On wings of shadow

[Nova_chron]

Greetings cousins I have traveled from the fang and have found in the warriors of the ravenspire a new drive for the hobby but I have some questions for you all.

 

1: what are you finding works best for you painting a black that is not flat looking.

 

2: I like the new primaris line but I feel like there is something missing from it to get the full ravenguard feel.

 

3: anything else that would help this old wolf run alongside ravens.

[9x19 Parabellum]

1. I have found that the answer to this question is more like searching for the Holy Grail.  The point of it is the journey, not the destination. Or something like that. In any event, it's really hard to find it.

 

2. I agree, but I haven't figured out a solution to this problem yet. I'm actually thinking about stripping all my Ravens off my shoulders and replacing them with a Templar Cross or a Hand. Not sure which yet.

 

3. You might be looking in envy at that sweet sweet chapter tactic, and thinking "wow that's awesome. so good." And that's true.  Then you might think "maximize range at all times to leverage sweet sweet chapter tactic!".  And you won't realize the destination that your brain leads you, and before you know it you'll end up with a huddled around Capt/Lt gunline.  That is a trap for 2 reasons: 1.) It's a boring way to play and 2.) You won't beat experienced players doing that.

[Nova_chron]

Thanks and yeah I dont like bubble huddles I was ant to build a list that feels like it is a stealth gun line with outrider elements of jump troops and bikes light mech.

[Johanhgg]

1. The way painting black that work for me is either black undercoat -> hvy drybrush of vallejo black Grey -> light dry brush of dawnstone -> nuln oil -> edge highlight a few hard edges w dawnstone

 

Or

 

Black undercoat -> hvy drybrush of Leadbelcher -> light drybrush of Runedagen Steel -> nuln oil

 

Depending on what im after. First method for Raven Guard, second method for Iron Hands, Black Templars or any of the more high intensity Warfare-chapters.

 

 

I love ravenguard, but unfortunatly i lost interest in Raven Guard due to the fact of pressing my force into a gunline and not the rapidstrike/ambush-style i want it to be :(

[Dracos]

I can help a tad with 2 & 3 since I am putting together DIY successor Chapter.

 

2) There is plenty missing from the Primaris line and that’s just a matter of being patient ... we hope. I am using Xiphons to make up for a current lack of dedicated mobility and anti-tank/knight/monster firepower. The Hellblasters and Plasma Inceptors are good supplemental firepower but really that strike me as dedicated to heavy infantry and lighter vehicles. If expensive flyers aren’t your thing then I’d strongly suggest Mortis Contemptor or one of my old favorites the Las-Predator. 1 per 1000 in my opinion is needed so at 1.5k get that second one on the board.

 

Mobility wise I’m not a fan of the Repulsor ... visually. Which is why I go another direction for firepower and mobility (hoping for a cheaper point costed transport someday. The Repulsor is expensive point cost in my opinion , even with the latest drop in points, but it’s a beast. Which is why you need two maybe three in a 2k lost because it’s going to get all that anti-tank/knight/monster love. Wall some Aggressors or Hellblaster in it and you have quite the hefty point and danger threat unit there. Largely depends on your preferred tactics I think. I like the minus 1 the Xiphons get and hope someday Marines Chapter Tactics apply to our vehicles. :)

 

3) I don’t have them and likely won’t but I think the Loyal 32 are fluffy as hell and would be a great addition to a competitive Primaris build. I just happen to like the looks (not performance for points) of the Reivers and I’m converting them to Scouts because rule of cool and Scouts are damn handy. Maybe Reivers will infiltrate someday. That goes back to the line just needs filled out. Strong opinion they get their own Codex next year (or two).. If they keep up the specialist unit concept then at some point Primaris will either have their own infiltration unit or GW will just say Scouts perform the same way for both lines. Either way until Reivers count as Troops or are given the infiltration rule I’m converting 10 to Scouts that can be retrofitted by adding the power packs and paudrons back on the models.

 

That’s a start I hope. Your going to find some really nice Raven Guard armies in here. Wish I could help there but us DIY snowflakes just gotta have our own color schemes ;)

[Nova_chron]

Haha I appreciate all the feedback. I think I'm going to try a combined arms approach for the army mixing primaris core with old guard auxiliaries kind of plan

 

I love the look of the repulsor but I love tanks and I have an Atropos knight to put a big scary on the table ( if I ever get around to finishing it )

[N1SB]

Regarding issue 1, painting black that's not flat, I struggled with this for years as a 30k Iron Hands player.

With 8th ed and Primaris, I decided to try a new technique. It was speedpainting over a matte black undercoat. It looks better on the table than in this photo:

The drybrushing, as usual, gave it a gradient, contour. It's not shades of grey. The initial highlighted was actually (in spoiler):

A shade of Turquoise/Teal, specifically GW's Dark Reaper. Not sure if it's obvious in the photo. There's some colour theory behind this. The idea is supposed to be that the human eye or brain doesn't compute this weird blue-green shade very well, it supposedly tricks the mind into not seeing it. Instead, the mind just acknowledges there's some sort of lighting effect on the black itself without understanding why. I dunno, I was told this by a art major.

After drybrushing that colour for the black power armour, I actually drybrushed some gunmetal on top. I know power armour is ceramite, but the metal edges looked like it scraped against tanks or metal surfaces, giving it a sense of wear & tear.

Just my technique. This was for a quick Deathwatch Kill Team project so I can test it out, so it was a Friday night job.

An alternative suggestion, though, Brother Nova_chron...instead of traditional Raven Guard colours, have you considered a Successor Chapter like Raptors that wear military green? Or any other Successor Chapter tbh, just to avoid painting black.

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, I like flat black. It's tactical.

 

Agreed on the Chapter Tactic. A gunline list is boring. It's great on a dreadnought moving up the board and popping smoke, and for deep striking jump packs far away. Now, people tell me that I am crazy, just bring Shrike and let them reroll charges, but I drop them in on or behind terrain, especially if it blocks Line of Sight. Now this forces your opponent to choose between shooting at 2+ and -1 to hit, or getting within 12" to negate the -1 and hope they kill enough to not worry about getting charged next turn. Just drop them in, see how your opponent reacts, and let them move into charge range.

 

Hellblasters are an obvious choice, maybe even Inceptors, but for me, Aggressors would be a good anchor backed up with an Apothecary. I have yet to see Reivers on the table yet. I just do not know.

[duz_]

Welcome to the Ravenspire chron!

 

Painting a clean black, that's something I've been chasing with my Primaris too.

A couple of things I've found helpful. Good edge highlight depending how clean/bright you want it I'd suggest at least dawnstone grey if not even a brighter offwhite light russ grey or ulthuan. And then cheat by throwing on a satin or gloss varnish ;)

I did that with my Hellblasters and was pleased. Although I'll probably have go go back and dull down their flesh tones.

 

Id definitely mix in some Vanguard Vets to get the full feel. Primaris are neat but not particularly flexible which is the RG MO.

 

Good luck! Can't wait to see pics and lists :tu:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ps. Its ok we understand how you decided to join the Ravenspire after learning how awesome the RG are and how we saved the Wolf Lords butt in the HH. ;)

[Nova_chron]

I just might go the successor route to avoid doing black and white. Tempted to base them loosely on the freemen of arakis so you get the sneaky bits there

 

I am also planning some kits from forgeworld for the list and to get some flavor because I just love those kits

[Dracos]

[Doghouse]

I find that charcoal grey with a nuln oil wash works well. Another trick I like to use is wear and tear, what I like to do is chip the edges in a similar way to to edge highlighting with lead belcher but more dabbing strokes then go over that with either nuln oil or agrax earthshade.

Slight scratches in grey or lead belcher on open areas also can work.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Greetings cousins I have traveled from the fang and have found in the warriors of the ravenspire a new drive for the hobby but I have some questions for you all.

 

1: what are you finding works best for you painting a black that is not flat looking.

 

2: I like the new primaris line but I feel like there is something missing from it to get the full ravenguard feel.

 

3: anything else that would help this old wolf run alongside ravens.

1.  Two rules I learned painting Raven Guard and Valhallan Ice Warriors.  Rule 1, when you are painting black models, do not use black paint.  Rule 2, when you are painting white models, do not use white paint.  The solutions here are using off blacks and off whites.  Skavenblight Dinge would be a good starting colour for Raven Guard.  VMC German Grey and Black Grey are also excellent.

 

2. Unless you think your Raven Guard list will be 100% complete and tabletop painted in the next 6 months I wouldnt worry about it this.  The Primaris line will get ALL the new Space Marine releases.  Old Marines are stone dead.  I would be preparing for upcoming Primaris releases by building up a strong list foundation based off of currently available Primaris Marines so that when new releases comes you can very quickly slot them into an existing list.  Go get some intercessors and start running them as Indominus Vets.  Maybe snag a few Primaris dreads also.  

 

3.  Paint models you like.  I like marines with huge guns so i got lots of devs with just about everything.  I never show up to a game with my ravenguard without 6-8 lascannons, 2 missile launchers, 2 plasmacannons, and 4 heavy bolters.  I also really like plasma pistols.  They arent particularly good but I gotta have em... reasons.  

[WickedApp]

Greetings cousins I have traveled from the fang and have found in the warriors of the ravenspire a new drive for the hobby but I have some questions for you all.

 

1: what are you finding works best for you painting a black that is not flat looking.

 

2: I like the new primaris line but I feel like there is something missing from it to get the full ravenguard feel.

 

3: anything else that would help this old wolf run alongside ravens.

 

1)      I have tried wash effects going lighter to darker, but is very time consuming.  The results have been Meh.  I would suggest using a black and mix it with a second color say red or navy blue (ratio of 4:1) or ( 3:1).  The color will still be black but it will then be easier to highlight and drybrush true black over it.

 

Ultra Marine Blue mixed with Burnt Umber creates a very Rich looking Black.

 

2) yup.  With the SFTS nerf the units are slow.  They also lack heavy firepower that you get from Dev squads or Mobility from jump packs or bikes.

 

3) Versatility, I have been setting up on back field objectives and taunting the opponent to come closer, then ambushing them with pincher style tactics.  Get my opponent to spread out and divide their forces.  It doesnt always work but the games are close.  I always find I need bigger guns.  Hellblasters are great but they are mid-rangish and have a huge bulls eye on them.

 

I have wanted to try the Aggressors, Apothacary, Banner Ancient, combo.  A Chapter master w/ this works great as long as your targets are in range.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Tacitus armor is compatible with Mk VII shoulder pads. Just get a bunch of the studded ones.

[Edit: In the Deathwatch Veteran box, there's RG shoulder pads with the Raven facing front when mounted on the right shoulder in true RG fashion. They're less than 1$ a piece on eBay. Sa-weet if, like me, you can't freehand and dislike decals.]

 

Then add the helmets like so:

 

As for 'how to play', if you're running RG + SW, your SW will probably be Melee-oriented frontline units, so backfield support won't hurt.

 

An Lt and 3 Intercessor Squads with Stalker Bolt Rifles will cost you 330 points. Take that as a foundation and you're only 1 HQ short of +5CP. Embrace that little piece of gunline or give them Auto Bolt Rifles to advance up in your opponents face at -1 to hit 'til it's too late. I'd go for ranged support fire though - and having units in the backfield prevents any Deep Strike Shenanigans you opponent might fancy doing.

 

Then you can take a few Inceptors to Strike from the Shadows up in his face - that feels Raven Guardy, right? 3 squads of 3 with Plasma weapons will cost you a bit under 550, leaving you, Auto or Stalker Bolt Rifles, around 120pts for a second HQ.

I'd SftS a 118pts Gravis Captain to support your Plasma Inceptors - and voilà, a solid almost 1000pts of Raven Guard action.

 

Alternate take:

Drop an Inceptor Squad for 2 Reiver Squads with Grav Chutes - they take Mk VII shoulder pads and helmets as well. DS them as well.

 

That's as far as I can go - what were you planning on bringing from Fenris? Your RG is meant to complement that after all, so there might be room for improvement here

[Nova_chron]

Haha I have a 6000 point deep 6th legion force so most likely a wolf guard heavy in your face list of howling hunters.

 

I also plan to run the sons of corax as their own army eventually.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Haha I have a 6000 point deep 6th legion force so most likely a wolf guard heavy in your face list of howling hunters.

 

I also plan to run the sons of corax as their own army eventually.

Oh, you're playing HH?

 

Anyway, in that case, I stand by my 1000pts list. Idk how many unity you were planning on moving to the front via Cunning of the Wolf, but if you spare the RG a few CP, you'll be pleased.

If you don't want your RG to get up into the enemy's face, drop Reivers and Inceptors, add Intercessors.

 

As for building on that... difficult with Primaris right now.

To avoid gunlines, you'd usually load up on Vanguard Vets and Assault Marines, but duh...

To play gunlines, Hellblasters are actually a mighty fine unit, and with the Assault weapon variants both they and the Intercessors can use, you can still be quite mobile while the heavy Plasma weapons give you S8 at 36" - way to make the most of RG Chapter Tactics.

 

Painting black... I've gotten good, shiny results with a 3:2 mix of Game Color Black (quite shiny) to Model Color Black Grey (dull). If you're the kind of guy who likes edge highlighting, dry brush with any medium grey you fancy (bonus points if you use metallic grey).

 

Frankly, I'd go full Primaris with a new army, especially with another one of Oldmarines all done. Shrike is a Godsend to VVs though and it would be a shame not to give it a go if you're doing RG anyway... Maybe just him and 5 with LCs?

[Nova_chron]

I'm planning to play both 40k and HH with my wolves the ravenguard will be 40k specific for the near future

 

If I do strike I will probably primarisize him to get him to fit visually with the army and make my VV out of dark furies from FW but the plan was mostly primaris units other than vehicles

[Nova_chron]

So I've started thinking up a list and keep finding my inner tread head calling for tanks how would you guys go about including predators and possibly a repulsor down the line into a primaris heavy list with some VV support because I love me the FW dark furies minus

[HighMarshalAmp]

So I've started thinking up a list and keep finding my inner tread head calling for tanks how would you guys go about including predators and possibly a repulsor down the line into a primaris heavy list with some VV support because I love me the FW dark furies minus

I'd go large on each of the Predators - all the Lascannons you can get, HK missile and the Storm Bolter just for giggles. Park 'em at a good spot and see to it that they remain hard to hit.

The Repulsor? Twin Lascannon, Heavy Onslaught and Onslaught, the Storm Bolters and the Ironhail to make use of the distance.

 

Key in both cases would be to have the vehicles as far back as possible and try to get LOS.

That would free up your infantry gunline to move up to the middle.

[Dracos]

So I've started thinking up a list and keep finding my inner tread head calling for tanks how would you guys go about including predators and possibly a repulsor down the line into a primaris heavy list with some VV support because I love me the FW dark furies minus

I’d use same rule of thumb I am for my Xiphons.

 

0 - 1000 : 1 Predator

1000-1499 : 2 Predator

1500 - 2000 : 2-3 Predators.

 

It’s easier to go heavy on Armor than Flyers due to cost but for a Primaris list I like the maneuverability the Flyers have. I’m not one to triple up on one unit because I believe it makes you susceptible to units that can take out your one-trick pony. For instance I have 2 Xiphons ... and a Lascannon Mortis Contemptor in case I need to tailor to a Knight list.

 

PS: this is exactly what I would do if I didn’t love the Xiphons so much. The Predators are the one SM tank I’ve always loved the model and performance for points. Repulsor looks like a pig ... brutal and effective ... a giant scary Razorback of a pig ;)

[Nova_chron]

Haha that's a great image for the repulsor. I have a love of flyers also and when I have the funds i see at least 2 xiphons in my future. I do have a big stompy knight in the works I was going to make it a wolf themed but now the gears are turning and building a raven themed knight would be awesome!

[Race Bannon]

Legio Vindictus. Just sayin'

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Vindictus

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legio_Vindictus

[Nova_chron]

Oh lots of thoughts swirling in my head now I must absolutely begin

[Nova_chron]

So here is my initial build idea for a 1850 list I can easily drop a grenade launcher for the point, I was just using favorited units for a quick build. A lot of it is me just working with kits I have lying about that need to be built/painted, only stuff I for sure need to buy is reiver squad and repulsor.

 

Thoughts? concerns? ideas?

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [107 PL, 1851pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Captain [6 PL, 105pts]: Jump Pack, 2x Lightning Claw, Raven's Fury

 

Primaris Librarian [7 PL, 101pts]: Force sword

 

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]

. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle

 

+ Troops +

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. 4x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. 4x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

 

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle

. 4x Intercessor

. Intercessor Sergeant: Power sword

 

+ Elites +

 

Reiver Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt Carbine, Grapnel Launcher

. 4x Reiver

. Reiver Sergeant: Combat knife, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 126pts]

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield

. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield

. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe

. Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe

. Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade, Storm shield

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Assault Squad [6 PL, 80pts]: Jump Pack

. 4x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

 

Assault Squad [6 PL, 98pts]: Jump Pack

. 2x Space Marine

. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 198pts]: Plasma incinerator

. 5x Hellblaster

. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

Predator [9 PL, 180pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Lascannons

 

Predator [9 PL, 180pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Lascannons

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Repulsor [16 PL, 324pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Auto Launchers, Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstrom Grenade Launcher, Las-talon, Twin lascannon

 

++ Total: [107 PL, 1851pts] ++

 

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