Starting Valhallans out of spite

[Frostglaive]

In my local meta, there is quite a bit of toxicity amongst our ranks. Won't go into details on that, but a lot of people have decided to use Guard as their scapegoat instead of acknowledging their own incompetence at 40k. So in my infinite wisdom, patience and total common sense, I've decided to start a Guard army. Just so I can piss off those toxic players... and because I really want a Guard army made out of Anvil Industry models. Is this smart? No. Is this going to cause problems with those people? Absolutely. Do I care? Not at all

Decided to go with the Valhallans as my regiment. Not a fan of Vostroyan, Mordian, or Armageddon. Tallarn is nice, but not what I want to do. And Cadian and Catachan are so commonplace within my local meta (and every other group I visit) that it's just become repulsive to me. Plus Valhallan fluff fits perfectly with what I want to do: Lots of bodies and lots of artillery!

 

So here's the plan so far:

 

- I am not building this army with the intention of going to tournaments or being a WAAC player. Everything I plan on bringing or avoiding is simply for Rule of Cool. If it ends up being competitive and disgusting or utterly horrible, so be it. I'm doing it anyway.

- Getting a lot of Infantry, Veterans, and even Conscripts. All will come from Anvil Industry, since they make some amazing models and some great Valhallan-esque stuff.

- There will be zero Leman Russes, Flyers, or Super-Heavies in this army.

- Ideally, I want all my Heavy Support to come from heavy weapon teams or artillery.

- I'm not opposed to Hellhounds and Sentinels. I'll need them anyway if I ever want to make a brigade detachment.

- Forgeworld is acceptable in this army.

 

I do have a few questions about Forgeworld stuff, namely the artillery pieces:

- The Armageddon Basilisk vs the Basilisk. For about 17pts more, the Armageddon pattern has +1W and +1T. Are there any other differences or is that it? And would you say that's worth the extra points?

- Has anyone had any luck with Medusas, Bombards, and Griffons? I definitely want a Medusa, but the other two I haven't really seen in action before. The Colossus Bombard doesn't really seem worth its points in my opinion, especially when 2 Griffons for cheaper appear to be able to do the same amount of fire. Thoughts?

- Are the artillery carriages or platforms worth it? I know some of them are cheaper in points, but they're easier to kill. Thoughts?

- I know I said I'm not getting any Russes. However, I love the look of the Malcadors, and I would like to get at least one someday. Would you say they're worth it or no? (I know, not an artillery question, but I'm asking anyway)

Other thoughts and suggestions for building a Valhallan army?

[sairence]

Well...if spite is your reason for starting this, Valhalle seems to be by far the best option. :D

 

I've never used the Armaggeddon-variants, but Basilisks die pretty quickly when targetted by proper AT. It might help a bit against stuff like Autocannons, but I think you're better off just bringing more. Guard usually works best with quantity over quality, Valhalla most of all. If not on the tabletop than for sure in fluff.

[Trickstick]

Hmm, a Valhallan army with a no Russ restriction. You are basically looking at a mass Infantry/Artillery army, which is something that the Valhallans are not bad at.

 

First off, the doctrine. Halving casualties from morale is not going to be a bad thing, it let's you not worry about Commissars and such as much. If you combine this with their relic, Pietrov's 45, you are great at morale. You can still include banners and Commissars, they do give you a buff, but they may not be necessary. Give them a miss unless you start finding morale casualties being a problem. The other half of the doctrine is improved vehicle damage tables. This is what would make me avoid all of the FW artillery batteries, as they would get no benefit. You also save a few points, and can move in case of emergency. You would be able to keep up the fire for longer, without losing BS, which is nice.

 

The order is very nice if your enemy tries to keep your squads in combat to stop you shooting at them. Not only can you damage them, you may kill the last of your guys in combat, letting the rest of your army use better orders.

 

If I was planning this army, I would go for gunline infantry with some artillery support. You don't have to stay still of course, but you can be hard to shift if the enemy has to come to you.

 

For some of your specific questions:

 

- I would go for regular basilisks, but then I try to squeeze points. 17pts doesn't sound much, but adds up to a squad if you take 3 basilisks. It's a personal preference thing really. If you are going rule of cool, I would take Armageddon.

- Medusas are nice but are short range. You also can only get Armageddon patterns. Can't really go wrong with taking one, and they look nice. They would match the Armageddon Basilisks, which is great.

- Griffons are cheap and cheerful, bombards are expensive and deadly. Never used them. I get the feeling that the Griffon would suffer from "not being a mortar squad", which are so cheap that they outdo most units.

- Malcadors look great. They are also rubbish, unfortunately. Russes are better in almost every way, an much cheaper. A single Malcador as a centrepiece could be fun, but they are overpriced and under gunned. That Infernus looks great though...

 

If I had to make a suggestion, it would be to use the Vigilus Emperor's Wrath specialist detachment. It gives substantial upgrades to Basilisks, which it sounds like you may be taking a few of. You could go for an artillery regiment with a solid infantry screen, obliterating anything that gets in your way.

[Shamansky]

You'll hear lots of toxic words about your morale-proof infantry, beacuse valhallan relic works like commissars used to: no more than 1 model can be lost to morale. 
And why no Leman Russes? 

[Frostglaive]

I'll probably avoid the Malcador for a while then if it really is rubbish. Looks cool, so I may get one later down the road. But it's not necessary.

 

If having one less squad of infantry on the table means having 3 slightly more durable Basilisks, I think I'll take the Armageddon pattern ones then. I'll already have a bunch of infantry anyway, I can sacrifice a few. I'll definitely pick up at least one Medusa. Griffons and Colossi... I think what I'll do is run something as a count-as to try them out (some of the guys in my group are very lenient on that kind of thing, so I know they'll let me) before I decide to buy any.

 

I have a couple reasons for my No Russ Rule. First one is simply because I hate the model. Never liked the look to it. The second reason is more out of respect for my best friend who is a Guard player. We have 4 consistent ones in our group. Two who do very balanced lists, bit of everything in it. One does some weird character-heavy, assassin-heavy, monstrosity of stupidity. And my best friend tends to lean towards armoured company. That's his thing, and I know if I bought Russes, I'd buy a lot. I don't want to copy him.

[HallofStovokor]

If you're using artillery with Valhalla, bring a master of ordinance. He lets your indirect fire reroll 1s. Cyclops demolition vehicles are always fun. Without tanks, bring heavy weapons teams to attach to your infantry (I recommend autocannons for any squad expecting to move and lascannons for squads defending your indirect fire support. Your only heavy weapon squads should be made up of mortars that you keep hidden from sight. They play havoc with infantry moving up the board and mortars have the same wound and damage profile as a boltgun. Be warned you going to have variable rates of fire with mortars. I never get an average roll. I always get way above average shots with mortars or way below average. My experience is that I've gotten more shot rolls of 3 and 18 than 9 or 10, so don't count on them being consistent. They're just going to keep opponents tied to ruins for the +1 save. Remember that our best weapon with the guard isn't our big guns, it's how many shots we fire every turn. If you roll 150 lasgun shots per turn, you're going to kill something. I've killed Mortarian with nothing more than lasguns and a punisher.

[Halfpint100]

Looking forward to seeing pictures. The guys above have all your questions answered so thats sorted :) I would say russes are very Valhallan though, just something to think about. Take the relic bolt pistol (sooooo good) and try and protect him with an ogryn bodyguard if you can and surround him with conscripts and charge for the emperor! mix in optional priest for +1A and enjoy the tears.......

[FlamingDeth]

I'm going to say that you absolutely should bring a banner. Even if they're not useful for you they look cool which, as you say, is very important in this army.

[The Black Guard]

When the codex came out I looked at some of the valhallan combinations, one good one I saw potentially was the shooting into combat order with the Grenadiers stratagem. It also works for Vostroyans too, and its pretty cool to lob 10 frag grenades into combat! Good luck with your Anvil army - sounds exciting! Any ideas more specifically to which parts such as the heads? I'm guessing the Ushanka hat will probably be an auto-take for valhallans.

[Frostglaive]

I know that Valhallans DO use Russes. As far as I'm aware, most if not all of the generic regiments listed in the codex use everything listed in the datasheets, or darn close. But for my particular regiment, I do not want to use them.

 

There will be banners. There will be conscripts. There will be crazy priests and commissars with said conscripts. There will be an angry Russian looking dude with the relic pistol screaming "Send in the next wave!" leading the army. Why? Because it looks awesome!

 

Right now the bits I'm planning on using from Anvil are the Wintercoat torsos, long greatcoat legs, and obviously the ushanka hats. Now this here is where I'm debating with myself. I could stick with typical Valhallans and make them look as close as possible with these bits. Or... I go a bit more unique and use the Ushanka Visor heads instead, as well as the armoured arms instead of fatigue arms. The armoured arms could at that point tie this regiment in with my AdMech forces, say they're allies and the guard are just better equipped because of it. The Visor heads... they just look too cool not to use in my opinion. Maybe I'll mix them up: regular ushankas, gasmasks, and visors all together. Because what else I want to do is give them the Bergen and haversack packs as well. Valhallans are all supposed to be able to carry their own equipment. So why not show that?

I think the conscripts are what I'm really going to have fun building. With all the options Anvil has, I'm going to just pick out a bunch of different bits to use. Some of them may have the issued greatcoats or ushankas. Some of them may just have a hoodie, pants and a watch cap. Some of them may have a backpack full of supplies, others may just have a gun and no ammo. I want them to look like some commissars and recruiters just grabbed people off the street, handed them a lasgun and said go die for the Emperor or die trying.

[robofish7591]

You could also use the armored arms and visor ushankas on veterans to make them stand out more.

[Canadian_F_H]

Die for the emperor or die trying!

 

I don't condone trolling persay. But I can't stand unwarrented hate brewing in a community. The emperor's beloved infantrymen deserve respect!

[GuardDaddy]

Sounds absolutely awesome. I run infantry only just because I think its cool!

 

Might want to consider the cawdor necromunda gang as conscript models - religious fanatics throwing themselves onto the enemy - look great as a blob and all the necromunda sculpts really nice.

 

Please post pics as project moves forwards

[HallofStovokor]

Did for the emperor or die trying!

 

I don't condone trolling persay. But I can't stand unwarrented hate brewing in a community. The emperor's beloved infantrymen deserve respect!

I agree, but mono-guard isn't what angers most people. It's the loyal 32 that brings hatred towards the guard. Everyone knows that imperial guard is good in 8th, but they're not unfair. They're good against everything, but other armies are better at specific tasks. The other reason I don't think the hate is fair, is that most guard players don't play them because they're good, they play them because they love the guard. I will play the guard even if they suck in the next edition.

[Frostglaive]

The issue as a whole is aimed at the Loyal 32, I'll agree. However, in my local meta, the toxic players I mentioned hate the Guard as a whole, not just the Loyal 32. Part of their issue is from that, part of it is they are completely incompetent at this game, have some serious issues, or are just plain doomsayers. The reason I'm doing this to "troll" them also is because of my best friend in that group. Because those toxic players hate Guard so much, the only army that my friend owns, it comes across as them hating him too. While it may not be intentional in some cases, it's hurting my friend and pissing me off. Hence the spite coming into play.

 

That being said, I do also just want to play Guard again. I had an army back in 5th and 7th and I loved them dearly. I miss running Guard.

[GuardDaddy]

Artel Miniatures have some lovely models you could put in as charachters, and even a valhallan style squad. 

https://artelw.com/#w--ul-id-570-2/28mm-scale-miniatures/c/27134181/offset=32&sort=normal--w

[Trickstick]

5th Guard was such fun. Outflanking powerblobs and respawning conscripts were hilarious.

 

What are your plans for capturing objectives? You could be a great gunline, but that doesn't help win games if you can't claim objectives. I do like a good "highland charge" myself, although it is not for everyone.

[Shamansky]

Artel Miniatures have some lovely models you could put in as charachters, and even a valhallan style squad. 

https://artelw.com/#w--ul-id-570-2/28mm-scale-miniatures/c/27134181/offset=32&sort=normal--w

They used to produce that "Heroic Comissar" miniature which i believe was banned by filthy lawyers. Only "Officer's Aide" is available now. Having those two with Valhallan regiment would be awesome.

[Frostglaive]

Haven't really thought yet about how I'm going to grab objectives. It's looking like the "highland charge" may actually be my best bet if I run things the way I'm initially thinking. I could always mechanize my Vet Squads, throw them in some Chimeras and send them after obj. Try to hold out until actual Infantry Squads show up to secure them. Or even have a few cheap squads of Scions in deep strike, drop them in last minute for end-game ObSec (or quick and easy Maelstrom points). We'll see I guess.

 

I did see the Artel minis, and I absolutely love them. Sucks they don't sell the "heroic commissar" **cough** Cain **cough**. But I'll be more than happy to pick up that wonderful Officer's Aide. He looks like he serves a great cup of tea after all.

 

Pay day was today, so I'll order the first batch of infantry from Anvil after work today.

[duz_]

I bought this one recently she's a pretty awesome sculpt!

 

https://artelw.com/shop#!/28mm-scale-miniatures/c/27134181/offset=0&sort=normalw--ul-id-55-3/Commissar-Raivel-Heart-of-Darkness-edition/p/111863093/category=27134181--w

[Canadian_F_H]

Duz_

 

That's awesome! Comissar or officer?

 

In a visually "cadian" army, coats are rare. But occasionally on officers. So could go either way... Perhaps the lack of classic epaulets leans towards officer over commissar... Either way. She is on my list! Thank you so much!

[duz_]

She's going to be (most likely) Lord Commissar with relic power sword :)
Failing that just a regular Commissar, I already have some VM "Mordian" Female officers, but I don't won't to digress too much here ;) 

[Doof]

If you are going the forgeworld route for Armageddon Basilisks, You should go for the Solar Auxilia Basilisk instead. It uses a Leman Russ Chasis instead of the chimera. Its actually cheaper than a Armageddon basilisk, and it is also a dual kit which comes with Medusa cannon as well. They also have a deal for 3.

[Trickstick]

If you are going the forgeworld route for Armageddon Basilisks, You should go for the Solar Auxilia Basilisk instead. It uses a Leman Russ Chasis instead of the chimera. Its actually cheaper than a Armageddon basilisk, and it is also a dual kit which comes with Medusa cannon as well. They also have a deal for 3.

 

It may also be worth bearing in mind that the Armageddon pattern it is very old by now. FW has been known to have quality problems as the moulds age. I don't know about these particular models, but it could factor into the decision.

[GrFlur]

Hi there guys

 

I'm very ignorant about Imperial Guard stuff but I want to put together a Full Batallion Full equiped of Valhalans (I also think on getting 3 Leman Russ ... wolf player fluff and lov... er.. I mean lore ...)

 

So what and how much sould I get?

 

From GW and FW I don't see Valhalans at all 

 

From Artel I liked:

 

- Einherjar`s Kamrades Bundle because it includes 10 guys and  Colonel Regina Major Brokk

- Jack "Captain Blood" Meinhardt

- Commissar Raivel - Heart of Darkness edition

 

 

From Anvil ... I'm lost some help needed here

 

Hints, guidance and advices are welcome!