Wyvern's: Worth it in a Mechanized List?

[Rommel44]

Pretty simple question for you guys. Currently I run a Mechanized Infantry list that utilizes Chimera's, LRBT's, Hellhounds, and Sentinels atm. While they have been effective in most games, I am debating if Wyvern's would be a good option/addition as while I am aware that they are extremely effective in 8th Edition, I am not sure if they are worth utilizing in a Mechanized Infantry Army. Your thoughts

[HallofStovokor]

If you're going artillery, wyvern's a the wrong choice. They cost 103 points with the hull heavy bolter. For that price, you can buy 3 mortar squads and 2 heavy stubbers for your tanks. This will get you almost double the amount of wounds for the same price. Mortar squads have even better advantages than their price. They're infantry models, so your company commander can give them orders. A cadian mortar squad being given take aim, reroll all failed hits. If that officer has laurels, you have a 50% chance of also ordering them again. Give that same squad bring em down and you now have a squad of mortars rerolling all failed hits and 1s to wound. For a mere 5 points more than a wyvern, you can get a basilisk. They're awesome and are good against everything (including knights).

[Rommel44]

If you're going artillery, wyvern's a the wrong choice. They cost 103 points with the hull heavy bolter. For that price, you can buy 3 mortar squads and 2 heavy stubbers for your tanks. This will get you almost double the amount of wounds for the same price. Mortar squads have even better advantages than their price. They're infantry models, so your company commander can give them orders. A cadian mortar squad being given take aim, reroll all failed hits. If that officer has laurels, you have a 50% chance of also ordering them again. Give that same squad bring em down and you now have a squad of mortars rerolling all failed hits and 1s to wound. For a mere 5 points more than a wyvern, you can get a basilisk. They're awesome and are good against everything (including knights).

Was considering Mortar Hvy. Weapon teams as a cheap alternative to the Wyrvens to provide some fire-support. Also have considered the Quad-Guns and Heavy Mortars from FW as well.

[BIG ROB OF DEATH]

I like mech armies, having soured on infantry-heavy armies, and include a wyvern in my go-to list. I like fewer units, as there is an advantage that way when rolling to go first, and its toughness of 6 is much better than mortar squads with toughness 3. With the heavy bolter and maybe a heavy stubber and H-K missile, its a decent unit and I prefer it to a hellhound, especially since it can hide behind terrain and still shell the enemy, whereas the hellhound always has to be out in the open the get the greatest value out of it.  It is my preferred choice to take out larger, lower-value horde units, especially with the re-rolling of failed wounds, which saves the LRBTs from having to shoot as them, so they can concentrate on more valuable targets. Disclaimer: I no longer try to engineer a crafty, killer, take-on-all-opponents list, having come to realize I am not very good at such creations, and sort of realizing there isn't such a list anyway. I'll stick with my mech army, and a wyvern is fairly useful, and more so if there is lots of terrain. All the best!

[Gothical]

In an all-Mech army I would prefer the Wyvern over Mortar HWS to fit with the theme and to not give enemy DS/hunter units easy killpoints - HWS are very squishy without reasonable target saturation from other infantry units.

 

However, I would consider the Basilisk or Manticore over the Wyvern. Now the latter has dropped in points it goes back to being a serious threat to large targets with invulnerable saves (Castellans, Primarchs) especially if Cadian with Doctrine and Stratagem active or Catachan. Having the extra pip of Toughness is helpful in a Mechanised army too as it makes target priority a lot harder. The Basilisk Squadron is excellent against a variety of targets and benefits from the new Vigilus formation/MoO/Aerial Spotter etc.

 

The Wyvern is still good, I just wonder if you really need more anti-infantry firepower given the Chimeras, their contents, the Hellhounds and the Russes, whereas the anti-big-things punch of Manticores and/or Basilisks could be a lot more helpful whilst still bringing the indirect fire capability.

[bigmic66]

I run both. 6 mortars in the brigade inf squads, 9 in heavy support and 2 wyrverns. Let's me control the infantry on the board.

[Rommel44]

I run both. 6 mortars in the brigade inf squads, 9 in heavy support and 2 wyrverns. Let's me control the infantry on the board.

How would you say the mortar squads performed compared to the Wyrvens?

[HallofStovokor]

I didn't want to give you the impression that I think wyverns are hot garbage, they're not. I was thinking about points costs and for their points mortars are better. If you want an entirely mechanized list and don't want to spend resources to protect a mortar squad, then the wyvern is most certainly the best tool. There's an answer to using mortar squads, but that requires super-heavys like the stormlord or banehammer to do. And I don't think that you would like the idea of removing LRBTs to put a super-heavy tank into your list. I tend to think of those as apocalypse game vehicles.

[Rommel44]

I didn't want to give you the impression that I think wyverns are hot garbage, they're not. I was thinking about points costs and for their points mortars are better. If you want an entirely mechanized list and don't want to spend resources to protect a mortar squad, then the wyvern is most certainly the best tool. There's an answer to using mortar squads, but that requires super-heavys like the stormlord or banehammer to do. And I don't think that you would like the idea of removing LRBTs to put a super-heavy tank into your list. I tend to think of those as apocalypse game vehicles.

Point costs are one reason why I'm still debating this. Basically, 3x Hvy. Weapon Squads for a total of 9x Mortar Teams is cheaper then a single Wyvern with not much difference in the weapons profile. And while I am a Mechanized Infantry force, not going to deny that being able to fire upon units without needing LOS is pretty boss.