dbecer01 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 What do you guys take to survive a list like this? I am removing my primaris, because the cheap plasma scions remove my 2 wound Primaris too efficiently. Also the Taurox primes very eadily deal with my infantry (20 str5 shots per prime). What do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You have only really two options. Hide in transports or hide in reserves. Okay you have three options actually since you can just spam enough infantry so they can't remove all of them and you have enough for a counter punch I guess. But yeah Plasma spam is stupid and one of the reasons why it's not as much fun to play Marines currently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbecer01 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Hiding in DS is situational, because it depends on who goes first. My opponent likes to hold some scions back until all of my guys come out of DS to bring his guys out, if at all possible. So, I guess maybe cheap transports is the only option. Maybe stick flamers on them.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Keep in mind that you can also deny deep strike space rather easily with just a few Rhinos even if they're empty and that you can kill deep striking Scions before they get to shoot via Stratagem (at least one of the Scion units per turn I guess). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbecer01 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 hmmm... some ideas here ... I'm going to get some Rhinos later and try somenof this out ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 What do you guys take to survive a list like this? I am removing my primaris, because the cheap plasma scions remove my 2 wound Primaris too efficiently. Also the Taurox primes very eadily deal with my infantry (20 str5 shots per prime). What do you guys think? Taurox Gatling guns are only str 4 and ap none. The vehicle is also only T6 and is quite expensive for a transport. Scion plasma is godly good vs Primaris but your basic boltrifle is great vs Scions. What is he doing to deal with your tanks? Scions generally struggle vs vehicle as their only AT is mostly melta, and the trouble units you're listing are primarily anti-infantry. How are his Tauroxes surviving your antitank? Tauroxes are dead meat vs missiles, plasma, melta, and lascannon. Even assault cannons will give them a bad day. Suggestions: 1. Bring some vehicles. 2. Bring long range AT. Scions are a short range army, they have limited options outside of 24". Screen the Deep Strike and force him to play at range where your bolt rifles and lascannon win. 3. Never forget the Auspex Scan stratagem to shoot deep striking units when they arrive. 4. Bread and butter beats Scions. Scouts, Tacticals, Rhinos, and Razorbacks will carry the day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbecer01 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 I wasn't bringing vehicles at all. I was mostly bringing hellblasters for anti-tank. He uses the plamsa scions to melt vehicles. All of his scions that can take plasma, take it. Will try it out though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 If you are taking Primaris then a Standard of Sacrifice will be a big help against plasma. You need to fail both 5+++ rolls against the 2 wounds to lose 1 Marine per shot so the SoS takes your from each failed save killing a whole Marine to each failed save only killing 4/9 of a Marine. That is a big difference. Using cover is also helpful as it bumps your save from a 6+ to a 5+ (vs AP-3) which is as good as casting Shield of Sanguinius on the unit. Transports are definitely good and I would say there is actually a case for Land Raiders here as it sounds like your opponent is lacking high-punch anti-tank. Overcharged plasma only wounds LRs on a 4+ and they still get a 5+ save and they can only do 2 wounds. At BS3+, it will take 36 plasma shots to kill a Land Raider. Even if your opponent manages to DS that many Scions near a LR (and he shouldn't if you screen) that is a whole load of plasma not going into your infantry. Also the hurricane bolters and ACs on an LRC will mulch Scions very quickly. A cheap squad or 2 can deploy inside the LRC before disembarking and charging any DSing Scions. Even Tactical marines will give Scions a bad day as their shooting wounds on a 3+ and their melee attacks wound on a 2+ thanks to Red Thirst. Flyers are also a good choice. The -1 to hit makes it very risky for your opponent to overcharge his plasma when shooting at them. Without Overcharging, it will take 50 plasma shots to down a Storm Raven and its Hurricane Bolters and ACs will shred Scions as noted while its missiles will deal with Tauroxes. Screens, metal bawkses and a sprinkling of our special toys should give the edge you need against Scions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Something like Forlorn Fury with some Death Company could work wonders as a screen/ distraction. I don't think you'd even need many upgrades, maybe just one Hammer/ Sword per 5 guys. Rush them forward and start making a problem your enemy has to deal with, they'll tear Scions apart with High volume of attacks that wound on 2+. OR, some hot buzz of the forum - Company/ Vanguard Veterans with Storm Shields. The 3++ is super valuable against most Scion Shooting and combined with the likes of Storm Bolters or a few power weapons you'll mince those Beret-Boys! Storm shields went down to a mere 2pts in Chapter Approved! Sniper Scouts could also be a decent option to pick off his commanders and lower the amount of orders he's giving. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Yes, VanVets with Storm Shields will really spoil they day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Maybe spam MSU in lasbacks, the transport capacity will protect your units until you pop his primes with the lascannons. Be sure to concentrate on one at a time rather that split fire, and keep them out of plasma range. What I’d transport in them I don’t know, but I’d bring some tactical for ObSec, or whatever it’s called now, and maybe a couple of heavy flamer dev squads for weight of fire, and maybe a couple of RAS with double plasma, as you wouldn’t even need to overcharge to get the best use out of them as they will make short work out of scions with their T3 and 4+ save. Just theory hammering here as I’ve not dealt with this particular foe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5227873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbecer01 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 One thing about the Death Company, is that my opponent reacts to them in such a way as that he will not bring his scions out of DS, until I bring them out in the board. So, should I just come in first turn, maybe try to wrap around a Taurox, or should they wait, and see if they can come in after the scions 3rd turn? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5228042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 You could keep em in your deployment zone and UWoF them to where they’re needed, protecting them from deepstriking scions with some scouts as chaff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5228047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 We can help much more if we know more about your and his list. Marine armies offer plenty of «new player traps» like tacticals ;-p And what missions are you playing. Those will heavily influence how you play. You can also protect some of your marines from DS with the Auspex Scan stratagem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5228126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I think list building is a crutch we all return to...tactics are just as important if not more so. It can be helpful to think of your army as a naval fleet, and there is usually (the semblance of) a formation you want to maintain as best you can for as much of the game as you can. Too often we get caught up in sending unit A to deal with unit B and C against D, etc... ideally you want your army as a whole made up of interlocking, independent parts. I ran Attack Bikes for a long time that really helped as "wing" units that would be 18" from my main thrust at all times. You can use Scout bikes, Assault Marines, allies, or less mobile units like Scouts/Tacs/Intercessors with careful planning and positioning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5228194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Scions are the ultimate glass cannon... they get to shoot at most once then die horribly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352848-vs-plasma-scions-and-taurox-primes/#findComment-5228196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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