Are BL writers forced to use copyrighted names?

[A D-B]

Are the writers of the Black Library forced to change the words/names to fit with GW's copyright obssession?

 

 

Does every novel they write have to be compliant, writing Drukhari instead of Dark Eldar?

 

These are two different, and badly-phrased, questions - making them difficult to answer. 

[Gederas]

Are the writers of the Black Library forced to change the words/names to fit with GW's copyright obssession?

 

Does every novel they write have to be compliant, writing Drukhari instead of Dark Eldar?

These are two different, and badly-phrased, questions - making them difficult to answer.

I believe Moonreaper is basically asking if Black Library writers HAVE TO use the copyrighted names in their novels. Like the (frankly ridiculous) Sloppity Bilepiper and Spoilpox Scrivener in a Nurgle-centric story, for example.

 

They then followed it up by using an example, with Drukhari instead of Dark Eldar.

 

 

Basically, I think they're asking if Games Workshop tells writers "NO! YOU MUST USE THESE NAMES IN YOUR NOVELS!" Which, if your comments I've seen elsewhere are any indication, doesn't seem to be the case?

[Indefragable]

To the OP:
 
I would hazard a guess of "absolutely." Any entity has a certain set of branding guidelines (like copy logo's must always be this size/shape/location on a document) to maintain continuity. Works of fiction, especially ones in franchises--and whether we like it or not--have similar guidelines in their own way. I imagine how, when, and where things are used is often up to the skill of the author as well as how much of a stick up the rigorous corporate indoctrination the overseers have.
 

From what I've noticed with Astra Militarum/Imperial Guard, is that the better books will use AM as their formal designation, but they will still colloquially refer to themselves as "the imperial guard".

 

High gothic always strikes me as upper class or Roman Empire sounding.

All lowly guardsman are generally cockney sounding (in my head

 
Single reply to both of the above:
 
That's half the appeal of the Guard. Yes, THE GUARD, not the Astra Milita-whatnow or whatever those High Riders want you to call it. That inherent anti-authoritarian streak to every grunt that has existed since time immortal. A longtime player at my club (recently moved away) plays Guard and carries his models in his government issued pack that he used to jump out of planes with. Much of the appeal for him was that the character of the Guard faction was that Beetle Bailey, Stripes, Duffel Blog, etc... take on what it's actually like to be in the military. He loved lasguns...specifically for how -y they were. "Definitely made by the lowest bidder."
 
The appeal of other factions comes from other sources (Knights in SPAAAAAACE; Giant killer insects in SPAAAAACE, et al), but the Guard's appeal has a certain timeless aspect to it that works both in-and-out of universe. May it never lose that appeal.
 

Yes.

It's been going on since the Chapterhouse case. One of the most awkward ones is in Ahriman: Exile when some "Chaos space marine warp talons" emerge through a portal.

 
Yea, it's any moment now that a character will stop in the middle of a battle and say:
 
"Gee, aren't you an Adeptus Astartes Inceptor that drops from orbit in a Meteoric Descent?"
"Yes, I am. And here are my Plasma Exterminator weapons. You know, I can get between 1 and 3 shots from each of these every time I fire!"
"Wow, that sure is useful! Especially if you're standing near an Adeptes Astartes Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor!"
 
+++++++++
 
BL is ultimately tie-in fiction. Which means it ties into other things. Other things they are trying to sell. Part of the compact between we the consumers and the company that spits this stuff out is that we willfully pretend not to notice that and the company pretends that everything stands on its own and is not all just one giant marketing ploy. Results vary. Sometimes its much harder to remember notice that and its glorious. Sometimes its gratingly obvious and obnoxious.
 
That is really nowhere near as cynical as it might come off, it's the truth. I loved the GI Joe cartoon as a kid. Did they make the cartoon just for the heck of it? No, they wanted to sell the GI Joe toys. Doesn't mean they both can't be good.

[carlisimo]

I just wish they hadn’t renamed the Imperial Guard the “stars of the soldiers” in a real-world language.

 

I know Latin isn’t High Gothic, but it’s a language some of us can sorta read and we can’t unsee things like that.

 

And the new Eldar names would sound more properly alien if they didn’t end with -i, since so many Latin/High Gothic plurals do.

[Tyriks]

I just wish they hadn’t renamed the Imperial Guard the “star of the soldiers” in a real-world language.

I know Latin isn’t High Gothic, but it’s a language some of us can sorta read and we can’t unsee things like that.

And the new Eldar names would sound more properly alien if they didn’t end with -i, since so many Latin/High Gothic plurals do.

At least it's not as bad as Space Marines being named after a fertility goddess...

[Rob P]

Different people find different things jarring.

 

There has to be a balance between trying to establish and in-world vernacular whilst still conveying things in a way to the reader that's simple. And that's without the issue of IP protection,

 

I've been following 40k for so long that things like Hive Tyrant, Space Wolf, Monkeigh, Nobz, devastor squad etc conjure up the image of the thing. If I thought too much about the actual words (or had not experience of the setting) I would think that these things were daft sounding. I know that some people still feel that way about Space Wolves (e.g. Wolf McFangbite) or Salamanders (e.g. Firey Drakeborn). And who would forget the 'wet leopard growl' which is far less prominent than the forums suggest.

 

As I say, there is a balance to be had. You don't want things sounding too explicit to the reader whilst still conveying what it is. Tyranids is a good example here. I like that a lot of the newer stuff has a more technical sounding name, but in-universe I wouldn't always expect the protagonist to know the real name. At the same time, I don't want a page of description to hammer home what it is.

 

Eldar is another good example of something that can be approached in different ways. I don't want descriptive 'lithe xenos', but maybe aeldari isn't a word you would expect to hear outside of the race itself and deathwatch.

 

The writer has to come to a compromise with telling the story and authenticity. I don't want a technically correct book which flows poorly to meet perfection in authenticity.

 

 

Yea, it's any moment now that a character will stop in the middle of a battle and say:

 

"Gee, aren't you an Adeptus Astartes Inceptor that drops from orbit in a Meteoric Descent?"

"Yes, I am. And here are my Plasma Exterminator weapons. You know, I can get between 1 and 3 shots from each of these every time I fire!"

"Wow, that sure is useful! Especially if you're standing near an Adeptes Astartes Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor!"

 

I can't say i've actually seen that. I have read a few novels where the author seems to whip out every unit in the army book as if it's a sale show, but even then, i've not felt that it's detracted greatly from the story. I'd much prefer that than a long boring battle scene, which some editors/writers seem to think is the point of the books. A good example of 'whipping out the units' was Nick Kyme's Grimblades. It was a decent book, but boy did we see nearly every Orc and Goblin unit!

 

Imperial Guard to Astra Militarum does not bother me in the slightest. I doubt many in-universe grunts are calling it the AM and, even if they are, it's not likely to upset the reading experience.

 

One thing that can cause problems with stories was sort of mentioned above, and that's nurgle characters, I vaguely remember an AOS story where a character turned to nurgle and it was no surprise because he had such a nurgle name. That can create terrible unintended foreshadowing.

 

Finally, I will always pronounce monkeigh as mon-kai (no monkey - screw you ADB! ) and Abaddon as A-bad-un (I don't care that Abaddon is a thing, he is a bad 'un!)

[Panzer]

 

I've been following 40k for so long that things like Hive Tyrant, Space Wolf, Monkeigh, Nobz, devastor squad etc conjure up the image of the thing. If I thought too much about the actual words (or had not experience of the setting) I would think that these things were daft sounding. I know that some people still feel that way about Space Wolves (e.g. Wolf McFangbite) or Salamanders (e.g. Firey Drakeborn). And who would forget the 'wet leopard growl' which is far less prominent than the forums suggest.

 

 

Hah, yeah same with some T'au units. Broadside and Riptide for example. I can't stand their german translations because I don't connect them with the image of the unit immediately so it just sounds silly but I'm more than fine with the english terms by now. ^^

[mc warhammer]

 

I just wish they hadn’t renamed the Imperial Guard the “star of the soldiers” in a real-world language.

I know Latin isn’t High Gothic, but it’s a language some of us can sorta read and we can’t unsee things like that.

And the new Eldar names would sound more properly alien if they didn’t end with -i, since so many Latin/High Gothic plurals do.

At least it's not as bad as Space Marines being named after a fertility goddess...

i like it, and i would guess that in-universe that name has come to have very different connotations

 

anyway have the bts on why the creators picked that term for the space marines?

[carlisimo]

Probably something to do with their rebirth as marines - and Astarte was also a warrior goddess.

[Brother Tyler]

This isn't a topic about the origins of the terms, only whether or not Black Library (and, by extension, writers for other Games Workshop products such as White Dwarf Magazine, the codices, Forge World, etc.) has guidelines in place for authors.

I would guess that there are guidelines, potentially even a style guide of sorts, for using terms. In certain contexts, certain terms must be used. In other contexts, other terms may be used.

For example, we've already hit upon the concept of "high" and "low" Gothic. When the narrative is that of conversation, the style guide might allow common terms that are relative to the speaker's understanding to be used. This would, naturally, vary with the speaker. The common man might use "Sisters of Battle" or "Imperial Guard" whereas an Inquisitor might use "Adepta Sororitas" or "Astra Militarum." And this might vary from individual to individual, and situation to situation. When I speak to my nine-year old son, I use different terms than I use with my father-in-law. Good authors know how to phrase dialog and narrative according to the situation and the reader.

 

As others have demonstrated, this is a normal practice with a broad range of products, not just licensed fiction like that published by Black Library, but also used extensively by media, [other] games companies, comic books, industry, and government. There's no reason that any company that reaches a certain level of professionalism (and whatever complaints some players might have about Games Workshop, it is certainly a company that meets/exceeds the low water mark for that) wouldn't have style guidelines for official written work.

[Knockagh]

I have no idea! I imagine they probably do. It’s tie in fiction, it would make sense they would have guidelines at the very minimum.

[mc warhammer]

This isn't a topic about the origins of the terms, only whether or not Black Library (and, by extension, writers for other Games Workshop products such as White Dwarf Magazine, the codices, Forge World, etc.) has guidelines in place for authors.

 

well, yeah. also, to bring back to topic...the 'rule' to use "space marines" rather than "astartes" is well known

 

from my own experience in tv and animation, these things are important. we had an international animated series based on a concept that also had a live action version, and there were certain terms we couldn't use that had been 100% licensed to the live action people even though our characters were 100% the same.

 

not too different from how the mcu and sony both use quicksilver but only sony can call him a "mutant" while the mcu is left with the term "enhanced"

 

i know that toys need to release figures every so often to retain trademarks and copyrights on names, but beyond the legal side i imagine it's just nice to have cohesion across all branding

[Panzer]

They use "astartes" though.