Unleash the Horde?

[Stofficus]

Hey everyone,

 

I've taken it upon myself to finally build my, frankly ludicrous, collection of Heresy-era marines sitting in backlog. Chaos remains my favourite way to emulate my Legion until FW sorts itself out, but I'm wondering what might be the best way to run a giant horde of power armoured marines? 

I can build these guys as basically anything, with more than enough bits to represent everything but jump troops en masse. Right now I'm leaning towards using Alpha Legion for some added survivability, with the core of the force being a basic battalion of combi-plas + plasma gun MSU squads to fill out a battalion, and then throw in a vanguard of Noise Marines (because they're awesome), but aside from some Havocs or a big blob of Khorne Berserkers, I'm not sure what I would add to this base that would be both a) fun, and b) not be laughably ineffective. 

I know I'm hardly going an optimal route right now, but what have been your, if any, secrets to success with a marine foot horde? 

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Black Legion does Marine hordes best due to their stratagem Let The Galaxy Burn, Abaddon's fearless aura to prevent serious morale casualties, and their trait Black Crusaders that buffs their leadership and enables them to use Rapid Fire weapons as Assault.

[Trevak Dal]

I still think it's frustrating that we have to abide Guillimans codex and only have up to 3 upgrades per unit of 10+.

 

It should be if you have the points and want 20 heavybolters you should get it done (and put that unit in the center of the table with Abaddon behind them and say "come at me bro")

[Panzer]

That would at least be a great way to invalidate Havocs. 

[Trevak Dal]

And?

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I always thought Havocs were a dumb unit in concept because Heretic Astartes take what equipment they can find and don't operate on the same delineations the Codex Astartes demands therefore we shouldn't have equivalents between Tactical Marines and Chaos Space Marines, Terminators and Chaos Terminators, Devastators and Havocs, etc because we operate just so differently. That's one of the problems I have with the CSM codex is that in some ways we are very different, which is good, but in others we are too similar which is a disingenuous representation of the lore.

[Panzer]

To be fair not every loyalist chapter operates as the Codex Astartes demands either. Detachments and FOC sections are just artificial concepts out-universe that are supposed to help us build more balanced lists.

In-universe Codex Astartes sorts Marines into Battleline, Veteran, Close Support, Fire Support and Command which can be loosely translated into Troops, Elite, Fast Attack, Heavy Support and HQ, but not always since there are lots of units in the Elite section that aren't necessarily Veterans and vehicles are completely separate from those battlefield roles.

So In-universe Havocs and regular Chaos Marines are probably the exact same guys anyway. No point in thinking too hard about it. ^^

[Sonoftherubric21]

Marine foot hordes are either Iron Warriors or Black Legion due to having the Fearless Auras. 

Abbadon for Black Legion and Iron Warriors warlord trait which also grants fearless. 

Those are two of the most effective ways for Chaos to do so. I run something vaguely similar with my Pre-heresy 1k sons used as Iron Warriors due to that and ignoring cover shots and lots of heavy weapons. A horde of power armor can be hard to deal with as a unit of 10 is easy to kill.....but 70-100 space marines?  maybe more? that can't run due to morale? that becomes a nightmare for most players. 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Marine foot hordes are either Iron Warriors or Black Legion due to having the Fearless Auras. 

 

Abbadon for Black Legion and Iron Warriors warlord trait which also grants fearless. 

 

Those are two of the most effective ways for Chaos to do so. I run something vaguely similar with my Pre-heresy 1k sons used as Iron Warriors due to that and ignoring cover shots and lots of heavy weapons. A horde of power armor can be hard to deal with as a unit of 10 is easy to kill.....but 70-100 space marines?  maybe more? that can't run due to morale? that becomes a nightmare for most players. 

Don't forget Iron Without/Iron Within for 6+ wound ignore on 20 guys for a whole phase, combo'ed with Miasma of Pestilence. Then use Delightful Agonies on a 2nd 20 guys, then maybe have a third block go Tzeentch with a 5++ from Weaver.

 

You can really get the whole Hammer of Olympia vibe going if you split up your gods a bit and play up the cynical, fickle side of their being Undivided.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

Also, an Alpha Legion 20 man squad of Chaos Space Marines with the Mark of Nurgle can be annoying as hell for your opponent if you have a Nurglite Sorcerer cast Miasma of Pestilence on them. Stick the squad in cover and you have a squad with a 2+ save that is -2 to hit.

[Closet Skeleton]

So In-universe Havocs and regular Chaos Marines are probably the exact same guys anyway. No point in thinking too hard about it. ^^

 

Not according to the actual background for havocs which is that they fuse with their weapons over time so can't change into other battlefield roles, just like Raptors can't take their jump packs off.

 

Chaos space marines are even more specialized than regular marines if you read the codex. They look like over the top villains because the warp literally turns its inhabitants into caricatured versions of themselves over time.

 

Its the Codex Astartes that keeps loyalist marines flexible, not Chaos' lack of the codex that should make them be able to take anything.

 

Chaos have chosen who can take just about anything, regular chaos marines can't because in a chaos warband resources are scarce and the strong get the best stuff.

[Kraken]

A simple way to differentiate CSM squad from Havocs would be to give only access to Special weapons to the former while the latter get Special + Heavy.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

So In-universe Havocs and regular Chaos Marines are probably the exact same guys anyway. No point in thinking too hard about it. ^^

Not according to the actual background for havocs which is that they fuse with their weapons over time so can't change into other battlefield roles, just like Raptors can't take their jump packs off.

 

Chaos space marines are even more specialized than regular marines if you read the codex. They look like over the top villains because the warp literally turns its inhabitants into caricatured versions of themselves over time.

 

Its the Codex Astartes that keeps loyalist marines flexible, not Chaos' lack of the codex that should make them be able to take anything.

 

Chaos have chosen who can take just about anything, regular chaos marines can't because in a chaos warband resources are scarce and the strong get the best stuff.

Havocs are also separate sub-cults in certain Legions, like the World Eaters who have the Teeth of Khorne, or the Iron Warriors who are very proud of the fact that their support squads were the first to be called "Havocs" and have obsessive rituals regarding their weapons, kill counts, etc.

[Stofficus]

So I got to try out my horde for the first time today, so I felt it would be worthwhile to share my experience: 

 

My list was using Alpha Legion (for that sexy -1 to hit). 

 

3x 5 man Plas, Combi-plas CSM squads

3x 10 man Noise marine squads, decked out fully

1x 6 man AC havoc squad

1x 6 man HB havoc squad

1x 5 man Melta havoc squad

10x Khorne Berserkers (6 axe+Chainsword, 3x BP + chainsword)
Jump lord w/ murder sword

jump sorc w/ death hex + diabolic strength

foot lord, naked

foot sorc, prescience + delightful agonies

exalted champ w/ black mace

 

Played against a Space Wolf, so not exactly the most dangerous codex in existence. 

 

6x thunder wolves, TH+SS

Wolf lord w/ frost axe

Relic Sicarian Punisher

LR Crusader (11x blood claws, Lukas, Arjac)

5 man Intercessor squad

10 man Grey Hunters, double plas, combi-plas

Ulfric

Battle Leader w/ power fist + combi-plas

3x aggressors (bolt + fragstorm)

 

Pretty character heavy army, and fairly aggressive. I deployed cautiously, was able to go first but didn't do much but take a handful of wounds off the LR with my blastmasters and autocannons. 

 

As the SW got closer, the bulk of my army was able to come to bear, with the LR and all its contents killed having only taken out a few of my marines with hurricane bolter shots. By the end of the 2nd turn, the sicaran was down a bracket, and only the thunderwolves remained within threat range. 

 

The battle was pretty one sided at this point, so I opted to charge my jump characters and 'zerkers into the Thunderwolves to get some proper melee in, but failed to get Death Hex off. The wolf lord died horribly to the murder sword (as is tradition) but the opponent expectedly interrupted to hit the 'zerkers with the wolves. The marines riding them whiffed, but the giant puppers themselves took out all but one 'zerker. 

 

I withdrew from combat, honour being satisfied, and wiped out everything but the Grey Hunters at the start of turn 4. The opponent failed to draw any maelstrom cards which he could go after with the hunters (as we were fairly close in VP all things considered, owing to my less than optimal combat choices), and failed, thus conceding. 

I didn't end up losing any models to morale losses, despite having 4 10 man units worth shooting at, so for the time being the extra resilience of Alpha Legion is what I'll stick with, as the opponent despite having some alright anti-infantry shooting (aggressors, sicaran, crusader, intercessors) he really didn't do much damage due to that -1, which is especially brutal when using assault weapons or heavies after moving, reducing marine shooting to 5+. 

I shall continue to experiment and report my findings on the glory of the Marine horde. 

[Trevak Dal]

 

 

So In-universe Havocs and regular Chaos Marines are probably the exact same guys anyway. No point in thinking too hard about it. ^^

Not according to the actual background for havocs which is that they fuse with their weapons over time so can't change into other battlefield roles, just like Raptors can't take their jump packs off.

 

Chaos space marines are even more specialized than regular marines if you read the codex. They look like over the top villains because the warp literally turns its inhabitants into caricatured versions of themselves over time.

 

Its the Codex Astartes that keeps loyalist marines flexible, not Chaos' lack of the codex that should make them be able to take anything.

 

Chaos have chosen who can take just about anything, regular chaos marines can't because in a chaos warband resources are scarce and the strong get the best stuff.

 

You know, that's cool and all that, but for us playing the game with the rules presented...havocks are spikey devestators.

 

Raptors are different from assault marines in that they can properly carry all special weapons and cannot take off their jump packs, but the regular CSM can do what tacticals should be able to do and drop their bolters for bolt pistol and chainsword (really we should be able to go like our furry chaos lite friends and go Bolter/bolt pistol and chainsword, but I guess that's too similar to the bearded yiffers so we can't have that, I mean they have better chosen than us, better possessed than us AND they can Ally with other imperial armies)

 

Needs to be a straight hard in the paint tournament where you can freely ally any army with each other, :cuss narrative and TRULY let chaos reign as Tau side with Tyranids see how hard the tryhards push it.