zacret Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hi guys Im sitting and reading through the Vigilus campagn book as i am to take part of a campaign in the local gaming club. Because we are gonna play fluf armies and i dont have much painted Ravenwing or deathwing, i were trying to see if i could make a mainly primaris/standard greenwing force and on page 174 there is a part about the Indomiitus crusaders specialist detachment. Now from what i can see there should be no reason as to why a Dark Angel player wielding primars marins in his army could not use this specialist detachment? If this is true then im gonna consider trying it out as it does have some fun stuff that could be very fun to try out. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberC1 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I think the way that most people are interpreting it is that it's only for Codex: Space Marines detachments, so things out of that specific book, rather than intercessors / primaris out of Codex: Dark Angels / Blood Angels / etc. etc. Your mileage may vary with your gaming group though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Why should only be the Chapters from the original Codex be allowed to use the Special Detachment? It clearly says Space Marine detachments can be upgradet to the Indomitus Crusade. So ALL Space Marines, Including Dark Angels,Blood Angels,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 No they've made it clear it's for Space Marine Codex. We're Adeptus Astartes- Dark Angels Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 "Space Marine" is no proper Keyword so technical no one is a Space Marine;) They are all Adeptus Astartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 There is a Space Marine codex. Literally called Space Marines. SPACE MARINES UNITS In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Space Marines units’. This is shorthand for any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords. Note that other Space Marine Chapters, such as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves, deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. These Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section, and instead have their own rules. That is who it's for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Ok now i understand where this thinking comes from. And i have to admit you are right at some point. RAI it only works on Codex Space Marine RAW it works for everybody or nobody depends on the way you look at it^^ GW did it's usual and worded it pretty badly and missleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Ok now i understand where this thinking comes from. And i have to admit you are right at some point. RAI it only works on Codex Space Marine RAW it works for everybody or nobody depends on the way you look at it^^ GW did it's usual and worded it pretty badly and missleading. GW is nothing but great for starting debates ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 GW is nothing but great for starting debates ;) That's Right They wake the hobby Lawyer in all of us^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacret Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 There is a Space Marine codex. Literally called Space Marines. SPACE MARINES UNITS In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Space Marines units’. This is shorthand for any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords. Note that other Space Marine Chapters, such as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves, deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. These Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section, and instead have their own rules. That is who it's for. Ahh ok. Thanks for clerifying this. Until now the only thing i thought would not make it 100% okey for DA player to use this attachement, were the one rule which would give the detachement another Spacemarine chapter tactics. (only from codex::SM) Its a darn shame because i do think this detachment could bring more armies to include intercessors and incepters more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hantheman Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Yeah I agree. But I also think it's improtant they keep Dark Angels seperate from other space marines. And the ravenwing detachment is simply great in itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 The lack of clarity comes from the lines "In the rules described in this section" and "These Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section, and instead have their own rules." "in this section" There's nothing in that description that continues a definition of a "Space Marines Detachment" outside of the C:SM Codex or indicates it applies to any rules beyond "this section". GW really should have provided a portable definition for "Space Marines Detachment" that extended beyond "this section" either in C:SM or included it as a Keyword itself as a collection of keywords, or simply redefined it in the Vigilus book. The intent was most likely that it was intended to use the concept of a "Space Marine Detachment" from the Codex: Space Marines, and I would agree with anyone's view of that, however, I can see the other point that without a definition in Vigilus Defiant about what a "Space Marines Detachment" is, we can't inherently rely on a definition from another text that specifies "in this section" not once, but twice, about what it is referring to rules for. Additionally, per other people's responses (I haven't read all the M41/42 new books myself, such as Dark Imperium, only War of Secrets), there's not really a fluff reason why BA, DA, and SW Primaris wouldn't be able to use this Special Detachment too, because they were all mixed into the Indomitus Crusade as well, not retained separately from the other gene-lines - therefore they would have all learned to fight that way. This same discussion is already happening in the Blood Angels area as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 We should probably write an Email to GW for clarification on this. There is no reason why DA,BA and SW aren't allowed to use this. They where part of the Crusade in the Fluff so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Regardless it is allowed rules wise or not, you are playing fluff armies for fluffy play not a Tournament that strictly adheres to the rules. Ask the person running the campaign if they will allow you to use those rules for your Primaris. If so great. If not technically you can just use the rules for one of the other chapter traits for your Green painted marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Per the Vigilus FAQ, a BA, DA, SW, or DW detachment is not able to use the Indomitus Crusaders Special Detachment. They have stated that the Codex: Space Marines statement of a Space Marines Detachment is a definition that applies outside of that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.