Stalker bolt rifle, Viable after CA?

[Paladin777]

Now that the stalker bolt rifle is zero points, what are peoples thoughts about having a single cover camping squad with them for the purpose of sitting on a home objective?

 

Edit: I meant to put this in the main discussion forum, in a moderator could help me out with this one I’d appreciate it…

[Jorre]

I really like it..... if they remain stationary all game and as far back as possible its actually superior

[Arkhanist]

You're paying 4 points per model extra for -2 AP over scout snipers (without cloaks, sniper rifles also dropped 2 points), but can't target characters and don't get the mortal wound on a 6. On the other hand, intercessors also get +1 save, wound and attack (and free grenade launcher) and scouts have to pay an extra 3 for camo cloaks (for the same save in cover) bringing the difference down to a single point.

 

So a stalker intercessor squad is definitely a tougher roadbump for deep strikers, particularly with red thirst with that extra A, and scout snipers fishing for mortal wounds are generally considered underwhelming. If you're playing miono BA, I'd agree it's definitely a viable option for babysitting a rear objective; they've dropped what, 5 points a model from their launch cost?

 

The real opponent for that job I think is if you're taking the cheesy 32 you can have 2 infantry squads inc a mortar for the same points as 5 stalker intercessors, and get free orders and generating more CP with their buddies to boot.

[Ishagu]

It's good for a durable, backfield objective squad.

[Raven1]

Stalker bolt rifles are really 0 points? I thought it was a mistake on battlescribe. That said if you want to sit and support forward units i think the loyal 32 with mortars are probably better at least in a competitive sense, however if you want a pure power armor army definitely a solid choice for your back line.

[Panzer]

As long as Stalker Bolter don't get the Sniper rule I feel they have to compete with Heavy variant Hellblaster and I don't think they can compete there. Considering they are Troops so they have ObSec I'd rather want my Intercessors in the middle of the board anyway tbh.

[Brother Tyler]

Edit: I meant to put this in the main discussion forum, in a moderator could help me out with this one I’d appreciate it…

The topic is about an Adeptus Astartes weapon, so it goes in Adeptus Astartes.

[Trevak Dal]

Why don't they have sniper, the DW stalker is heavy 2 right? Is this the one gun Cawl didn't get his Xibit on?

[Tamiel]

The real opponent for that job I think is if you're taking the cheesy 32 you can have 2 infantry squads inc a mortar for the same points as 5 stalker intercessors, and get free orders and generating more CP with their buddies to boot.

You've nailed it on the head. The cheesy 32 does the job of camping backfield objectives so cost-effectively, it makes you wonder why you shouldn't take them in every imperial army.

[Dracos]

As long as Stalker Bolter don't get the Sniper rule I feel they have to compete with Heavy variant Hellblaster and I don't think they can compete there. Considering they are Troops so they have ObSec I'd rather want my Intercessors in the middle of the board anyway tbh.

Truly curious as to your reasoning. The Stalker Intercessor is half on a Heavy Hellblaster. I would that for half the cost they would be great for backfield duty and covering your other units, allowing you to use the Hellblasters as a midfield player delivering rapid fire plasma more aggressively. I need to work on it but I playing around with the idea of 10 Stalkers in the backfield regular Intercessors on the forward flanks, Scouts pushes forward (Raven Guard) and Hellblasters and Aggressors playing the role of “come get some”. Mind you they’ll eventually be a couple a Xiphons providing air support ;)

[Panzer]

 

As long as Stalker Bolter don't get the Sniper rule I feel they have to compete with Heavy variant Hellblaster and I don't think they can compete there. Considering they are Troops so they have ObSec I'd rather want my Intercessors in the middle of the board anyway tbh.

Truly curious as to your reasoning. The Stalker Intercessor is half on a Heavy Hellblaster. I would that for half the cost they would be great for backfield duty and covering your other units, allowing you to use the Hellblasters as a midfield player delivering rapid fire plasma more aggressively. I need to work on it but I playing around with the idea of 10 Stalkers in the backfield regular Intercessors on the forward flanks, Scouts pushes forward (Raven Guard) and Hellblasters and Aggressors playing the role of “come get some”. Mind you they’ll eventually be a couple a Xiphons providing air support

 

 

To be fair I simply don't have any backfield unit in the first place with my Primaris. I just don't think Stalker will do all that much work on their own while Heavy Hellblaster are still a nice threat without big numbers or support. If I'd use Scouts in my lists I'd probably use those as backfield unit and give them real Sniper rifles tho. ^^

That's the difference between playing Raven Guard and playing Blood Angels I guess. :P

[SydonianDragoon404]

The main issue with that is that the new missions almost require having one or more units that can sit on an objective in your deployment zone. They also require the ability to have some mobility to get into your opponents zone and take the midfield so you can't just castle up. 

 

I feel like a unit of intercessor veterans with stalkers make for a good option for an objective secured unit that can sit in your deployment zone and still effect the rest of the board whilst also being hardy enough to hold off units that your typical opponent would to use to port in or drop off to take your deployment zone. You obviously would want more than just them though. Devastators and Rapiers I've found make for decent long range support. 

[The Unseen]

Unless you hate scouts/devs/rapiers, or are running Primaris only, they aren't great.

If you need a backfield objective holder for an all primaris army, and you also won't use non-redemptor dreadnoughts like the contemptor mortis, they're the least terrible option?

When your limiting yourself that heavily though, I figure winning games is probably lower on your priority list.

 

But paying 85 points for 5 mediocre anti infantry shots is pretty poor return.

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

The real opponent for that job I think is if you're taking the cheesy 32 you can have 2 infantry squads inc a mortar for the same points as 5 stalker intercessors, and get free orders and generating more CP with their buddies to boot.

You've nailed it on the head. The cheesy 32 does the job of camping backfield objectives so cost-effectively, it makes you wonder why you shouldn't take them in every imperial army.

Because in some cases you don’t need an 180 point tax for CP. The Loyal 32 in many ways are actively bad, surrendering a first blood, and unable to effectively contribute to the engagement. In other words, for price of Loyal 32 you get 2 Intercessors with Power Swords.

 

To expand this context. Outside optimal range, you are killing 1 marine, if you use FRSRTRF, you are killing 3 (doing 3 MeQ Wounds). Those Intercessors at that distance are 1.65 Marines. Now you will chime and look at he inefficiency of Intercessors!

 

We are talking 10 Models on a single point shooting another model. Vs 27 Models targeting to be within 24”, so having to be a board edge. Pushing your objective up vs 30”. Additionally once combat is joined or a bully unit (Reivars or Scout Squads. Really anything cheap and disposable. Scions are also bully Esque).

 

10 Scouts will do 21 attacks, 14 hit and around 9 wounds. Wiping out a Gaurd squads on leadership. Those Intercessors in contrast only lose a single model. And your Gaurdsman shooting back, 72 hit, 36 hit and 12 wound. Kill 6 Scouts or 4 Marines. Now let us compare our Intercessors. First they hit back. The Power Sword Sgt Will normally kill 1, the the other 3 Intercessors will kill another. Now in combat two scouts are dead. Intercessors withdraw or stay, but let say withdraw for now.

 

Second Intercessor shoots, killing 1.65 Scouts. Charging Power Sword kills another. As the regular Intercessors another kill. We just Killed about 6 Scouts and only suffered marginally casualties, and made said scouts locked, but also dead to combat on there turn. Where the Loyal 32 is now a Loyal 22. And the scouts even if they get charged might lose 1. But on the swing back. Will kill another 3. And likely kill the squad off in there following turn.

 

The other comparison here is the for the price of Loyal 32 you get 2 Plasm/Plasma Tacticals with 6 points to spare. At range those plasma/plasma will kill around 2 MeQ (2.4 if you want to get technical). So just less than ordered Gaurdsman. Except with Plasma they can engage a variety of threats. And once again like the Intercessors have easily engagement. But we are referring to Stalkers.

 

So Gaurd at Range with Orders kill 3 MeQ or 9 Gaurdsman.

 

A 2 Stalker Intercessor Squad will kill, 2.22. And 4-5 Gaurdsman outright. But by extension they can focus fire easier and are better at warding off bullies. Also 10 points cheaper. Secondly, Loyal 32 are 180 point for 5 CP.

 

With two Intercessor Squads, all you need now is like a Scout Squad, and two characters (perhaps a double SlamCaptain). The SlamCaptains are worthwhile onto themselves. So the tax vs the Loyal 32 is 45 points for a Scout Squad.

 

End of the day? Proper tool for the proper job. Loyal 32 are a cheap 5 CP. The only really do that. They cannot practically engage in the midfield. Or they die. They die to basically any bully unit. And almost always surrender a VP. If you want a backfield, objective holding unit, Stalker Intercessors are not the worse. And do the job appreciably well. And don’t die to the first scout squad that knocks.

[Panzer]

The loyal32 are not "just" cheap 5CP. They also create a huge deep strike denial zone and can easily hold more than just one objective. Just saying.

[Schlitzaf]

The loyal32 are not "just" cheap 5CP. They also create a huge deep strike denial zone and can easily hold more than just one objective. Just saying.

Also not wrong, the Loyal 32 have there place. If you are looking for a unit or two to hold a single backfield objective. Then Stalker Cessors do fine.*

 

*The Deep Strike Denial only important in the sense you need to deny something. If the thing you are denying for can fight off threats, is there a need to deny?

 

**Not saying deep strike denial is not important. But denial is only as important as what is being denied. In the case of backfield loyal 32 is normally the objective itself being denied. In which case the denial element is moot. Loyal 32 denial is best in midfield, where the bodies can spread out and being tissue paper doesn’t matter as you only need 1 turn denial and scouts have the ability to deny enemy backfield.

 

***That said you need your tissue paper chaff to survive one turn in beta rules. So you may want some like Crusaders or Marines in midfield whom need more than 20 Bolter shots to be displaced.

[Closet Skeleton]

I'm building a unit of 10 because I always planned on having one when I first looked at the Intercessor datasheet. If they're okay that's just a bonus.

 

Stalker Bolt rifles being free means if massed enemies get up close then your lack of rapid fire is at least not a disadvantage you had to pay for.

[Dracos]

Stalker Bolt rifles being free means if massed enemies get up close then your lack of rapid fire is at least not a disadvantage you had to pay for.

Stick an Assault Sentry Gun with them and the opponent will either have to target the Sentry Gun or take a face full of heavy dakka.