Space Wolves and Forgeworld, Viable? Share exeriences....

[faithonwings]

Hey there fellow wulfen! 

 

Yes, CA 2018 just dropped and yes whe got that Stalker Pack to play around with. So why a topic about Forgeworld models? 

 

Being new to Space Wolves in 8th edition I just started my army. My main idea for a 8th edition list is something like this:

 

- Rune Priest with Jump Pack

- TH/SS Wolf Lord with Jump Pack

 

- 5x 5 Bloodclaws, PL's have a fist

 

3x SW Flyers. all with heavy bolters

 

Comes around 1500 points so have 500 spare for a 2k list.

 

 

Idea is to fly forward guns blazing with the flyers. Jump out and assault with the BC's. Main problem with this list... it does not have a backfield to hold objectives. So I'm looking for models that can hold a backfield and support my assaulting units from a decent range. I was looking at Siccaran tanks, Leviathan Dreadnoughts, Chaplain Dreadnoughts, Rapier Cariers... there is just some much stuff to chose from. Normally I would try and find battlereports with units I consider playing, just to see if the work. But that's the problem, I just can't find any. Is playing SW with forgeworld models so uncommon? Does anyone have any experience with combing Forgeworld with the SW codex? Could you please share to experiences here so whe can all learn from them?

 

[Splog]

The Sicaran is a good choice, but using it as an autocannon platform it has stuff competition from the Deredeo and Leviathan. It’s main advantage is that it is quite nippy at 14” so you have more flexibility manouvering or zooming off to get an objective (and can still shioot its main gun if it advances).

 

The Leviathan is a beast. I always take the hunter killer missiles; 18 points to fire off three krak missile shots at BS 2/3. It’s rather sturdy at T8 2+/4++ and a load of wounds. Frustratingly though (for me anyway) is that it does best as a weapon platform with two gun arms. This just seems wrong to me. All the weapons are good, the Storm Cannon stands out as the best all-rounder.

 

The other potential annoyance with both units is they are Relic units. This means you need at least as many non-relic units in the same detachment slot. So you’re going to have to add some Elite or Heavy choices.

[faithonwings]

Awesome... just a few minutes up and already a reply. And a good one even!!

 

The Leviathan indead looks awesome on paper and with 2 gun arms it is a lethal weapon. But with a max range of 24"... can it hold objectives at a back field? On the other hand, with a leviathan in the back field my flyers might not become the prime target of my enemy's anti tank in T1... hmmm tough call.

 

What would you chose? Sicaran or Leviathan with my list?

[Splog]

It depends on what else you’re going to take. The Leviathan will be wasted as a backfield camper if your opponent stays out of range. But you will need another heavy choice to take the Leviathan... the Whirlwind is a good option for backfield camping. Cheap, long range, doesn’t need LOS.

 

A two gun armed Leviathan makes a v.good target for stratagems like Chooser of the Slain or Keen Senses (hot flyers on a 2+ while moving..). The more Dakka you put into your unit the more payoff you can get for your CP.

 

The Sicaran is still a good choice, with range and speed on its side. A shame it doesn’t have the Leviathan’s invulnerable save.

 

(So, part of the answer is ‘it depends’, the other part is ‘the Leviathan is awesome’).

[faithonwings]

The whirwind, is it worth it these days? It use to be terrible... Will look into that.

 

I was thinking about Rapier Gun platforms, even cheaper en again... no LOS requered. But do 1-2 units of Rapiers or Whirwinds make a propper backfield?? Still looks something fragile against alfa striking.

[PeteySödes]

I don’t think id do that much from FW as a backfield. Mortis dreads are about as close as I’d do since they don’t need too much support and hit on 2s if you camp them. Levi’s are too short ranged and are meant to be aggressive IMO.

 

Sicaran of every flavor are great but if you sit them your not using its best asset which is it’s movement. Lone vehicles also are in danger of getting locked.

 

If your dead set on FW consider long fangs but flank them with 2 rapier quad mortar battieres. The indirect fire is nice but the main draw is the shatter shells IMO. That or a relic contemptor and a squad of dudes. I’ve actually been liking intercessors with stalkers for my backfield.

 

I’ve also considered hunting down some tarantulas and parking them, annoying and not worth the opponents time BUT they have to deal with them at some point. I haven’t tested the tarantulas but it seems fun.

[faithonwings]

Thank you for giving another opinion on the matter and giving food for thought.

 

I am not hellbend on using FW, I was wondering if FW is viable. Any other advice is welcome to.

[Yoyo ninja]

What about Deredeo dread? Their whole thing seems to be sit back and shoot stuff. I've not used one, just thought they might make a good forgeworld dread option.

[PeteySödes]

What about Deredeo dread? Their whole thing seems to be sit back and shoot stuff. I've not used one, just thought they might make a good forgeworld dread option.

It’s preference I think but I like the relic contemptor better, with the points drop I just think their better and more versatile. The arachnid battery is less shots than a twin las and the difference in s9/10 is meh in all but the most fringe opponent cases.

 

Plus I don’t have one :D

[Cpt.Danjou]

I have toyed with the idea of having a Whirlwind supporting my long fangs for backfield shenanigans, it is cheap enough and effective enough to dig out infantry, like Ad-mech Delldars, Tau and guard. The Sicaran looks good on paper and is an awesome model. I have thought about a leviathan but I am to much in love with my Long fangs so does not fit in my lists. I will probably get a Leviathan just for the model, just like I probably get that special Space wolf legion Contemptor just because of the model. The biggest problem I have with Forge world stuff is that our codex has something does the same job better and/or is cheaper in points

Otherwise I use Forge World for kitting out vehicles and squads so the look more awesome. A Razorback with the Space wolf doors and front plate looks better than the standard one, my plan is to get the HH space wolf kit with shields just so my Wolf guard have proper looking shields etc.  

 

Cpt. Danjou

[faithonwings]

The biggest problem I have with Forge world stuff is that our codex has something does the same job better and/or is cheaper in points

Do others recognize this problem?

 

I was looking at the sicaran tanks the other day, one of them has a 18S 5 shot weapon AP-1 for only 165 points. Neat, I thought. But then I found out a Redemptor dread with dual onslaught has the exact same number of shots AND close combat weapons for about the same points now with the CA drop. Is it still worth it? What do you guys think?

[Vash113]

 

The biggest problem I have with Forge world stuff is that our codex has something does the same job better and/or is cheaper in points

Do others recognize this problem?

 

Yes that is certainly a problem with FW units, for what you are spending on them in $$$ and points there are usually better options to be had. They just don't really stand out from the crowd all that much or do things that nothing else can. There are some units that are alright but I wouldn't expect to see anything from FW as a must have.

 

Deredeo dreads can be alright, Sicarans are pretty good, Mortis Contemptors, some people really like the Leviathan. Ultimately in my opinion you should think of FW more as a hobby or aesthetic choice, a nice unusual centerpiece model for an army, not a powerful unit that's going to really turn heads on the tabletop, and that goes for more than just Space Wolves or marines.

[PeteySödes]

The sicaran battle tank lost a little bit of magic with the intro of keen sences but it’s still better than the redemptor IMO. More range, faster, and can uses that movement fully when shooting units with fly(no shortage there). It also works amazing against all flavors of eldar when you can bait lightning reflexes and ignore it with both keen sences and the high velocity tracking.

 

I think the FW CC dreads don’t stack up to our axe/shields so I agree there. The only other FW unit I haven’t mentioned here yet is the Lucius Pod which still works well with our dreads.

 

Overall I don’t think they’re overpriced but they ARE specialized and if it’s the right tool will do really well.

[Kallas]

Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts are damn good for their cost, and they basically invalidate the Predator's entire existence! Regular Mortis Dreadnoughts are also good as they're cheap. Both are solid backline units for either anti infantry (2x Assault Cannons/Twin Heavy Bolters) or anti vehicle work (2x Twin Lascannons).

 

Long Fangs compete, as they're approximately the same points range, and they're easier to plop in cover, possibly with a TDAWGPL with Storm Shield for extra resilience; but they're still pretty flimsy for the most part.

 

Leviathans are potent, but they are fairly expensive and do need to be aggressive with their short range.

 

Sicarians are good (predominantly the Battle Tank, Punisher, and Venator), and their high speed is good but less needed if you plan to park them in your backfield.

 

Whirlwind Scorpius are powerful, with a good number of shots to boot, but they are expensive - the newly reduced cost of regular Whirlwinds does make them more attractive but they're still anaemic, whereas the Scorpius is brutally powerful vs pretty much all infantry and light/medium vehicles.

 

Quad Mortar Rapier Carriers are certainly solid, particularly at their cost which is not at all expensive.

 

Tarantula Sentry Guns are also really nice and cheap, and while their basic loadout is middling BS and has targeting restrictions it's still a good little turret. They're useful for deep strike denial, a little anti infantry firepower, and for filling out a Brigade.

[TiguriusX]

i ran a leviathan with dual storm cannons as my anchor unit before the SW codex dropped (been busy with RL since then)

 

It was awesome but a fire magnet...it was a coin flip to die turn 1 but it took a pound of flesh if i got first turn

 

After our codex the leviathan was buffed (chooser of the slain etc.) but i havent had time to use it

 

Yes the leviathan is costly but T8 and 2+ 4++ is formidable and i run an IP with it as well so failure to focus fire will result in healing every turn possible. I think my record is 12 wounds healed in a game v knights

[PeteySödes]

Yea you have to build around him being a hefty chonk but I always have a great time fielding him.

[faithonwings]

The sicaran battle tank lost a little bit of magic with the intro of keen sences but it’s still better than the redemptor IMO. 

 

I was trying to compare the Sicaran Punisher with the Redemtor. I think the Sicaran Battle tank has a very different role so it would be hard to compare don't you think? With almost the same amount of S5 shots the choise between te to is hard to make. The Sicaran has more movement and 1 more wound. But the Redemptor is pretty good in close combat and isn't a relic.

 

Does anyone think the Redemtor is any good?

 

i ran a leviathan with dual storm cannons as my anchor unit before the SW codex dropped (been busy with RL since then)

 

It was awesome but a fire magnet...it was a coin flip to die turn 1 but it took a pound of flesh if i got first turn

 

After our codex the leviathan was buffed (chooser of the slain etc.) but i havent had time to use it

 

Yes the leviathan is costly but T8 and 2+ 4++ is formidable and i run an IP with it as well so failure to focus fire will result in healing every turn possible. I think my record is 12 wounds healed in a game v knights

 

A fire magnet might not be a bad thing. My list above has 3 flyers with BC's that really want to hit someone in the face so would be save from target priority turn one. If I get turn one on the other hand... my my, that leviathan seems deadly.

[PeteySödes]

I haven’t used the the punisher variant though I want to so I don’t have any experience there for you but the battle tank is also reallyand still fits a similar role. Comparing the main cannons the punisher dishes out more heavy bolter shots essentially and gets the reroll 1s if you park it. The battle tank is almost half the shots, but they’re way better shots.

 

The punisher fits more tightly into an anti infantry role while the battle tank still can do that same job pretty damn well but also it really versitile. I’ve used it to nasty effect against orks where it shreds boys and light/med vehicles nicely. My eldar guys hate it because I’m not afraid to move it while it perforates most of their stuff too since it’s all got fly.

 

As for the redemptor I’m just not impressed. I think it does fine if your doing a primaris force and I haven’t used it since CA but it’s just a resounding meh from me really. The punisher outranges it and the stuff that gets used to tie up vehicles honestly isn’t going to be afraid of the redemptor in CC so would want the same backup if your using it as a gun battery.

[Mordin39]

I like to use the vindicator laser destroyer, it's pretty solid and kicks out some serious damage, back it up with some longfangs and they can take down most things.

[faithonwings]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think indeed the battle tank is more versatile but the punisher is more specialised in anti infantry. Will also look into the laser destroyer.