I lurk too much and it annoys me

[Dragonlover]

So I'm a habitual lurker. I chuck out the odd like, but I'm a passive consumer of the forum for 75% of the year and I feel like that should change.

 

One problem.

 

I have no idea how to change that, beyond the obvious of posting more. Trouble is, I'm not really here to essentially +1 but with more words, there's only so many times I can post in someones plog that their stuff looks cool, and my meta is so far removed from the Internet Assumed Meta any tactical advice I gave would be completely irrelevant. Oh, and I get demoralised about updating my own plogs because my stuff sits firmly on the 'slightly above average' line so very few people comment on it (which is fine, just not helpful from a personal point of view)

 

So yeah, I'm a little bit lost on how to proceed. Any tips?

 

Dragonlover

[Panzer]

I rarely post in plogs as well. I can only speak for myself but for me it always starts out with trying to help people until I get comfortable in the forum community and then I automatically post more in other kind of threads as well.

 

What I heavily dislike are people that do only posts that are basically just "omg that's so cool great job do more of that <3 <3 xoxo" and little else. It just feels shallow (note: only if the person posts regularly of course). Of course that's also partly due my personality since I tend to be more on the critcal side and even if I absolutely love something I always automatically also think about the negatives and can't help to mention both sides since I always try to give a complete picture.

 

I took a look at your plogs and I think what would help a lot would be buying a photobox to improve the picture quality. Grainy pictures are just not fun to look at so even if the model itself is great people might be less interested in posting in those threads.

[RWJP]

As a fellow habitual lurker I'll pose a question: Why do you think it should change?

Afterall, there actually isn't anything wrong with lurking and consuming content. 

(Also worth noting that you certainly aren't as much of a lurker as some... For example you've been here 4 years less than me, but have posted 8 time as much as I have!)

[Dragonlover]

I took a look at your plogs and I think what would help a lot would be buying a photobox to improve the picture quality. Grainy pictures are just not fun to look at so even if the model itself is great people might be less interested in posting in those threads.

 

A fair comment, and something I've put some thought into doing once money isn't quite so tight.

 

As a fellow habitual lurker I'll pose a question: Why do you think it should change?

 

Afterall, there actually isn't anything wrong with lurking and consuming content. 

 

(Also worth noting that you certainly aren't as much of a lurker as some... For example you've been here 4 years less than me, but have posted 8 time as much as I have!)

 

Because I want to be better forum member, especially since being raised to mod-dom last year. Also I'd say 85% of those posts are from an ETL, the event guaranteed to make me jabber like a lunatic because everyone's stuff is in one place.

 

Dragonlover

[MARK0SIAN]

Don’t assume that because your meta is not the usual one that you can’t add any value to the conversation. It’s always good to get a different perspective, especially if it’s from a non-competitive stand point. I love to play fun lists so if someone can suggest tactics or tips that are fun but not very competitive then that’s great. Just preface with a quick explanation that it’s a fun suggestion not a competitive one and no one will jump down your throat to correct you on why it might not be a great idea :)

[Grotsmasha]

This exact reason is why I'm running the 12 Months of Hobby Challenge. As well as helping me to keep motivated and keep me hobbying, it will stop my habit of lurking. I will have to engage, I will have to comment. Doing it for 12 months, I'm hoping, will break the lurking habits I have developed.

[Rob P]

The Black Library forum is pretty good for lore and other discussions - it's quite easy to chip in there without a huge amount of prerequisite knowledge.

 

Another thing to do is take a look at the posts with no replies (check the date first so you're not responding to something ancient!) because there is nothing more frustrating than posting something and it passing by unacknowledged. It will make someone's day.

[Prot]

A lot of the time I will see a posted picture of a fig or something and I’ll find something I like about it and comment. Contrary to some other comments here I find tossing a simple, heartfelt compliment can go a long way for a frater.

 

Real content is super difficult for frater to submit. There’s tons of ‘you got this rule wrong’ and ‘I don’t like GWs take on <insert peeve of the week>”. So when someone has gone the great length of taking a picture, uploading it, or writing an idea out or strategy..... I like to take a moment to show appreciation for it because in my opinion it drives the forum. Otherwise all we have is rules, rumours and complaints.

 

For me it’s more of a time factor. I like to see what people are doing. I just wish I had more time but quite often I feel people understand that and the simplest compliment or comment can mean a lot.

[Doghouse]

I think the best way is to participate in one of the forum mini-comps for starters.

 

One of the biggest problems in posting projects is that it can be hard to get any response other than that looks great. I find myself in that boat at times, I've seen thousands and thousands of models on forums over the years and it can be hard to add constructive criticism unless someone directly asks for it.

 

Now I will be completely and painfully honest here, (I am cringing as I write this) I really, genuinely don't think I am that amazing at making stuff and painting in the slightest. I often find myself sat here thinking this is utterly bewildering and how on earth did I get here? It's an awkward subject for me to address to be honest.

I find it really weird that the name Doghouse is so well known at times when no one really knows me in real life and I don't really know any hobbyists outside of forums these days or have any friends that still play or paint. It's utterly surreal to me but completely amazing when someone says I inspired them to try something new.

 

The thing is I initially posted stuff because I loved the hobby from a very young age and the internet gave me a chance to share all these crazy ideas with like minded people all over the world rather than it just being me sat on my own in my spare room after my gaming group fell apart. I wasn't overly worried that what I do wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea and the more I posted the more I got to work with other people helping them with their projects and giving lore advice. I got to bounce ideas off people and inspire some along the way to try new stuff, I genuinely can say I have worked with thousands of people over the last two decades I would never have met had it not been especially for the likes of the B&C.

 

Thing is, I would have missed out on all that if I had just watched in silence.

 

It's not always the master painters and modellers that need the comments, some times a little genuine "wow that is cool" or "I like what you did but have you tried x" can really help inspire someone to carry on and learn. My advice would be that if you don't feel up to posting your own stuff get involved with other people's projects. I think it is very easy to hit the like button and move on when even the smallest comment can really make someone's day. More importantly I think we have all been there when we just run out of incentive, a project stalls and you just start to lose interest. Adding a note of encouragement really does go a long way, it's a great feeling when you post a picture and log in the following day to see people following your progress. 

 

The flip side of this is people will begin to recognise your name and your support, they will see when you post projects and check yours out in return and it just gets easier as time goes on. 

[Gederas]

I rarely post in plogs as well. I can only speak for myself but for me it always starts out with trying to help people until I get comfortable in the forum community and then I automatically post more in other kind of threads as well.

 

What I heavily dislike are people that do only posts that are basically just "omg that's so cool great job do more of that <3 <3 xoxo" and little else. It just feels shallow (note: only if the person posts regularly of course). Of course that's also partly due my personality since I tend to be more on the critcal side and even if I absolutely love something I always automatically also think about the negatives and can't help to mention both sides since I always try to give a complete picture.

 

A lot of the time I will see a posted picture of a fig or something and I’ll find something I like about it and comment. Contrary to some other comments here I find tossing a simple, heartfelt compliment can go a long way for a frater.

 

Real content is super difficult for frater to submit. There’s tons of ‘you got this rule wrong’ and ‘I don’t like GWs take on <insert peeve of the week>”. So when someone has gone the great length of taking a picture, uploading it, or writing an idea out or strategy..... I like to take a moment to show appreciation for it because in my opinion it drives the forum. Otherwise all we have is rules, rumours and complaints.

 

For me it’s more of a time factor. I like to see what people are doing. I just wish I had more time but quite often I feel people understand that and the simplest compliment or comment can mean a lot.

Both of you make very good points. Like, my issue with my habitual lurking is really just lack of responses. Especially what you said Prot. Going through the effort to take a picture, crop it, and then upload it onto here and getting no response other than "-Frater Liked this post-" is kind of.... Deflating in a way? Like, if I wanted no comments/critiques and only wanted likes, I'd solely post to Facebook

 

Like, I hate to sound whiney, but for example, my WIP log can go with just me posting three to four times in a row before anyone else responds.... That's kind of disheartening for me, and kills my enthusiasm at times.

 

Especially because, in my opinion, the whole point of a WIP log is to get people's ideas/feedback on your stuff.

 

This exact reason is why I'm running the 12 Months of Hobby Challenge. As well as helping me to keep motivated and keep me hobbying, it will stop my habit of lurking. I will have to engage, I will have to comment. Doing it for 12 months, I'm hoping, will break the lurking habits I have developed.

Hmm.... I think you might be onto something with that thing Grotsmasha.

 

 

Edited because of the above:

I think the best way is to participate in one of the forum mini-comps for starters.

 

One of the biggest problems in posting projects is that it can be hard to get any response other than that looks great. I find myself in that boat at times, I've seen thousands and thousands of models on forums over the years and it can be hard to add constructive criticism unless someone directly asks for it.

 

Now I will be completely and painfully honest here, (I am cringing as I write this) I really, genuinely don't think I am that amazing at making stuff and painting in the slightest. I often find myself sat here thinking this is utterly bewildering and how on earth did I get here? It's an awkward subject for me to address to be honest.

I find it really weird that the name Doghouse is so well known at times when no one really knows me in real life and I don't really know any hobbyists outside of forums these days or have any friends that still play or paint. It's utterly surreal to me but completely amazing when someone says I inspired them to try something new.

 

The thing is I initially posted stuff because I loved the hobby from a very young age and the internet gave me a chance to share all these crazy ideas with like minded people all over the world rather than it just being me sat on my own in my spare room after my gaming group fell apart. I wasn't overly worried that what I do wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea and the more I posted the more I got to work with other people helping them with their projects and giving lore advice. I got to bounce ideas off people and inspire some along the way to try new stuff, I genuinely can say I have worked with thousands of people over the last two decades I would never have met had it not been especially for the likes of the B&C.

 

Thing is, I would have missed out on all that if I had just watched in silence.

 

It's not always the master painters and modellers that need the comments, some times a little genuine "wow that is cool" or "I like what you did but have you tried x" can really help inspire someone to carry on and learn. My advice would be that if you don't feel up to posting your own stuff get involved with other people's projects. I think it is very easy to hit the like button and move on when even the smallest comment can really make someone's day. More importantly I think we have all been there when we just run out of incentive, a project stalls and you just start to lose interest. Adding a note of encouragement really does go a long way, it's a great feeling when you post a picture and log in the following day to see people following your progress. 

 

The flip side of this is people will begin to recognise your name and your support, they will see when you post projects and check yours out in return and it just gets easier as time goes on. 

You raise a lot of good points.

 

Side note: I think the reason why your name is well-known is because of your True-Scaling Tutorial. Like, either you did that method before anyone, or you were the first one to make a tutorial for it. Hell, I saw someone call his truescale marines "Doghouse Marines" before I ever heard of Bolter & Chainsword. :lol:

[Doghouse]

Like, I hate to sound whiney, but for example, my WIP log can go with just me posting three to four times in a row before anyone else responds.... That's kind of disheartening for me, and kills my enthusiasm at times.

 

Especially because, in my opinion, the whole point of a WIP log is to get people's ideas/feedback on your stuff.

 

 

Nah what you are describing is perfectly natural mate, it's not whiney at all. If it helps any keep an eye on the number of views, tons of people will drop in to look but not always say anything. It's another indicator that people are still watching.

[plastic_slug]

I'd say you can't let it bother you too much. I'm just not much of a talker, here, or in real life. For comparison, I've been on here almost 14 years now, and this is only my 59th post....

[Kinstryfe]

Like you I lurked for a really long time before actually really posting anything, and one day I just sort of took the plunge, started trying to add to some conversations, and now I don't shut up half the time. A lot of the time it's just to post that I think something looks awesome, but I think it's important for people to know that their work is nice and that it's appreciated by the rest of the forum, even if that's all I'm really posting. Running my own plog lately, I know that it's always nice to get kind words from anonymous people on the internet because, well, this is the internet. It's really easy for people to share vitriol and I figure if someone takes the time to compliment someone's work instead of being a jerk then I must be doing something right. The funny thing is that this is making me more likely to comment when I see other people posting great work, so it's a nice circle of support.

 

If you are having trouble jumping in, maybe focus on the subforums you're most familiar with? I started chiming up in the renegades and heretics forum first when I was painting renegade guard, then branched out from there as new projects grew. I also started trying to reach out to the subforums I don't know much about because some of them aren't as well trafficed and I hate seeing someone ask for help and not receive it.

[Panzer]

Just to clarify because I think it could have been miaunderstood.

I'm not against positive feedback at all. I'm just against overly positive feedback and when is like 90% of the posts of a semi active user because then it's essentially just a 'like' that wants more attention.

[DuskRaider]

Set a modeling goal for yourself this year and start a thread to document it. It will not only get you more involved in the hobby but also the community and once others start giving advice or comments you'd be surprised how inspired you become. 

[Vykes]

There's a lot of really really good ideas here, and as a newer guy I can say I lurked for a fair bit well before I ever joined but it kinda snowballs from there.  It comes down to 'how much do you want to get involved'?  Because it's rarely a matter of whether another voice would add anything, even small deviations from one seemingly similar viewpoint might really change someone's perspective and bring them something fresh and unique.  So ones voice does have value if it's sincere.  Even just that one comment really can brighten someone's day.  I firmly believe that everyone really does matter, even a few individuals who act as a constant depressant in my otherwise picture perfect psyche*.  

 

Like others said, the whole internet meta is more or less like the word 'average', it's delightfully vague and kinda off base between expectations and what actually shows up.  Like average people, it's a Frankenstein monster that doesn't show up nearly as often as you'd expect in the wild.  And you still have large swathes of people that play rule of cool that might match up well from what others expect.  After all, metas evolve, but they can also act as case studies into other niche communities and evolve ideas beyond the typical 'netlist of the month club'.  It's sometimes just kinda cool to see what other hobbyists and gaming aficionados are thinking and dealing with across the globe**. It can always strike closer to home than one might realize. 

 

See all those posts above mine?  Read em, then READ 'EM again!  They are useful, mine is echoing that, but this is the 'me' portion where I get to talk about that subject that always makes introverts awkward: religious diatribes 'me'.  We're all here for a bunch of different reasons, and I know the "What the 'flying feather'*** am I doing here?!  Am I really doing this?" feeling of starting back up in a new community and figuring no one will know or care what I do.  And, more than that, not having a goal or a way to really 'break in' or back into a community after a sabbatical of silence, without feeling like a mustachioed shill saying, "He's right you know!"  So, ETL was on, and I said 'lets just do this and if it doesn't work, I know a liquor store and life literally can't get worse than having just failed on the internet'.  More over, I qualify all of my usual painting and stuff in the 'average-ish' category.  That's not making a value statement**** it's just a perspective that I think, but some people get something from that and that's great.  Even when I ask questions in WIP threads and get no answers, which totally is okay because I never wallow in gaming-deadlock due to being dramatically indecisive.  Just have fun with your hobby, share it with the rest of us, and it can't go wrong.  Just makin' friends in the anonanet, all chill is good.  

 

So, my advice'll be what's already gone on before: pick up Grotsmasha's 12 month of hobbying challenge an just join in.  Because it ain't about being the big golden demon painter, it's just getting back into the hobby groove with a bunch of fellow painters and gamers.  Hey, if it helps, if you do it I'll do it.  There we go, peer pressure group support.  Take it one forum/sub forum at a time and just get involved.  I picked the 30K crowd, because they understand the true meaning of pain and suffering. 

 

 

*Apply sarcasm liberally. 
**And apparently I sound and act a bit like an Aussie instead of a Canuck, go figure, eh?
***If anyone gets this, then I am simultaneously impressed and deeply disappointed in all of us. 
****How I conned my way into getting a painting award during ETL I don't undertand.  I seriously don't see it, we're all our own harshest critics.  Except sfPanzer, he's the harshest-est critic of all*****.
 

***** Joking of course. 

[Slasher956]

@dragonlover.... where in Essex are you?  anywhere near chelmsford?

 

As to not being a lurker, personally I mainly hang round the rules questions and either try and question peoples interpretation or try and find the quote that answers the question... you then naturally expand out into background from there...

[Azekai]

Post in the Inspirational Friday thread!

[Arkaniss]

There's nothing wrong with not posting a great deal. Aiming for quality of posts over quantity is a perfectly acceptable way of interacting on a forum. Some people like to talk/post more and that also is an absolutely fine way of interacting on a forum.

 

We are all different and the forum itself is a different thing for us all. We all bring something to this forum and you shouldn't feel that your way is wrong.

 

Now, if your feelings relate to your being a mod and how you feel you should act I'm afraid I can't offer anything there having never been a mod on a forum myself. At the end of the day this whole 40K thing we are in and by extension this forum are dependant on your satisfaction with the hobby itself. There's nothing wrong with a bout of quietness while you do other things or recharge your hobby-batteries. I myself have done just this over the last few months and I'm back into my painting with a vengeance this year (nothing 40K related though!)

 

So, for a TL:DR version - you're not doing anything wrong, it's up to you to interact with the forum how you want to :)

[El_Dicko]

I think doing little things here and there can help to break you in. For example, I only post on mobile and still struggle with pictures. Someone aksed for a size comparison and I happened to have those models sitting on my desk, so I took it as a chance to learn how to use the gallery and post pics of my stuff. I don’t have an ongoing thread yet but at least now I know how and that’s way more than I had going a year ago, and I’m also painting more than a year ago as well!

 

Edit to add: I was lurking over a year without an account, because I’d found KrautScientists WiP thread via google, which actually caused me to buy a Betraysl at Calth set and some chaos bits on eBay. So you never know who you’re quietly inspiring even off the board.

[Marshal Rohr]

Social Media has really impacted the way people use forums. Most people treat forums like another variant of facebook or Instagram, which are better platforms for modelling logs, but not great for lore discussions.

[Dragonlover]

Wow, I honestly wasn't expecting this many replies, so this is gonna be a general response to stuff.

 

Hobby challenge for the year/12 months thingy: I'm gonna go resurrect my plogs after I post this, might do the 12 months thing to get my Inq28 painting juices flowing. We'll see.

 

Inspirational Friday: Maybe.

 

Where am I: Westcliff, but my LGS is Gamerz Nexus in Hadleigh and I know we have people come down from Chelmsford cause I've sold them stuff. 40K is on 10:30-6 Sunday. Feel free to PM me for more details.

 

General stuff: I know there's nothing wrong with lurking, I just don't want to as much any more for the 9 months of the year we aren't in the ETL. I will say this though: you post in one of my plogs, even to say you think my entire creative output is hot trash, I'll post in yours. Just make sure there's a link in your sig so I can find it.

 

Dragonlover

[Doghouse]

That's the spirit mate! :tu:

[Domhnall]

I'm generally a lurker on here as well, taking in topics that will be of interest to me. Though I don't much delve further down that the news and general sub-forums, I will add something if I have something new to add. Which is a bit of a problem sometimes, as I am only here during the day in the UK (at work), when most topics have started and been commented on and somebody has already said what I wanted to say  So don't usually say anything, but I will spend the rest of the day telling myself how my answer would have been so much more truly epic, that I would have won the forum award for best post this year. 

 

As others have said, I'll join in too and if I do get to work on one of the many projects I've got lined up, maybe I will post something up showing what I'm doing... we'll see. Decisive action at it's best 

[No Foes Remain]

I'm the same as many here, I've been part of this board for coming up to 8 years and don't even have 2k posts (I don't have the smarts to do the math on that). My main thing is that I no longer collect as I don't have anywhere in my town to game, but I keep up to date with the hobby and the lore. That and if I don't feel like I have much to say then I won't add anything or if what I was going to say has already been said then I won't bother repeating it. Problably says more about me than anything else.

 

 

So you ain't alone. Chin up old bean.