Lightbox Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hi Everyone, So I'm still trying to properly get into 8th ed of 40k as I've just ended up so busy with AoS projects that everytime I try to push to do 40k stuff I end up getting sidetracked. Anyway I've recently picked up the custodes book as we had the horus heresy set with a couple that I've now put together and as a small, elite and nasty in CC army they seem right up my alley. I plan to use them alongside my sisters of battle (as well as possibly occasionally putting in the rogue trader starstriders for some cheap, fun deepstrike objective grabs or sisters of silence for some anti-psyker and because they've worked together a lot in fluff) So my ideal style is casual fun games and would be interested in making more fluffy lists (never been able to get on with proper competitive) and I was hoping for some guidance in quite how to build into custodes. So far I have built: -1 Shield Captain with Spear & misericorde-1 Vexillor with shield -3 guard - 2 spear with misericorde, 1 sword and shield So I've heard generally the land raider / dreadnought aren't hugely useful for the army which is fine for me because I prefer their foot troops / bikes anyway. I presume I'll want more guard as our troops choice which would also allow me to play them solo sometimes a bit easier? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You’ll want at least 9 regular Gaurdians so you can make a battalion but they can be really impressive in larger squads too. Even though they’re expensive they’re some of the best troops in the game so it’s not necessary to treat them like a tax in the way a Marine player has to. Next get some bikes. They are undisputedly the best unit in the codex. They’re great for clearing out blobs of infantry and their CC performance is great. They work well as regular bikers and as shield captains on bikes. The problem you’ll next have is whether you want Terminators and/or wardens. Both are great units with some great stratagem support. The downside you’ll find though is they’re just not bikes. If you’re ok with that (I always am) then choose whichever you like or both. The Terminators can simply murder almost anything in Combat and have a pretty hefty ranged punch for a melee unit too, plus they have inbuilt deepstrike which is great. For those reasons I tend to prefer termies over wardens but both are good. As you say, avoid the land raider and the normal dread. Both are useless and the land raider in particular is still laughably overcosted. At some point we may get proper rules for the FW models but they’ve been delayed a long time now and no news has been shared about them other than they’re not being worked on right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You can't go wrong with picking a box of wardens to get 3 squads of 3 to form a batallion then I'd get some bikes but it's up to you. The telemon is our best antitank without being op Te basis of my custodes army is: 2 shcaps on bike 3x 3 custodes 1/2 shields vexilus -1 to hit One squd teleports the rest drag along the banner bikes sneak behind cover or turbo into objectives Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_149 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I keep looking at the telemon. It looks good in paper how is it in game? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 You can't go wrong with picking a box of wardens to get 3 squads of 3 to form a batallion then I'd get some bikes but it's up to you. The telemon is our best antitank without being op Te basis of my custodes army is: 2 shcaps on bike 3x 3 custodes 1/2 shields vexilus -1 to hit One squd teleports the rest drag along the banner bikes sneak behind cover or turbo into objectives Box of wardens for 3 x 3? Do you mean pick up a second unit of guard and use my shield captain as the 9th guard till I ger more? That could work with the bikes as my captains for now. A small battalion to have as a core with my sisters and such supporting. Cheers for the replies you two! Definitely given me a good start to think about. I'll more than happily take any further advice or alternate opinions from folks too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I keep looking at the telemon. It looks good in paper how is it in game? It’s not worth it’s points in my experience. I’ve stopped using it. It dies surprisingly quickly as, even with its invulnerable save, there’s still plenty of stuff out there that can kill it quickly. The CC variant is even worse value for points. It needs a drop in price for me to start taking it again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_149 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Cool thanks saves me £50 :) cheers buddy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordofmandulis Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think it's awesome in the environment you are talking about playing in, if you use some decent terrain it's not beyond reason to hide it turn 1, or of you're that bothered about losing it you can deepstrike it in turn 2 for 1cp. I love it as it adds a other dimension to my army, I can actually interact with the shooting phase a bit with something other than bikes, and it takes the heat off the bikes too. Not to mention the model is. Badass Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsky25 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I'd echo the poster above me - you say in your opening remarks you're looking to play in a casual fun environment, the minor inefficiency a Telemon has shouldn't be a concern compared to both its utility and coolness. It's an easy tendency in online codex discussions to gravitate away from suggesting anything but absolutely the best, but people win games with all sorts of lists all the time, even in high level play. I took a Land Raider pre CA 2019 in a number of games and fared well enough against most of my opponents, even beating out some of the best local armies in a meta that's certainly not casual. You'll have some things that are below average effectiveness, and some things that are above, as long as you take a mix in your army list you'll be fine. More on topic some of my highest performing units recently have been basic custodian guard, they're reasonably costed with devastating close range shooting and melee attacks. I'd suggest taking more than the minimum 3x3 squads as they give you some of the highest output of shots and attacks for the lowest price. The guardian spear shooting is surprisingly effective against monsters and vehicles and very useful. I admit I play in a meta where elements of my opponents army are regularly in range at midfield, and against a gunline army you'll need something to get up there more effectively, such as terminators or bikes, so keep in mind what you expect to play against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 You can't go wrong with picking a box of wardens to get 3 squads of 3 to form a batallion then I'd get some bikes but it's up to you. The telemon is our best antitank without being op Te basis of my custodes army is: 2 shcaps on bike 3x 3 custodes 1/2 shields vexilus -1 to hit One squd teleports the rest drag along the banner bikes sneak behind cover or turbo into objectives Box of wardens for 3 x 3? Do you mean pick up a second unit of guard and use my shield captain as the 9th guard till I ger more? That could work with the bikes as my captains for now. A small battalion to have as a core with my sisters and such supporting. Cheers for the replies you two! Definitely given me a good start to think about. I'll more than happily take any further advice or alternate opinions from folks too! I meant that since you've already got one box of guardians another of wardens would give you more variety and a total of 9 custodians+vexilus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 @burningsky25 Actually the guy asking about telemon was someone different and hasn't stated what his local meta is. Though I will agree that people do often only talk about the best of best (something I see a lot on the AoS forum I frequent). I likely won't get the telemon as I don't really go for forgeworld vehicles much (though will be keeping an eye out for the sisters of silence should talons of the emperor ever get finished!). I am glad to hear the landraider can perform well though as I may be interested in getting one eventually. I assume it needs to be transporting something to be worth it and not just as a gun platform? Thanks for your reply though as the point of this thread was to try and get different opinions on things (quote system seems to be bugging out and not working for me) So I've got some good ideas of a start for the army now What would you guys recommend looking into for the supplements for them though? As I've said I'm planning to use them with my adeptus ministorum so I presume I'll want to use those to provide some anti tank and bodies for objectives? I also will at one point want a knight for this collection because I do like knights. What sort of loadout would people recommend for that? I've considered warden for anti-horde, errant for more anti-tank and gallant to run in and smash face. Though with custodes I presume they face smash quite well so possibly a melee only knight is not so useful? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 You will either want a xrusader/castellan for the antitank and/or a guard batallion company commanders + infantry squadd with a single plasma. If you want ministorum you can throw in a priest, emperors conclave formation and you've got frateris militia Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 @burningsky25 Actually the guy asking about telemon was someone different and hasn't stated what his local meta is. Though I will agree that people do often only talk about the best of best (something I see a lot on the AoS forum I frequent). I likely won't get the telemon as I don't really go for forgeworld vehicles much (though will be keeping an eye out for the sisters of silence should talons of the emperor ever get finished!). I am glad to hear the landraider can perform well though as I may be interested in getting one eventually. I assume it needs to be transporting something to be worth it and not just as a gun platform? Thanks for your reply though as the point of this thread was to try and get different opinions on things (quote system seems to be bugging out and not working for me) So I've got some good ideas of a start for the army now What would you guys recommend looking into for the supplements for them though? As I've said I'm planning to use them with my adeptus ministorum so I presume I'll want to use those to provide some anti tank and bodies for objectives? I also will at one point want a knight for this collection because I do like knights. What sort of loadout would people recommend for that? I've considered warden for anti-horde, errant for more anti-tank and gallant to run in and smash face. Though with custodes I presume they face smash quite well so possibly a melee only knight is not so useful? I wouldn't recommend a Gallant with custodes. A friend of mine runs one in nearly every army for one purpose: to scare his opponents into shooting that and nothing else. They're dirt cheap, huge bodies and have a tonne of staying power, not to mention they can shift across the battlefield quite fast. I'd go for one of the gun platforms, either three armigers or a big boy with siegebreaker missiles. Custodes are sorely lacking in long range anti-armour firepower, the last thing I'd want to do is cut their numbers just to include more melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5227896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Crusader avenger/termal 450 32 guards 180 that leaves you 870pts for custard the new canis rex model is your best option with all the juicy bits and not much more expensive than a basic knight. knights are a bit op tho... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Knights ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 @burningsky25 Actually the guy asking about telemon was someone different and hasn't stated what his local meta is. Though I will agree that people do often only talk about the best of best (something I see a lot on the AoS forum I frequent). I likely won't get the telemon as I don't really go for forgeworld vehicles much (though will be keeping an eye out for the sisters of silence should talons of the emperor ever get finished!). I am glad to hear the landraider can perform well though as I may be interested in getting one eventually. I assume it needs to be transporting something to be worth it and not just as a gun platform? Thanks for your reply though as the point of this thread was to try and get different opinions on things (quote system seems to be bugging out and not working for me) So I've got some good ideas of a start for the army now What would you guys recommend looking into for the supplements for them though? As I've said I'm planning to use them with my adeptus ministorum so I presume I'll want to use those to provide some anti tank and bodies for objectives? I also will at one point want a knight for this collection because I do like knights. What sort of loadout would people recommend for that? I've considered warden for anti-horde, errant for more anti-tank and gallant to run in and smash face. Though with custodes I presume they face smash quite well so possibly a melee only knight is not so useful? I wouldn’t bother with the warden. You’d think a weapon like that would be really good at anti-horde but in reality it’s only 12 shots on a BS3 platform which means 8 hits at S6 which means roughly 7 dead guardsmen. If the horde units are T4 or have better armour it drops off rapidly. All that for over 400 points. If you compare that to 360 points of Custodes bikes that would be 48 S4 shots in rapid fire range that would hit on 2s. Overall against those same guardsmen they’d net 17 dead guardsmen. Plus they also have their CC ability. TL:DR Custodes bikes are way better at anti-horde than any knight. I’m not saying don’t take a knight, just don’t take one for anti-horde duties :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 A Battalion of Guards is a good point to start - Wardens just don't bring the same bang/ buck to the table. The Terminators are nice (Deep Strike sans CP usage), but even with the Launchers, they just don't provide volume of fire. That's where the bikes come in. Seriously, Bikes are badass. Not only do they provide unparalleled mobility, but each one puts out 6 shots, 12 at Rapid Fire range. Take as many as you can. [Edit: Mark0sian said it.] That only leaves you with one weak spot - the Psychic phase. And for that, I'd point towards the Talons of the Emperor box. The Custards weren't the only thing in there. Sisters of Silence force a -1 on Psychic tests on any Psyker within 18" of them. Per Squad. That can add up to -4. If that's not your style, you need another way (Grey Knights maybe?) to deny enemy Psychic tests. About the whole Knights thing... you say you play casual fluffy games. Dude, if someone brought a bunch of Custodes and a fracking Knight to the table, you'd be bummed and so will your mates be if you show up with a load out of that sort unless they're all Eldar players. Are they? No? Then go either Knights OR Custards. Have a heart. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsky25 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 @burningsky25 Actually the guy asking about telemon was someone different and hasn't stated what his local meta is. Though I will agree that people do often only talk about the best of best (something I see a lot on the AoS forum I frequent). I likely won't get the telemon as I don't really go for forgeworld vehicles much (though will be keeping an eye out for the sisters of silence should talons of the emperor ever get finished!). I am glad to hear the landraider can perform well though as I may be interested in getting one eventually. I assume it needs to be transporting something to be worth it and not just as a gun platform? Thanks for your reply though as the point of this thread was to try and get different opinions on things (quote system seems to be bugging out and not working for me) The landraider may not be the easiest to use, but it can work in a pinch. I bought the talons of the emperor box set so it's what I had available, and I badly needed ranged anti tank, so I took it. The goodside is that if you have a shield captain nearby, or even without, it provides some very reliable lascannon shots. PoMS is amazing on a BS 2+ platform and almost unheard of outside of our codex. Additionally, in a custodes army with bikes the landraider will likely not be the most threatening thing on the table meaning it gets to provide that firepower for a couple rounds at least. The downside is that it's still a big portion of your army, and you have to do everything you can to keep it out of combat. A central part of your gameplan becomes preventing the enemy from ever charging your land raider successfully, and that can be difficult with a low model count army. (I learned this the hard way after being tied up in combat with the same unit an entire game after a first turn charge from some gaunts). It's doable in most scenarios, but you have to use it with that mindset. To that end I would never, ever, transport anybody in it. One, because it would reduce my models available to defend it, and second because that would mean getting closer to charge range with it. If we had the Sagittarum Guard I'd consider hiding them inside first turn, but that's about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I would never run a landraider for Custodes. They are a huge point sink in an army that really can’t afford it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 About the whole Knights thing... you say you play casual fluffy games. Dude, if someone brought a bunch of Custodes and a fracking Knight to the table, you'd be bummed and so will your mates be if you show up with a load out of that sort unless they're all Eldar players. Are they? No? Then go either Knights OR Custards. Have a heart. Bit aggressively put there buddy. Having not faced knights or custodes I have little idea of whether they're a nasty combination or not. I just like the models. As for knights alone I keep hearing / reading contradictory things on them. Some people say they're op, some say they're not. If anything I'd expect bike spam to also be rather nasty. Regardless the knight would probably be more appropriate in a sister heavy list since with custodes it's gonna cut numbers for objectives heavily. Or be brought out should someone want the challenge of fighting it. I will say though I think the 'have a heart' comment was a bit much. Anyway back on topic, sisters of silence are definitely a good consideration for some anti psyker and I do have a couple squads so I'll look into them a bit more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Knights and bike spam are too nasty for casual gamea Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Bit aggressively put there buddy. Having not faced knights or custodes I have little idea of whether they're a nasty combination or not. I just like the models. As for knights alone I keep hearing / reading contradictory things on them. Some people say they're op, some say they're not. If anything I'd expect bike spam to also be rather nasty. Regardless the knight would probably be more appropriate in a sister heavy list since with custodes it's gonna cut numbers for objectives heavily. Or be brought out should someone want the challenge of fighting it. I will say though I think the 'have a heart' comment was a bit much. Anyway back on topic, sisters of silence are definitely a good consideration for some anti psyker and I do have a couple squads so I'll look into them a bit more. You're right, there's obviously a ;) missing to convey the tongue-in-cheek tone I had in mind while writing this. No aggression whatsoever, so hold your horses. Now if I was into Knights, I'd SO do this :D Then again, I might not have a heart. But it is overkill for true casual play because most casual armies are a bit of AP and a bit of anti-horde. A bit won't do against a combo like that, it would take serious volumes of AP and multi D weapons to bring it down. [Edit: Or Slamguinius. Both work.] As for taking the challenge, I would. In a heartbeat. My casual C:SM army would get tabled in 3 turns, but I tend to not care about that if it's fun! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightbox Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 Bit aggressively put there buddy. Having not faced knights or custodes I have little idea of whether they're a nasty combination or not. I just like the models. As for knights alone I keep hearing / reading contradictory things on them. Some people say they're op, some say they're not. If anything I'd expect bike spam to also be rather nasty. Regardless the knight would probably be more appropriate in a sister heavy list since with custodes it's gonna cut numbers for objectives heavily. Or be brought out should someone want the challenge of fighting it. I will say though I think the 'have a heart' comment was a bit much. Anyway back on topic, sisters of silence are definitely a good consideration for some anti psyker and I do have a couple squads so I'll look into them a bit more. You're right, there's obviously a ;) missing to convey the tongue-in-cheek tone I had in mind while writing this. No aggression whatsoever, so hold your horses. Now if I was into Knights, I'd SO do this :D Edit: but it is overkill for true casual play because most casual armies are a bit of AP and a bit of anti-horde. A bit won't do against a combo like that, it would take serious volumes of AP and multi D weapons to bring it down. As for taking the challenge, I would. In a heartbeat. My casual C:SM army would get tabled in 3 turns, but I tend to not care about that if it's fun! :) Whoops didn't realize the tongue in cheek. Apologies for that. But yeah I'd likely do the same thing I do when I use Archaon in AoS let my opponent know when I'm bringing it and making sure they're cool trying to fight it. My main opponent likely will be eldar so it'll be interesting to see his anti tank stuff giving it a go. I do acknowledge though that they and as the poster above stated bike spam will be mean for casual so I'll definitely keep that in mind and check with opponents. All the advice on here has been super useful for me so thanks everyone ^_^ I'm quite excited to get this army going now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 My main opponent likely will be eldar so it'll be interesting to see his anti tank stuff giving it a go. I do acknowledge though that they and as the poster above stated bike spam will be mean for casual so I'll definitely keep that in mind and check with opponents. Bike Spam is essential for pure Custards to have a chance against hordes. Bikes are tough, but they're still more like fragile mobile Dreadnoughts than spammable tanks, so if you bring less than 10, nobody should bat an eye. Eldar? Oh boy, that's gonna be good! I'd say those are two of the hardest to beat armies facing off. Keep us posted :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352835-help-with-starting-custodes/#findComment-5228816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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