on turn 1, if you have space near a good target. Valkyrie's also have ok fire power for a transport, and if you somehow survive then you can mount up and head off again. Lot's of advantages to using a valkyrie. I’m not saying don’t have a valkyrie, lots of advantages like you say, but just put it on empty and deep strike the scions next to wherever you park it so you don’t have to grav chute. It’s slightly different for this detachment with the trait (but even that isn’t great considering it likely cost you 2 or even 3cp to use it with the grav chute strat) but other than the turn 1 deployment I don’t really see any advantage in embarking them in the Valkyrie at the start, especially if you don’t want the trait. Putting a significant force in the valk at the start is just begging for it to be obliterated. Sorry, I didn't really highlight what I thought the biggest advantage was. Everything pales in comparison to being able to drop within 9". That is a huge advantage that you only get with a transport. Sure, you have been able to do it anyway but the drop formation takes most of the risk out of it. Anyway, a bit off topic. I think we had a Scion thread around somewhere recently. Dropping close is great but you can’t drop within 9 if you use grav chute insertion, it still has the same 9 inch restriction as regular deep strike. You can only disembark within 9 inches if you do it the normal way, before the valk moves. I'll be honest I completely missed this at first. Valkyries are not something I've really ever used and no one else locally has any guard. I saw someone else mention it today as well so I realize now just how mean this can be. If you want to take a chance you could even risk dropping ten man scion squads with an officer taking the warlord trait in tandem. Needless to say I need to completely rethink my short and long term goals for my scion force even if they FAQ this to not help Ogryns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Thanks for the responses. I'll type up the email later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickstick Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Oh, one last one that came up. Can you use the Emperor's Blade stratagem "Rapid Redeploy" to disembark on a turn you embark? It is a bit unclear whether or not the stratagem overrides the rule book prohibition on disembarking after embarking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Donno vslks only look good at ferrying ccq units to me, youve got the dagger/tallarn/scions for shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Re: vigilus. Tempestus stratagem. It says a tempestus drop force valkyrie an use its grav chute ability and not roll for unit inside. It doesnt say it has to be a tempestus drop force infantry unit. Right now you could drop bullgryn after moving 55" without any concerns of killing one. Not sure if anyone has noticed this yet, but the infantry in question must also have the "tempestus drop force" keyword. A squad of bullgryns do not apply for the keyword. Edit: my bad, the stratagem does, in fact, not care what is embarked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZakalwe Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Thanks for the responses. I'll type up the email later. Hi dude, Did you get round to this in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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