Devastator Loadouts - Focused vs Varied

[Berzul]

Hey guys.

 

As part of the project I am currently on, which is about reforging my army into a new scheme, a new lore, and into a Codex Compliant Chapter Structure, I have been forced to think about my squad compositions a lot.

 

One of the main things I have started to consider is, how should Devastator Squads be armed. Both from a lore and from an in-game mechanical stand points. Specifically since, once you add squad markings to a heavy weapon marine, it becomes a bit fluff-breaking to just put that guy in another squad to repurpose or reshape the squads compositions.

 

In my time playing the game, and specially since 8th and the appearance of Weapons from the Dark Age, my go-to composition for a Devastator Squad has been 10-man with 4 plasma cannons. Sometimes with a Lieutenant for wound rerolls, and sometimes I may even attach a Company Ancient and Apothecary to create a ovecharge-shoot-explode-shoot-die-revive-shoot cycle for the squad.

 

This follows the logic of trying to get the most out of the stratagem. Should a squad have the potential of firing 4 or even 5 plasma cannon shots with increased damage, why not go for it.

 

But, at the same time, with split fire being the rule in this edition, as opposed with the previous one, and with many stratagems affecting these heavy weapons (mainly Helfire Shells and Flakk Missiles, as well as Weapons from the Dark Age), one could make the point of bringing squads that have a more varied set up. Specially since doubling on said squad (that is, bringing 2 or 3 devastator squads with varied loadouts) means that a form of redundancy that forces the enemy to waste more shots to reduce your overall combat effectiveness.

 

So, with all that said, I have never actually tried a squad of devastators where everyone has a different heavy weapon. I always bring either 4 missile launchers, or 4 plasma cannons.

 

I have been wondering, how have you guys fared with your Devastator Squads so far into this edition?

 

I am thinking of taking this opportunity in reforging my chapter, to set my devastator squads at 1 heavy bolter, 1 missile launcher, 1 lascannon and 1 plasma cannon, in each of the two squads in my main battle company.

 

This, on the logic that, as explained before, for your combat effectiveness to go all the way down, your opponent would have to really focus on taking out both squads, due to the redundancy. Also meaning that, depending on the targets available, you have a little bit of everything to shoot, (anti GEQ, anti MEQ, and anti Armor), and the possibility of employing both Helfire Shells and Flakk MIssiles through either of the squads, even splitting said stratagems one per squad to make the best possible use of the Signums and the Armorium Cherubs.

 

With the spirit of inviting some debate, what would be your particular take to this approach?

 

Are focused devastator squads better or worse, overall, in your in game experience, than varied devastator squads?

[RayJ]

This is the first edition where each gun can easily pick a separate target, making a mixed load out much better than the past.

 

However, if you're not buying extra bodies for the unit, I think staying focused is preferred. Only for the reason that the unit will have a clear role throughout the game.

 

You've already hit on the largest benefit of a varied unit: stratagems, cherub, and Signum. It's a significant benefit sometimes, so worth considering. In fact, if you're running multiple devastator squads, splitting missiles and heavy bolter between the units for mid or late game redundancy can pay off.

 

I don't think every model having a different gun is very good, but one or two varied for stratagem sake makes sense for sure.

[Stormxlr]

Just wanted to add that Rapier Quad Heavy Bolter for 75 points is extremely good point per shot investment and is in my opinion the best way to bring heavy bolters.

 

I just take 3 lascannons and 1 spare body and a sgt with cherub around 135 pts iirc seems like the best way to take anti tank /anti heavy if i can i take two such units. current classic of Azrael with Plasma Incinerators for everything else is just too efficient.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

I think it really depends on the weapon. 

 

As you've said, plasma cannon devs get the most efficient benefit from WOTDA by being all together in a squad. So I would say it makes sense to put them all together. Conversely, hellfire shells or flak missiles only benefits one guy at a time, so it makes sense to split your heavy bolter and missile launchers across multiple squads (when I've done it, I've run two squads of 2x lascannon, 1x HB, 1x ML). 

 

Of course, it also depends on the rest of your army. I like running big squads of black knights, who are a more reliable candidate for WOTDA, so my plasma cannon devastators tend not to get the stratagem very often. Similarly, if you give scouts or tactical marines heavy bolters or missile launchers, they might be able to use the relevant stratagems instead, in which case grouping your devastators would just give you some more redundancy.

 

tl;dr - in my opinion, put your plasmas in the same squad, and split your devastators and heavy bolters up, but YMMV

[FlamingDeth]

I have historically in my primary battle company had one Dev squad with three heavy bolters and a plasma cannon and the other with three missile launchers and a lascannon. The theory goes that the weapons all share a purpose and have one fancier weapon with some extra punch, which makes sense to me from a practical in universe organizational standpoint and at least in previous editions made sense from a gameplay standpoint.

[Skorp]

Not very knowledgeable from a lore standpoint. Very curious to hear more about what would be codex compliant for weapons.

 

As far as squad composition most of it has been said, but want to organize the main points.

 

1. Extra marines for extra wounds are a must with 4 heavy weapons in a squad.

 

2. If youre using plasma with WotDA I wouldnt split it up for best strategem mileage. WotDA effects the unit, flak and bolter strats effect a model.

 

3. Splitting up heavy bolter and missile launchers is a good idea for a smaller squad. Key is armorium cherub with dev squad for double shot with the strategems. Scout squads sacrifice the double shot without the cherub, but they are cheaper.

 

Personally I dont like the idea of a squad with one HB and one Missile Launcher, only one is going to get to use the cherub.

 

My go to are:

 

10x marines, 4x lascannon, cherub

10x marines, 4x missiles, cherub

 

5x marines, HB, cherub

5x marines, ML, cherub

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I prefered focused but since now they can split fire, having a different type of weapon can bring some interesting load outs but I wouldn't stray too much out of the main reason the devs are there for.

For example, if you have a anti infantry dev squad, then you can mix plasma cannons and heavy bolters

If you are going anti tank you can mix some missiles with lascannons for anti infantry.

Still im advocate in specializing instead of mixing.

[Berzul]

I am in a series of small scale games, in the context of a small narrative campaign. I'll use them as a chance to experiment on loadouts.

 

Yesterday I had a 500pts fight against Tyranids. Devastators, a Dreadnought and some close combat veterans, versus 30 genestealers and a broodlord.

 

I played my classic 4x Plasma Cannons, to great effect.

 

Next match I'll go with 1 Plasma Cannon, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Heavy Bolter, and 1 Lascannon, to see how it behaves.

[cernunnos]

I prefer generalists over specialists. I like units that can switch roles depending on how the game evolves. That said I still tend to pick one heavy weapon type per dev squad, just lean towards those that can work against varied targets. So grav, plasma or missile launchers.

 

Plasma has worked pretty well for me, especially with the startagem, although whether you have other units in mind for WotDA may affect that judgement. Grav is my favourite, but they need deploying and using aggressively and will not be for everybody.

 

I am not aware of any background about dev weapon choices. Historically I think gw have photographed squads with a diverse mix, but I am sure that is more about showcasing models. I would have thought a pragmatic chapter like the dark Angels would just use whatever suited their expected targets.

[Grand Master Raziel]

My opinion is that focused is better than generalist. While it's true that all weapons in the squad can be fired at the most optimal targets, mixing them dilutes the effectiveness of stratagems like Weapons of the Dark Age. Also, keeping them focused is better if you happen to wind up having an opportunity to use Auspex Scan, because you can choose the squad with the best weapons to engage the target that way, as opposed to having to make do with a mixed batch.

Also, there's another virtue to keeping all the same weapons in each squad - ease of play. If your squad has all the same kind of weapon, then you can roll dice for them in batches, whereas squads with a variety of weapons need each weapon fired and resolved separately.

Also, I think it's a waste of a heavy weapon slot to have heavy bolters in a Dev squad. Likely you're taking Scouts anyway, so just have a Scout Squad or two carry them. Scouts can take missile launchers too, so they can have the weapons to use with the Hellfire Shells and Flakk Missile strats. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with missile launcher Devs. They do have the virtue of versatility. If you're looking for a versatile squad, all missile launchers is probably a lot better than a mixed-weapon squad.

[BlackTriton]

Heavy bolter dev benefit of both the sergent signum and the cherub, making the hellfire stratagem hit on BS+1 and fire it twice for maximum efficiency.

 

I like the mix unit of 1 Heavy bolter, 1 Missile launcher and 2 Lascanon.

It ensure every squad can use the best stratagem for the situation and have the quality shot you need.

 

For DA, 3 plasma canon + either HB or ML, allowing to get the max out of your command point and providing a back up unit for WotDA.

[Grand Master Raziel]

BlackTriton, I see the virtue of that loadout, but the problem with it is you're pretty much committing to constantly spending CP for it to be worthwhile. It also misses out on the virtue of ease of play.

[BlackTriton]

Commiting to spending the CP is the point, they are some of the best stratagem Space marine have availlable and I want to use it every turn, this is the best way to do so.

Ease of play is good, but often sacrificed on the altar of min max.

 

Having las canon over multiple squads has a unexpected advantage. The weapon is so swigny, 2 hit might open a rhino, where other time 4 will just scratch it.

If they are spread out, you can commit only a few at a time and see how it goes before commiting more.