Opinion on Post CA Kataphrons?

[DeStinyFiSh]

Interesting. How did the different loadouts (grav/plasma/arc) fare in direct comparison?

 

And what did you use for screening, the more resilient servitors or something else?

 

Plasma was the big winner for me thanks to reliably wounding the bigger mosnters like Trygon Prime, Old One Eye, Swarmlord and the likes. For 1 turn I used Elimination Volley and the new Stratagem for BS 2+, reroll 1 because of the Dominus. It was nasty and can only be topped by adding the Ryza Stratagem

Grav did a good job against Genestealers. Many shots wounding on 3s.

Can't exactly remember what the Breachers did tbh.

 

For Screening I used Jazzhands, Hoplites and Skitarii. Here is my list:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [115 PL, 1742pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Agripinaa

 

Specialist Detachment: Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

 

+ HQ +

 

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 92pts]: Phosphor Serpenta, Relic: Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, Volkite Blaster

. Warlord: Warlord Trait (CA): Master of Biosplicing

 

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Kataphron Breachers [16 PL, 180pts]

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

 

Kataphron Destroyers [20 PL, 306pts]

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

. Kataphron Destroyer: Heavy Grav-Cannon, Phosphor Blaster

 

Kataphron Destroyers [20 PL, 288pts]

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

 

+ Elites +

 

Corpuscarii Electro-Priests [6 PL, 140pts]: 10x Corpuscarii Electro-Priest

 

Cybernetica Datasmith [3 PL, 41pts]: Gamma Pistol, Power fist

 

Servitors [4 PL, 20pts]: 4x Servitor (Servo arm)

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Kastelan Robots [18 PL, 330pts]

. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster

. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster

. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster

. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

 

Kastelan Robots [18 PL, 315pts]

. Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, Kastelan Fists

. Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, Kastelan Fists

. Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, Kastelan Fists

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [22 PL, 255pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Agripinaa

 

+ HQ +

 

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

 

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger

. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

 

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger

. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

 

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger

. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle

 

+ Elites +

 

Secutarii Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite

. Hoplite Alpha: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield

 

++ Total: [137 PL, 1997pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

Before CA it was a pure Cult Mechanicus army. After CA I had enough points left to add a Skitarii Battalion for extra CP to spend on the Servitor Maniple.

[MajorNese]

Ah, good to hear.  Grav was a staple of my Astartes lists a year ago. Found the number of shots, wounding on 3s and degrading most saves to 5+ or 6+ very useful against even heavier infantry. Wounding T6+ is an issue though, which made it unreliable there.

 

With gravaphrons having 5 shots fixed, including some might be useful to mow down infantry across the board, if not using the Carl Kastelan Castle (or providing mobile units to support it). Plasma usually becomes less effective at that, once +1 BS becomes impossible (no CPs left/strat already used that round) - without overheating, grav is better against T4-5, especially multiwound models. Maybe mix some destroyer squads, and remove the models first that will be less efficient from that point on (killed all infantry, let plasma stay. killed all big stuff, let grav stay).

 

And at breachers down in points, you now get 3,5 breachers for every CC kastelan, making them an option for a more stable speedbump/moving wall, while taking fire away from the destroyers (by providing an almost identical target profile).

[Charlo]

By the Omnissiah, you get a LOT in a list now and Kataphron are just so cheap. Especially when you can buff & recycle them?! Those 18 Kataphron are only 774 points!!!

 

Agripinaa got a huge buff it seems and is pretty damned usable now. I love the Cawl Wall but branching out seems very valid these days, especially considering the Kataphon are surprisingly mobile too.

[domsto]

I am now thinking on building a Kataphrons heavy List.

With all this Ideas i read in here i think this would be a great List.

Maybe a Ryza Plasma Gunline with some Agripinaa Breachers as Screen.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I thing pre CA the Agripinaa list was 1999, after CA it was about 1650. That was a solid drop I would say...

 

Also the Servitors are eating CP like candy, 2 Battalions are a minimum I would say for the Servitor Maniple, 5++, extra BS, Ryza and Agripinaa Strats etc...

[Charlo]

It's not like double Batallion is hard though!

 

The only issue is the total uselessness of Enginseers and the fact they basically eat up the points that everything dropped by.

 

Maybe our new (hopefully HQ) techpriest can help...

[MajorNese]

Maybe a Ryza Plasma Gunline with some Agripinaa Breachers as Screen.

Considering the number of shots of grav destroyers, using them as Agripinaa with flamers might be quite devastating in terms of overwatch (1,3 grav hits per model with dominus nearby, +d6 flamer hits). Keeping it down to 6 models would still enable the recycling stratagem - whittle down the charging opponents, let them eat overwatch and quite-not-kill the destroyers, then recycle. Suddenly the former chargers are out in the open (and maybe get charged from the second rank units) while the gravs just roll onto the board and resume shooting.

[Charlo]

 

Maybe a Ryza Plasma Gunline with some Agripinaa Breachers as Screen.

Considering the number of shots of grav destroyers, using them as Agripinaa with flamers might be quite devastating in terms of overwatch (1,3 grav hits per model with dominus nearby, +d6 flamer hits). Keeping it down to 6 models would still enable the recycling stratagem - whittle down the charging opponents, let them eat overwatch and quite-not-kill the destroyers, then recycle. Suddenly the former chargers are out in the open (and maybe get charged from the second rank units) while the gravs just roll onto the board and resume shooting.

 

God that is so Ad Mech it hurts. I love it. Endless wall of Servitors to chew through for your opponent.

[MajorNese]

 

God that is so Ad Mech it hurts. I love it. Endless wall of Servitors to chew through for your opponent.

Well, it would be a concept that actually works ingame like the fluff description of agripinaa. Repair/reconstruct the servitor units that are worth the effort, sacrifice them to wipe out the enemy in the most effective way possible, then send in the next wave. Well done GW, few people ever considered that forge world until now.

[Suzuteo]

Honestly, I would sooner take Terminator allies than rely on Breachers for a screen. Servitors themselves are actually quite decent now though.

[Frostglaive]

Do you have to pay the points for reinforcements to do the Agripiina stratagem?

[lash144]

Do you have to pay the points for reinforcements to do the Agripiina stratagem?

Nope

[Gaz1858]

Having ised a 5 man unit of destroyers recently I think its go big or go home with these guys.

 

One squad like I took did nothing and died every game in a 3 game tourney. Youd need to build your force around 2 or 3 big units for them to be really useable.

[Vel'Cona]

Having ised a 5 man unit of destroyers recently I think its go big or go home with these guys.

 

One squad like I took did nothing and died every game in a 3 game tourney. Youd need to build your force around 2 or 3 big units for them to be really useable.

 

Sounds like not much has changed, then.  What a shame.

[Prot]

Having ised a 5 man unit of destroyers recently I think its go big or go home with these guys.

 

One squad like I took did nothing and died every game in a 3 game tourney. Youd need to build your force around 2 or 3 big units for them to be really useable.

 

I kind of agree. I'm just not sure the size.

 

Every game I've lost mine without shooting unless I go first or am on a table with some sense of complete cover (can't draw LoS).

 

So tonight is another game. I will be fielding a 6 man squad. I want to use one larger squad to maximize  buffs. BUT instead of going up to multiple squads, I'm taking my (admittedly not optimized) Knights with the AdMech consisting of a Preceptor and two Armigers. The point being that between the Knights/Armigers, Kastelans, and Kataphrons..... my opponent can't seriously ignore all of that.

 

At the same time I only use a 4 man servitor squad so hiding them is paramount. *luckily on 25mm bases it is possible.

 

The thing that scares me about this list development; no Sydonians, no Priests (I love my priests) and minimal Vanguard/Rangers mean a much smaller footprint than I'm used to. That being said Vanguard/Rangers just don't get me the mileage I think they should at their points. But I will miss the push back, the close combat especially from the walkers.

[Mr. Funktastic]

I rolled out 6 Ryza Plasma Destroyers in a game and they took down a Leviathan Dreadnought in a single turn. They then got focused down by 2 twin autocannon Venerable Dreadnoughts and Hurricane Bolters from 2 Dark Talons afterward till there was 1 Destroyer left, I brought 1 back my next turn and they both killed 6 Hellblasters. They definitely hit hard and anything they shooting is probably going to die so I can expect them to get focused down very early if your opponent knows how dangerous they are. Guess that's all the more reason to go all in on threat saturation and give them other juicy targets (Knights, Dragoons, Dunecrawlers, Kastelans, etc.). Overall though the point drops were sorely needed so I think they're very usable now as long as you can give them a +1 to hit whether it's from Noospheric Mindlock, Elimination Volley, or both. The 4+ armor save does them no favors though so they'll appreciate any kind of durability buff you can give them (Enhanced Bionics, Shroudpsalm, Shroud Protocols from Stygies VIII, Acquisition at Any Cost).

[DanPesci]

Ran 6 breachers last night using stygies (and using shroudsalm in turn 1 & 2).

 

2+/5++ with -1 to hit is hard to shift and the arc rifles/hydraulic claws can do work.

 

They had 3 left (2 brought back) at the end of the game (opponent conceded turn 3), and had managed to one shot a venerable dreadnought....which would have been impressive on its own..had it not then exploded, doing about 15 mortal wounds to surrounding squads/azrael/ezekiel.

 

Will probably try and fit a second unit in for next game.

[Prot]

Good for you for running Breachers successfully. I can’t do it yet as I just seem to almost need the plasma.

 

I notice I’m one of the few playing this as Mars but I would like to say the elimination volley combined with Cawl is good. Cawl can’t take the VIgilus trait but it dies give him a bit of freedom to help out elsewhere or even retain Warlord 9” Aura.

 

I’m still,trying to finish my second set of three Destroyers but would love to try breachers one day. But I have to admit with the price reduction in punchy bots I’m not sure if I have a place for Breachers.

[DanPesci]

Good for you for running Breachers successfully. I can’t do it yet as I just seem to almost need the plasma.

 

I notice I’m one of the few playing this as Mars but I would like to say the elimination volley combined with Cawl is good. Cawl can’t take the VIgilus trait but it dies give him a bit of freedom to help out elsewhere or even retain Warlord 9” Aura.

 

I’m still,trying to finish my second set of three Destroyers but would love to try breachers one day. But I have to admit with the price reduction in punchy bots I’m not sure if I have a place for Breachers.

 

Cheers!

Yeah ive never run mars, so my list is probably fairly different setup.

 

Weirdly enough, ive never had any luck whatsoever with punchy bots, and my breachers managed some cc kills last game.

 

I think punchy bots are an 'obvious' cc threat, whereas I see breachers as a useful counterpunch that someone may underestimate if they land elites near my lines.

 

Stuck up my list in the army list section here if you fancy a gander....

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353274-2k-stygies-list-using-new-servitor-detachment/

[Prot]

I'll check out the list.... the Breachers are a cool idea, and I'd love to run them. My next game I'm going back to Boxing Bots because I decided to drop Knights for a while. But I agree... they get focused down pretty hard and fast as they are as obvious as a barn running straight at you.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Lately, I've been running 9 Breachers and 9 Grav Destroyers in my Lucius lists, the current version of which fills it out with a Knight Crusader, a pair of Armigers, and a handful of Skitarii.

I've run the Breachers in a single 9-man unit as well as groups of 3, and I have found that I prefer the latter; however, I have only run the Destroyers as a 9-man unit for stratagem efficiency.  I am tempted to buy another box and run 2 units of 6 Breachers.

Between Shroudpsalm and the Lucius trait, my Breachers shrug off anything worse than -2 AP, and they tend to be low enough of a priority target that they avoid most heavier firepower.  I run with the Prime Hermeticon WLT, and that really cranks up their combat ability.

As for the Destroyers, my gaming group hasn't adopted the current beta Deep Strike rules (usually using the old 'deployment zone' beta), so I have been able to use the Lucius Deep Strike to keep them protected until my turn. I run pure Grav because it's safe, a reliable five shots, and it's one fewer time I need to pick up and roll dice.

I don't think my gaming group is too competitive, though, and I haven't really felt the need for a dedicated screen - the Breachers do the job well enough.

 

Also, a bit off-topic, but going Kataphron-heavy has helped me enjoy playing AdMech.  Back when I only had 3 and relied more on Onagers and robots for my lists, I was not really enjoying playing AdMech and was seriously considering parting with them.  Now that I've gone with a more Kataphron-centric build, my opinion of the army as a whole has drastically shifted, and I look forward to every game with them.

[Charlo]

I think when running both breachers and destroyers, the units 3x3 and 9 respectively make a lot of sense - those breachers aren't really there to be buffed by strats/ reapirs and are tanky enough to survive. Then you can focus the strats/ repairs on the 9 Guns a'firin' :P

[Prot]

I had a crazy game against Tau with the AdMech and the Vigilus servitor maniple. Oddly enough I could not touch the dual Riptides with the Destrywith a 3+ invuln. This was one odd game where I could not get results from the squad or detachment.

[SydonianDragoon404]

You don't shoot the Riptides, you try to outlast them. It is literally useless to try to kill them. Only target them if you have nothing else to shoot at. If the riptides lose their markerlight/character support they will deal significantly less damage. 

 

It's just a fact of facing them from a competitive standpoint. You will not kill them. 

 

This strategy has worked out twice for me. Once when I was playing a Mars double vigilus battalion (using both detachments), and once when I was playing space marines as well. I won the game where I was using admech, and the game I used space marines was before the "acceptable losses" rule, if that had been in play I would have won as I was ahead on points at turn 7 and was just barely tabled.