Titandeath supplement discussion

[Mendi Warrior]

That is how I understood it when they talked of the Reaper maniple for Mortis during the last Twitch stream. Hope to get more info during the weekend.

[noigrim]

Very happy with titandeath, the campaign system looks simple&solid and it even lets me use astorum rules for metalica!

There are som caldrea mispells too ;)

[Taliesin]

The new Doom of Molech campaign book looks fantastic as well. 

[Mendi Warrior]

Just received my copy today, I had a very quick look, seems quite enjoyable.

[Sherrypie]

Haven't seen a thorough Legio rundown here yet, so here's my take post-Titandeath:

 

Right. As people have gotten hold of their copies of Titandeath, there has been some buzz on relative merits and shortcomings of different Legios. As a firm believer of adapting one's tactics to what's presented and trying them out instead of wishing they were something they are not, here's my one man take on the different strengths and interesting configurations for the ten Legios we currently have. Personally I play a homebrew Legio and have no fictive bias towards any particular side, so I hope to cover everyone equally. Constructive discussion encouraged, especially when folks start to get games under their wings with any particular rules.

 

First tenet: every single one of these is playable and you are not shooting yourself in the foot by picking what you want. With proper tactics all Legios have things going for them and it is very likely that more hidden gems will present themselves as time goes by, we get more maniples and so forth. Local meta also influences choices as per usual.

 

Let's get this show started.

 

 

 

Legio Gryphonicus:

 

Masters of Reaver swapping with lots of upgrade bits. The auspex relays on Warhounds are pretty unnecessary unless you as a player have difficulties of gauging distances by eye, but the Reaver ones are interesting. 25 points for push-free movement bonuses is not bad when going up close, which combines especially well with one of their personal traits, Master Duellist (reroll hits when within 8”).

 

Besides Reaver swaps, their trait allows making claims to fell chosen targets alone. As this is mostly a game of slow-ish battleships and concentration of fire, I find this one a bit trickier to make use of as you lose the benefit by coordinating your attacks on same targets. Probably best suited for gunheavy Warlords that can both strip shields and punch through after with lots of shots (a Macro Gatling + Plasma Annihilator + carapace missiles / gatlings mid-field brawler, for an example) to take full benefit of +1 to armour, but something could also be said about Reavers picking smaller targets as their first targets or going all out against larger engines when equipped with close combat weaponry. Take a good old power/chainfist Reaver, claim a Warlord and run full tilt against it while not even bothering taking its shields down as your other forces deal with their softer targets. This little suicide runner could also have ApocMissiles on top, so it can lay shield stripping help anywhere on the board to help others while it either runs forwards or dashes from cover to cover.

 

 

Legio Tempestus:

 

The lords of the storm offer an interesting combination of speed and range. Their Legio traits give them a couple of extra shots during the game either when they die or when their engines rage, but the real fun is in the upgrades. Chasmata laser weapons can get 6” more range for 5 points per die, making Laser Blasters a bit more appealing all over as they get -1 to hit after 19” rather than 16” while Turbo-lasers can snipe opportunistic targets almost at the other end of the table. But check their personal trait Storm-born: ALL titans in the Seniores' maniple get to move on boosted speed without pushing their reactors when on Charge orders. All. Slap some singular fists on your Reavers in Corsair maniples, surge forwards with all in the first turns and use their mobility to crab dance all around your opponent later in the game while tearing chunks out of them. As Charge only prevents turning during the movement, your shooting isn't even hurt by that on the first turn if you just deploy so you don't hurt your positioning by the small turning restrictions.

 

Also, droppable Warhounds if you're feeling feisty. On Retrieval mission? Drop a Warhound on top of that dang unreachable objective turn 2, fill the area with Blind Barrage to survive intact and get running 24” the turn after. It doesn't matter if your reactor is screaming and your body is burning when you reach your line, that's 20 VP in a bag or at least forces your opponent to really run on the objective, which again funnels their movement where you want and... you get the picture.

 

 

Legio Astorum:

 

Ever reliable Warp Runners get free rerolls on their Repair dice, which is quite handy for all classes, but especially so on Warhounds, who are notoriously vulnerable to overcooking. This might help them use their primary bonus in the early game, that being 2” of extra speed while boosting on turns 1-2, but on the flipside causes worse results on reactor rolls and further increases the chances of your Warhounds acting under their machine spirits (ie. durdling around and not going where you want them to). On slower titans this is a real boon, allowing lumbering Warlords to cover some actual damn distance: take Full Stride first turn and let your enemy wonder how it has surged 24” forwards by turn 2. In addition of letting you use midrange guns more effectively from the word go, this also has the added benefit of giving you more choice in missions like Vital Cargo. If you have a Warlord with, say, Plasma Annihilator + Fist + carapace Gatlings over halfway through the table by turn 2, what is going to stop it from going through with the Cargo (and succeed in doing that while the rest of the Astorum line either supports it or makes a dash on the other flank to score secondary points)? Hard decisions for the opposition, especially when you can further impede their efforts by reigniting fallen shields mid-fire with Machine Defiance when they make their choice!

 

These strong traits are somewhat balanced by less impressive Personal Traits the Legio gets, personally I'd rather go with the list in the Rulebook if aiming for competetive edge. That said, Astorum is a strong Legio which doesn't require too much trickery to be effective. I won't necessarily say it's stronger than others, but it is pretty straightforward and less situational.

 

 

Legio Defensor:

 

Got faith in the Emperor? These guys sure do, so much so that they can shout ”not today” and refuse to die. Though that takes 3 stratagem points, it's still fun. More importantly though, these guys are very good if you like playing defensive missions (nomen est omen much?), where your opponent might have more points than you do. This is because their traits allow them to both fire extra on the first turn (giving your smaller force more oomph) and to benefit from more reliable Command checks once your engines start dying. Not rating their 2 point ”fire one weapon at double range before game starts” stratagem very highly, as it produces 3 heat and often just plinks some shields down.

 

Interestingly enough they can buy 8” sirens for 20 points to let them pick the better of two dice in Command checks. If you like running 2-3 Warhounds as close packs, this might help to make sure they get their orders straight, even when not giving Squadron Orders on bonuses. Also an option for more stationary Warlords that bunk with a friend atop the battlefield asset that helps with their plasma use when you JUST HATE your ability to roll ones for those First Fire commands.

 

As befits their role of inspirational devouts ready to stand and die if need be, they can be very helpful in larger games if you take a maniple led by Icon of the True, who gives +1 to all other friendly Legios and Knights. Park these guys somewhere to hold the line and let your allies range further out, bolstered by their unyielding support. Even if they're alone, if you want to go heavy on Knights that might be an interesting option since it makes it harder for your enemy to lock your units in Shaken for the entire game.

 

Legio Atarus:

 

The impetuous Firebrands are one of those Legios people saw as very weak, but I don't buy that. It is true that their ability to more reliably get the initiative on the first turn is pretty meh, but they have some juicy bits for singular titans. For 1 stratagem point they can change one machine spirit roll to an automatic d6+2” move, which can with proper positioning be used to redeploy behind a corner or get that fist in their face after you push Voids to Full with an unactivated titan. Gambling, but interesting. In the same interesting vein they have some very tasty Personal Traits, like Unconventional Thinker, that allows you to counter your enemy once per game: they pick a titan and declare an action, you get to move d6” and turn 90 degrees before they do their thing. Slick moves when timed correctly. Theme continues with a stratagem that changes one titan's maniple trait for a turn, though this one is a bit situational with the maniples we currently have: you can take 2+ firing orders with Myrmidon, extra mobility with Corsair or do a double charge with nearby knights out of the blue with Janissary... so, eh, maybe, if you like surprising tricks and time them properly?

 

The real powers of the Legio, though, are the Inferno Missiles and their hateful memory of Shedim Drift. Missiles can be used to troll Knights and Warhounds or set terrain in flames, though I'd have liked to see the flames increase in strength longer they burn (if the terrain doesn't immediately fall, do a Str 5 hit next turn, then 6...). Nothing that can't be fixed with house rules, though. But Shedim, sweet Shedim: this Princeps can pick one of their weapons to reroll all Armour rolls every Combat phase through the round or all when fighting Mortis or Fureans. That's rough, as it's not failed rolls either, just rolls, so if you are in position and want to go fetching more criticals... Especially on Venator maniples: get your Melta Reaver in prime position and blast away all day. For competitive edge, run multiple maniples and get multiple Veterans of Shedim Drift. Let the curs of the Warmaster know you remember what they did.

 

Legio Solaria:

 

The Hunters run in packs. As the only Legio capable of using squadrons of 4 Hounds, they obviously benefit from running Lupercal maniples. You might not want to do that often, but having the possibility to decide that this turn you have four dogs in a maniple for +3 bonus in Squadron Orders and a punishing alpha strike that rips the heart out of their line is possible. For extra reliability, use the rulebook Personal Trait that allows you to just take initiative once per game and obliterate them with four titans before they get to shoot back. Another funky bit would be to take Janissary maniple, exchange all Reavers to Hounds and go with a horde of close range Warhounds and close combat knights like Cerastus Lancers.

 

If you like to run some Hounds further back, with say double Plasma or Turbo-lasers, sticking some Cameleoline on them might not be the worst idea to make it difficult for your enemy with one extra -1 they have to deal with. It's brittle and gets lost when you're damaged, but that's why run other Hounds further afield to take most of the enemy fire and opportunistically fire these guys from afar.

 

Fortis Motivators, not too sure. Warhounds are pretty bad at repairing, but oftentimes it isn't that important to repair their legs so reliably I'd pay points for it. Exceptions do exist though: if you like to go for Vital Cargo or Retrieval missions, you might equip some of your doggos for that purpose. Personal Traits aren't the flashiest ever either, though they do play well with the theme of nimble hunters. Automatically Full Striding combat Reaver ain't the worst nor is the ability to once take an extra shot to interrupt your enemy, but the real shine with this Legio is obviously in its versatile Hounds.

 

 

Legio Mortis:

 

Death's Heads are kinda funky. Their March of the Dead stratagem for a force-wide move is powerful, but eats a lot of points and their main traits aren't at hot, honestly. It is cool that they get to (once per game per engine) ignore critical damage effects to their head and it's cool that they get rerolls to shooting when they reap kills, buuut... You don't necessarily take hits to your head before you die nor do you necessarily gain too many kills in the first half of the game and even then it only benefits the engine that makes the kill, which might be the next engine to blow up for all that matters thus wasting the bonus. Rerolls are powerful in a game where there aren't many, though, and a cunning player can very well focus early on to score a kill or two on their important engines, thus getting to benefit the most. Just the possibility of that happening might hinder your opponent's plans, if they don't want to leave any exposed engines in your sights early on. Squadrons may help here and there is a possibility of building quite a monster with a Venator maniple over the game, as your Warhounds use Coordinated Attacks to pepper the enemy full of holes, drop their shields time and again as they try to flicker to life and killshot them with a Melta/Volcano armed Reaver that keeps on taking names.

 

Upgrades are pretty meh, since Warmaster's Beneficience only affects the first shot and costs quite some points. It does allow you to ignore Draining, though, which means you might want to use it on longrange Shieldbane guns like Warlord's carapace lasers to get at least some shields down immediately and then pounce on that target to get your Reaper's Tally rolling. The +1 difficulty to enemy Command checks within 8” upgrade seems more like a stylistic choice, unless you want to play aggressively with combat Reavers that rush their face, but it might be worth it in a meta where your opponents like to run to you: knights, Warhounds, other Combat Reavers, this makes defending against them a little bit easier.

 

On Personal Traits, my eye is drawn to Ancient of Terra, which stops your engine from blowing up to overheating. If you like to run all Draining all day while pushing for speed, this might be a good safety valve for you.

 

Legio Krytos:

 

Ah God Breakers, how misjudged is your beauty. This Legio seems to have been one of those people rated lowly, which I vehemently disagree with. In a game of maneuver, it is a godly power to stop your opponent from moving and Krytos has that for days. Sure, most of their abilities are a bit more narrative in the sense they interact a lot with terrain or let them have easier time on such tables that use lots of Dangerous Terrain and might thus be a bit lower on the power curve for tournament purposes, but...

 

The ability to fire Quake missiles from your Apocalypse pods let's you play merry havoc with the opposition's plans. Not only can you use these otherwise rather small strength guns to blow up all the cover their entire table half has and force them to advance in open while staying in cover yourself, while saving the bigger guns for the later salvo, you can lock their Knights up and make their titans dance in place. If you like Warlords, Krytos can take a purely Warlord Myrmidon maniple that can blast away while the enemy has a hard time to reach them under Quake, but I would say my personal favourite here is the possibility of using a Venator that centers on the missile-armed Reaver to hamstring your opponents: you run forwards with Warhounds, perhaps armed with bolters and Inferno Cannons in some combination, rip shields apart to get free Venator shots from the Reaver that can Barrage even targets it cannot see, lock as much as you can in half speed with Quake and start running rings around them with your Hounds as they struggle to get a bead on you.

 

If you like to interact with the playing field, World Bane is an interesting trait as you can create Dangerous Terrain and thus both deny your opponent cover and make their decicions harder. Want to come over here by the shortest route? Better watch those legs, would be a shame if they were to melt under you. You can also combine that with Iron Endures to go through said terrain more safely yourself when need be. Another interesting if not earthshatteringly powerful trait is Path of Iron, the only thing that allows crossing other models by kicking Questoris out of the way. Got a lot of ants in your meta? Crush them under your stride.

 

Legio Fureans:

 

Did somebody say unbridled aggression? The Tiger Eyes have increased chances of letting their machine spirits run amok, but also get to choose which result they take instead of rolling. Push forth with Impetuous, unleash extra shots or even get extra repair for some paltry reactor heat all day erryday, combined with their murder-with-extra-spice stratagem that let's a whole maniple use one weapon again that turn and you have a really powerful if a bit unpredictable offensive Legio. One might suppose running a lot of easily awakened Warhounds with Plasma Blastguns could really hurt (both you and your enemy), as they can let loose and fire multiple times during the Movement and Combat phases (running, turning, using shields...) and quickly blow up by overheating themselves. But hey, it'll be a blast!

 

They can also buy auspexes that negate one -1 to hit when shooting over 12”, which means you can have effective shieldstripping bolterfire on targets in cover, more accurate plasma death from Warhounds, more use out of Laser Blasters and what not. This doesn't pair too well with their Personal Traits that encourage a more close quarters approach, like ripping arms off, but on Warhounds and sniping Reavers that is not shabby at all.

 

 

Legio Vulpa:

 

The premium dealers of hands-on training in pain. Vulpa's engines get to hit on 2+ in fisticuffs, can upgrade +2 to their Strength and even vomit plasma on nearby combatants when they vent. What's not to like if you run combat heavy lists? Especially Corsair maniples full of Reavers with 1-2 fists can run to the enemy, use their mobility to find good positions in their flanks and then rip their throats open with rather reliable Critical Hits. Their stratagem of attacking again after a killing strike for one point is a potentially interesting advantage, if you get to use it in a situation where you kill one engine (often with a big weapon, having used your smaller ones to kill shields or so) and it explodes hurting those nearby, either taking shields or hurting someone's Body badly enough their shields drop as VSG's burn out. Situational, sure, potentially awesome, yes.

 

Nice traits too. I can see Razor Tongue's -2 to one target's Command checks as a surgical weapon for making your opponent's life hard. Make that crucial command harder or make their normal 2+ first pick more unreliable. Cruel is also fun if you tend to run against Knights, as it boosts all hits +2 in strength vs. Scale 5 or less. Macrogatling, missiles and other carapace weapons just got a lot better at removing those pesky critters if you want to fire bigger guns at proper engines.

 

But really, it's all about taking fists and rippin' their arms out with suicide Reavers. Get in there, tear something down and blow up taking them with you as is good and proper.

[DuskRaider]

On face value Mortis doesn't seem to be that great, but I think you need to approach them as a hyper aggressive Legio much like Vulpa. I can actually see the Mortis doing well with the new Knight Incorporated Maniple and some close combat specialist Reavers (maybe even a Warlord). Rush the enemy under the protection of Knights while Warlord(s) pop shields and / or get opposing Titans close to death then swoop in and reap the benefits of the kill.

[Gore Crow]

I agree, it certainly looks like you have to be belligerent with Mortis. I really like the feel they're going for, which is a steadily rising pressure throughout the game with rerolls for kills and extra str against damaged titans, but you've gotta manufacture a good start to get the ball rolling. It's like the old DE's Power from Pain mechanic.

 

Great write-up Sherrypie; I read it on Dakka and AT 2018, but I prefer this forum so I'm glad you've signed up. 

[Sherrypie]

I feel Mortis can get pretty brutal in narrative scenarios, where it's not uncommon to go on turn 6 and have more engines on field. If you have like 2500 points vs. 1500-2000, that extra pressure can result in early kills that may snowball harder than in normal Matched play.

 

Gore Crow: hiyo! Glad to finally be here amongst such enthusiastic folks.

[Sandlemad]

A fine writeup. Good point about the seeming lack of harmony between the Fureans wargear and their personal traits but on a maniple scale I think it works well. That particular personal trait seems pretty targeted at maniples that use a reaver as their princeps senioris, which is kinda cool.

[Cripple X]

Great write-up Sherrypie; I read it on Dakka and AT 2018, but I prefer this forum so I'm glad you've signed up. 

I agree. Thanks for the write-up Sherrypie. Very well done.

 

What's AT2018? Is there an AT site I don't know about?

 

Also does anyone know if there's an Adeptus Titanicus Discord server?

[Sherrypie]

 

 

Great write-up Sherrypie; I read it on Dakka and AT 2018, but I prefer this forum so I'm glad you've signed up.

I agree. Thanks for the write-up Sherrypie. Very well done.

 

What's AT2018? Is there an AT site I don't know about?

 

Also does anyone know if there's an Adeptus Titanicus Discord server?

A very active Facebook group for all AT related things.

[DuskRaider]

Probably the most active on FB. I'm pretty sure this is the most active forum covering AT.

[Zhiv]

Though be warned, for each awesome WIP or model done post on the FB you get 2-3 posts asking color schemes for Vulpa OR complaints about Krytos sucking. 

 

Which I think they don't?  Particularly? I don't think there are quite tier lists yet...

[Reyner]

I only look at the pictures on that Facebook group :P 

[Sherrypie]

Though be warned, for each awesome WIP or model done post on the FB you get 2-3 posts asking color schemes for Vulpa OR complaints about Krytos sucking.

 

Which I think they don't? Particularly? I don't think there are quite tier lists yet...

Yeah, noise to signal ratio is somewhat high there. Especially so on misread rules and less-than-obvious tactics.

 

No, Krytos don't suck, but people get hung up on terrain rules being optional and not seeing something obviously destructive.

[DuskRaider]

People think Krytos sucks because they have no clue what the word "tactics" means. If used properly, Krytos can be extremely efficient and deadly (although a bit one dimensional).

[Gore Crow]

I only look at the pictures on that Facebook group

 

This is probably the best way to do it. r/adeptustitanicus looked like it was going to be ok but has since quietened down a lot compared to other places, and the fb is way too busy.

 

No, Krytos don't suck, but people get hung up on terrain rules being optional and not seeing something obviously destructive.

Yeah, if anything I'd say it makes the terrain rules more likely to be used.

[Cripple X]

 

A very active Facebook group for all AT related things.

 

 

 

Probably the most active on FB. I'm pretty sure this is the most active forum covering AT.

 

 

Ah, thanks guys! That explains it.

 

We should start a dedicated Discord group to bring everyone from the various forums and sites together in one place.

[noigrim]

Mortis looks underwhelming , fureans and vulpa are far better.

Soliaria seems ointless to me sicne you can make squadrons of 5 warhounds with lupercal maniples

[Sherrypie]

Mortis looks underwhelming , fureans and vulpa are far better.

Soliaria seems ointless to me sicne you can make squadrons of 5 warhounds with lupercal maniples

 

You could pull off some tricks with it via Venator maniple, perhaps in a larger engagement where you have multiple maniples.

[Taliesin]

Received Titandeath. Having gone through it and being only interested in fluff and artwork, as I am, it's a bit disappointing.

 

Pros:

 

• Fantastic artwork.
• What fluff there is on legions and Beta Garmon background is interesting

Cons: 

 

• Just not much fluff there at all, it feels short. I was hoping it wouldn't be so light on narrative
• The narrative missions in the book ( about 6 of them) are again very much for gamers, and extremely light on story

[Sherrypie]

Yeah, it is very much a gaming supplement. On that front it's great, reasonably priced and light to carry. Personally I prefer the fluff to imply rather than overexplain, so the book felt better in that regard too when compared to current 40k literature, for an example. Little names, times and places here and there, like you'd have in a grand scale overview of a military campaign. I'm fond of the "open door" method GW has used for decades (dropping stuff in the fluff without any seeming use and having other authors pick it up years later), they should also do it more often nowadays.

 

I'm sure they'll detail things out more exactly in the future, since many Legios are going to appear time and time again through the upcoming books. Instead of frontloading everything in this book, they can build it up as they go.

[splayedpaintbrush]

Does any one else wish that the coloured titan legio schemes were on a white/pale background rather than the blue background, or are my eyes just getting old?

[Rik Lightstar]

Does any one else wish that the coloured titan legio schemes were on a white/pale background rather than the blue background, or are my eyes just getting old?

Me too (that doesn't exclude age however). What I'd really prefer is that the pages were less glossy so the colours are clearer.

 

Rik