Different Marine Types: Insights from Phil Kelly interview

[Robbienw]

Its highly likely primaris neophtyes would go though the same initial indoctrination and training as normal marines made by chapters, I agree on that.  But there is no need for them to be deployed as Scouts.  That is a classic marine unit type.  Chapters have been making their own Primaris for a while now, but they are deploying them still in the Primaris units as dictated by gulliman.  They aren't deploying them as Tactical or Devastator marines, so why would they deploy them as Scouts?  Either they stick to the Primaris unit archetypes or not.

 

The only Primaris marines to have been Scouts are those who have been upgraded from classic status :)

[PeteySödes]

Do you guys think it’s even remotely possible that the phase 3 marines could be processed marines in the same squad designations? With some of the backlash I’d be curious if this would be the case.

 

This way you may get primaris scouts or tacticals etc. I know a lot of people would be happy to just counts-as their army. Just something that hit my brain.

[Panzer]

I doubt it. I don't think we'll see any Primaris versions of existing units. At least not without bigger difference like between Inceptors/Reiver and Assault Marines or Intercessors and Tacticals.

[Lemondish]

It’s hard to say why there aren’t any Primaris Tech Marines but we don’t have anything solid to say exactly why.

I'm missing something as I'm not up on my lore at all, but I thought Cawl was considered something of a heretic for his new creations. Thus, the traditional method of sending marines to become inducted into the machine cult wouldn't be open to Primaris initially?

[Panzer]

 

It’s hard to say why there aren’t any Primaris Tech Marines but we don’t have anything solid to say exactly why.

I'm missing something as I'm not up on my lore at all, but I thought Cawl was considered something of a heretic for his new creations. Thus, the traditional method of sending marines to become inducted into the machine cult wouldn't be open to Primaris initially?

 

 

As always the AdMech is split. Many see his creations as tech-heresy but he also gained a lot of followers. You can't stay in the game for 10k years without good connections and even less stay in the game after revealing such a huge project. Especially when your aim is to become the big boss of Mars.

[Robbienw]

Do you guys think it’s even remotely possible that the phase 3 marines could be processed marines in the same squad designations? With some of the backlash I’d be curious if this would be the case.

 

This way you may get primaris scouts or tacticals etc. I know a lot of people would be happy to just counts-as their army. Just something that hit my brain.

At the moment it seems like GW don’t want to do this and keep Primaris units distinct and new for now.

 

Also, there haven’t been enough marines upgraded yet in the lore for it to be a thing. It’s only just started with Calgar being the first to do it. The only other upgraded example so far being the Mentor marine in Spears of The Emperor who did it in desperate circumstances to overcome being crippled by the enemy.

 

Could change in future of course if GW decided eventually they wanted to go that way and made the process easier in the fluff.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Anyone else think it's a bit mad that we're, what, nearly 2 years into Primaris being a thing and really basic questions about them are still unanswered? We still lack concrete answers to things like Primaris recruitment/Scout service (as demonstrated in this thread) and how pure Primaris Chapters are meant to work. Let alone the apparent lack of 'veteran' Primaris despite the time skip, which would give the first wave a solid combat career by 'regular' Marine standards. Call me an unpleasable pessimist, but the world building around Primaris still seems horrifically shallow and phoned in.

[Panzer]

To be fair it's been a long time where GW was mainly focussing on updating every faction for 8th edition. Not much time inbetween to build up the Primaris lore without seriously lowering the quality or overwhelming their customers with releases. They could have and probably should have answered a few more things by now but I'm perfectly fine with them doing it slowly.

[Robbienw]

I think they have an extended timetable for primaris introduction and development in the lore, and primaris fans will have to be patient.

 

Some of it they are clearly leaving explanations until they have got more models out, like Primaris chapter composition.

 

Other parts don't need anymore explanation really.  Primaris recruitment can be done by chapters from their normal recruitment stock.  Whichever ones are chosen to be primaris can then be indoctrinated into the chapter and made into one, then trained in Primaris warfare the way Cawl has specified.  No need for any further exposition on that is there?  There is no need for them to be Scouts, as they are different from normal marines, thus they are trained differently.  People keep expecting them to fit back into the normal marine perspective that's the problem.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

[Panzer]

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

 

^this as well. T'au for example don't have nearly as detailed explanations for anything unlike Marines.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

 

^this as well. T'au for example don't have nearly as detailed explanations for anything unlike Marines.

 

Eh, I don't think that's really a fair summation of my position. The plea isn't for fluff as voluminous as what we already have for Old Marines, it's for something, at least a skeleton that can be filled in later, instead of just an empty title and 'fluff to be filled in later' sign. Tau launched with some world-building. The relationship between the Castes, Fire Caste training/ranks/career progression etc. were all explained. You could immediately get a reasonable grip on what the Tau were from the moment they arrived on the scene. I don't think you can say the same for Primaris (the amount of info the Tau launched with would be a major improvement over what we've had thus far). I'm not asking for the moon here. A paragraph or two in the Marine dex laying out how Primaris recruitment/training differs from that of Old Marines would have been sufficient for that issue. A firm answer on whether Primaris serve as Scouts, and if not why not. It was really disheartening how little new fluff was in the 8th ed Marine dex, given that Marines were/are undergoing the largest fluff shift they've seen since RT times.

 

If GW aren't ready to explore the natural fallout from the timeskip (which would include things like veteran Primaris), they could have just set 8th before the timeskip, at the start of the Indomitus Crusade. If they aren't willing to release at least the basics of how a Primaris Chapter is organised and operates, they could have not introduced the concept of Primaris-only Chapters when they did, keeping them as augments for the extant Chapters until GW get their ducks in a row. But they chose not to do these things. Which is what kinda baffles me. We're just left with new fluff that's really unsatisfyingly shallow from a world-building perspective (unless there's some major explanatory works out there I've missed), and a real step down from what the studio used to deliver.

[Panzer]

 

 

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

 

 

^this as well. T'au for example don't have nearly as detailed explanations for anything unlike Marines.

Eh, I don't think that's really a fair summation of my position. The plea isn't for fluff as voluminous as what we already have for Old Marines, it's for something, at least a skeleton that can be filled in later, instead of just an empty title and 'fluff to be filled in later' sign. Tau launched with some world-building. The relationship between the Castes, Fire Caste training/ranks/career progression etc. were all explained. You could immediately get a reasonable grip on what the Tau were from the moment they arrived on the scene. I don't think you can say the same for Primaris (the amount of info the Tau launched with would be a major improvement over what we've had thus far). I'm not asking for the moon here. A paragraph or two in the Marine dex laying out how Primaris recruitment/training differs from that of Old Marines would have been sufficient for that issue. A firm answer on whether Primaris serve as Scouts, and if not why not. It was really disheartening how little new fluff was in the 8th ed Marine dex, given that Marines were/are undergoing the largest fluff shift they've seen since RT times.

 

If GW aren't ready to explore the natural fallout from the timeskip (which would include things like veteran Primaris), they could have just set 8th before the timeskip, at the start of the Indomitus Crusade. If they aren't willing to release at least the basics of how a Primaris Chapter is organised and operates, they could have not introduced the concept of Primaris-only Chapters when they did, keeping them as augments for the extant Chapters until GW get their ducks in a row. But they chose not to do these things. Which is what kinda baffles me. We're just left with new fluff that's really unsatisfyingly shallow from a world-building perspective (unless there's some major explanatory works out there I've missed), and a real step down from what the studio used to deliver.

Uhm could you be mistaking Primaris for something they aren't? Almost every background info we got about regular Marines also applies to Primaris. There are only a few blank spots that need to get filled (Scouts and Techmarines for example). That's already a ton of informations and way more than just a skeleton.

 

As for how Primaris chapters are organised ... we have no reason to believe it's different to regular chapters untill GW says otherwise just like it's the case for any other no-name chapter.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Except for that whole pesky 1st Company since, you know, there are no veteran Primaris squad types.

[Panzer]

Except for that whole pesky 1st Company since, you know, there are no veteran Primaris squad types.

Yeah as I said a few blanks. However we know there are at least some veterans now thanks to the Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment and the new UM Primaris bodyguards. The lack of veterans is more likely than not just because GW didn't get around to release veteran models yet.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Uhm could you be mistaking Primaris for something they aren't? Almost every background info we got about regular Marines also applies to Primaris. There are only a few blank spots that need to get filled (Scouts and Techmarines for example). That's already a ton of informations and way more than just a skeleton.

 

Primaris are something new. Yes they are still 'Space Marines' but they are self evidently different from Old Marines, otherwise the entire   storm would've been avoided. But those differences don't seem to have been addressed. How does Primaris recruitment differ from that of Old Marines (especially pertinent if Primaris don't have a 'Scout phase')? Why can't/don't Primaris serve in the 1st Company (but can be Captains/Lieutenants, especially weird for the SW, given their different command structure)? Are Primaris a complete paradigm shift for the Imperium, or an upgrade for the Chapters akin to a better boltgun or the Stormhawk Interceptor? Because the fluff is telling us the former, but the lack of details provided imo fits better with the latter.

 

 

As for how Primaris chapters are organised ... we have no reason to believe it's different to regular chapters untill GW says otherwise just like it's the case for any other no-name chapter.

Except that doesn't work. There are just too many gaps. What's in a Primaris 1st as they lack Vets? How does the 10th work? Is it still the 'recruit training company' with a mix of Primaris squads, or is it where all the Reivers live? Where are green Primaris assigned? Do Primaris have a specific rotation through the squad types with experience like regular Marines? Is every tank in the Chapter a Repulsor? Do they employ other Dreadnought chassis for heroes they don't want to burn out in a Redemptor (as that can be a lot of wisdom and experience to throw away)? What does a Primaris Chapter do when a normal Marine force would conduct a Drop Pod Assault? A Primaris-only Chapter just doesn't add up as a functional Space Marine force given the current state of the Primaris. Hence why it was weird the concept was introduced so long before the groundwork was ready, leaving us with fluff is severely lacking and overall just feels 'empty'. Like I said initially, I'm surprised that the Primaris are still so bare bones, so long after their introduction.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

 

 

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

 

^this as well. T'au for example don't have nearly as detailed explanations for anything unlike Marines.

Eh, I don't think that's really a fair summation of my position. The plea isn't for fluff as voluminous as what we already have for Old Marines, it's for something, at least a skeleton that can be filled in later, instead of just an empty title and 'fluff to be filled in later' sign. Tau launched with some world-building. The relationship between the Castes, Fire Caste training/ranks/career progression etc. were all explained. You could immediately get a reasonable grip on what the Tau were from the moment they arrived on the scene. I don't think you can say the same for Primaris (the amount of info the Tau launched with would be a major improvement over what we've had thus far). I'm not asking for the moon here. A paragraph or two in the Marine dex laying out how Primaris recruitment/training differs from that of Old Marines would have been sufficient for that issue. A firm answer on whether Primaris serve as Scouts, and if not why not. It was really disheartening how little new fluff was in the 8th ed Marine dex, given that Marines were/are undergoing the largest fluff shift they've seen since RT times.

 

If GW aren't ready to explore the natural fallout from the timeskip (which would include things like veteran Primaris), they could have just set 8th before the timeskip, at the start of the Indomitus Crusade. If they aren't willing to release at least the basics of how a Primaris Chapter is organised and operates, they could have not introduced the concept of Primaris-only Chapters when they did, keeping them as augments for the extant Chapters until GW get their ducks in a row. But they chose not to do these things. Which is what kinda baffles me. We're just left with new fluff that's really unsatisfyingly shallow from a world-building perspective (unless there's some major explanatory works out there I've missed), and a real step down from what the studio used to deliver.

Uhm could you be mistaking Primaris for something they aren't? Almost every background info we got about regular Marines also applies to Primaris. There are only a few blank spots that need to get filled (Scouts and Techmarines for example). That's already a ton of informations and way more than just a skeleton.

 

As for how Primaris chapters are organised ... we have no reason to believe it's different to regular chapters untill GW says otherwise just like it's the case for any other no-name chapter.

 

 

I enjoyed the interview with Phil Kelly. There were not a lot or revelations, although it did confirm that turning Old Marines into Primaris Marines is a dicey business with odds of success (61%ish) that give pause to the average chapter master when considering requests for the transformation...…

 

    "Sorry Brother Lunkhead, cool Mk X armour and a shinny new bolt rifle are not good enough reasons for me to risk you on the operating table.                 Request denied!"

 

I don't think Brother Leif is mistaking Primaris for something they are not. I think  (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this Brother Leif) he's just expressing the frustration I'm sure many feel with the gaps in info we have for the Primaris which would include chapter structure of a Primaris only Space Marine Chapter. To be fair, there are indeed differences between Old Marines and Primaris that make this far from a black and white issue.

 

Just a quick glance at a conventional chapter, you have Terminators on the left and scouts on the right and we don't really have that with Primaris (at least not yet)….. Oh sure we have Aggressors (Terminatorish) and Reivers (Scoutish) but those aren't quite the same and they don't necessarily fit into a chapter structure the same  way either. We also don't have the range of weapons and vehicles (at least not yet) for Primaris that give a conventional chapter the width and breath of flexibility it enjoys today. But Primaris still pack a punch, and a few chapters of them would definitely be an asset to the Imperium.

 

I'm sure a lot of questions will be answered in the next Space Marine codex, which from what I understand is not too far off. Of coarse, I'm also quite confident that a lot of questions won't be answered too In the mean time, brothers and sisters, don't be put off creating your own Primaris chapters or mixed chapters if you are chomping at the bit to do so. You've got some troops, some officers, some vehicles (true, some are just on paper), some basic info from GW, and a whole lot of imagination. Your army can be tweaked with new structure and bling as time goes on. Just like Primaris, Old Marines were once new, and I'm sure many a gaming vet faced similar challenges as we do today. Sure, Primaris (and even Old Marines) don't shine so much right now in the tournament arena, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun with them does it?..... and having fun is what it's all about right?...….. RIGHT???   

[Panzer]

 

 

Uhm could you be mistaking Primaris for something they aren't? Almost every background info we got about regular Marines also applies to Primaris. There are only a few blank spots that need to get filled (Scouts and Techmarines for example). That's already a ton of informations and way more than just a skeleton.

 

Primaris are something new. Yes they are still 'Space Marines' but they are self evidently different from Old Marines, otherwise the entire   storm would've been avoided. But those differences don't seem to have been addressed. How does Primaris recruitment differ from that of Old Marines (especially pertinent if Primaris don't have a 'Scout phase')? Why can't/don't Primaris serve in the 1st Company (but can be Captains/Lieutenants, especially weird for the SW, given their different command structure)? Are Primaris a complete paradigm shift for the Imperium, or an upgrade for the Chapters akin to a better boltgun or the Stormhawk Interceptor? Because the fluff is telling us the former, but the lack of details provided imo fits better with the latter.

 

 

As for how Primaris chapters are organised ... we have no reason to believe it's different to regular chapters untill GW says otherwise just like it's the case for any other no-name chapter.

Except that doesn't work. There are just too many gaps. What's in a Primaris 1st as they lack Vets? How does the 10th work? Is it still the 'recruit training company' with a mix of Primaris squads, or is it where all the Reivers live? Where are green Primaris assigned? Do Primaris have a specific rotation through the squad types with experience like regular Marines? Is every tank in the Chapter a Repulsor? Do they employ other Dreadnought chassis for heroes they don't want to burn out in a Redemptor (as that can be a lot of wisdom and experience to throw away)? What does a Primaris Chapter do when a normal Marine force would conduct a Drop Pod Assault? A Primaris-only Chapter just doesn't add up as a functional Space Marine force given the current state of the Primaris. Hence why it was weird the concept was introduced so long before the groundwork was ready, leaving us with fluff is severely lacking and overall just feels 'empty'. Like I said initially, I'm surprised that the Primaris are still so bare bones, so long after their introduction.

 

 

As I said, Primaris lack Veterans because GW only talks about units they sell models for (with some very rare exceptions like the Overlord). Also there are Veterans. The Indomitus Crusaders specialist detachment introduces the concept of Veteran Intercessors and we got the Ultramarine bodyguards. That being said for completely fresh chapters they could also just go with "for now we don't have a 1st company". Like how do other fresh chapters do that? They don't always come with 100 veterans per default. Having a full 1st company is no requirement for a chapter to work.

 

Most of your questions can get answered with "because GW didn't release models for it yet" to be honest. Not all tho and I already admitted before that we could have gotten a bit more informations about some things already. However you are being overly dramatic about it imo since you say you want a skeleton and thanks to all the existing informations about regular Marines we already have way more than just a skeleton. Be patient.

As for what a Primaris chapter would do in place of a Drop Pod assault: For now we only know about Inceptors getting dropped from orbit and Repulsors getting dropped. However as we have only a really basic roster of Primaris units so far it's very much possible that there's more to it but once again we have to wait for GW to release those models first.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

You've also been spoilt by decades of progress on old marines. It took a lot of time to get to where we are with them, and we are still learning. More will come with time.

 

^this as well. T'au for example don't have nearly as detailed explanations for anything unlike Marines.

Eh, I don't think that's really a fair summation of my position. The plea isn't for fluff as voluminous as what we already have for Old Marines, it's for something, at least a skeleton that can be filled in later, instead of just an empty title and 'fluff to be filled in later' sign. Tau launched with some world-building. The relationship between the Castes, Fire Caste training/ranks/career progression etc. were all explained. You could immediately get a reasonable grip on what the Tau were from the moment they arrived on the scene. I don't think you can say the same for Primaris (the amount of info the Tau launched with would be a major improvement over what we've had thus far). I'm not asking for the moon here. A paragraph or two in the Marine dex laying out how Primaris recruitment/training differs from that of Old Marines would have been sufficient for that issue. A firm answer on whether Primaris serve as Scouts, and if not why not. It was really disheartening how little new fluff was in the 8th ed Marine dex, given that Marines were/are undergoing the largest fluff shift they've seen since RT times.

 

If GW aren't ready to explore the natural fallout from the timeskip (which would include things like veteran Primaris), they could have just set 8th before the timeskip, at the start of the Indomitus Crusade. If they aren't willing to release at least the basics of how a Primaris Chapter is organised and operates, they could have not introduced the concept of Primaris-only Chapters when they did, keeping them as augments for the extant Chapters until GW get their ducks in a row. But they chose not to do these things. Which is what kinda baffles me. We're just left with new fluff that's really unsatisfyingly shallow from a world-building perspective (unless there's some major explanatory works out there I've missed), and a real step down from what the studio used to deliver.

Uhm could you be mistaking Primaris for something they aren't? Almost every background info we got about regular Marines also applies to Primaris. There are only a few blank spots that need to get filled (Scouts and Techmarines for example). That's already a ton of informations and way more than just a skeleton.

 

As for how Primaris chapters are organised ... we have no reason to believe it's different to regular chapters untill GW says otherwise just like it's the case for any other no-name chapter.

 

 

I don't think Brother Leif is mistaking Primaris for something they are not. I think  (and please correct me if I'm wrong on this Brother Leif) he's just expressing the frustration I'm sure many feel with the gaps in info we have for the Primaris which would include chapter structure of a Primaris only Space Marine Chapter. To be fair, there are indeed differences between Old Marines and Primaris that make this far from a black and white issue.

 

Just a quick glance at a conventional chapter, you have Terminators on the left and scouts on the right and we don't really have that with Primaris (at least not yet)….. Oh sure we have Aggressors (Terminatorish) and Reivers (Scoutish) but those aren't quite the same and they don't necessarily fit into a chapter structure the same  way either. We also don't have the range of weapons and vehicles (at least not yet) for Primaris that give a conventional chapter the width and breath of flexibility it enjoys today.

 

I'm sure a lot of questions will be answered in the next Space Marine codex, which from what I understand is not too far off. Of coarse, I'm also quite confident that a lot of questions won't be answered too In the mean time, brothers and sisters, don't be put off creating your own Primaris chapters or mixed chapters if you are chomping at the bit to do so. You've got some troops, some officers, some vehicles (true, some are just on paper), some basic info from GW, and a whole lot of imagination. Your army can be tweaked with new structure and bling as time goes on. Just like Primaris, Old Marines were once new, and I'm sure many a gaming vet faced similar challenges as we do today. Sure, Primaris (and even Old Marines) don't shine so much right now in the tournament arena, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun with them does it?..... and having fun is what it's all about right?...….. RIGHT???   

 

 

Yeah I understand that. As I already said it's mostly due GW just not being "there" yet with their model releases. They don't talk about units they don't sell with some rare exceptions like the Overlord. However I don't think the missing informations are as severe as he tries to make them.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Folks are just expressing their frusatration with the lack of information....... perfectly natural, and their's nothing wrong with that. It can be a bit  putting time and effort building a army with just basic information and the knowledge that GW can quite easily put the KBOSH on your work with just a few new models and rules.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

That being said for completely fresh chapters they could also just go with "for now we don't have a 1st company". Like how do other fresh chapters do that? They don't always come with 100 veterans per default. Having a full 1st company is no requirement for a chapter to work.

 

Most of your questions can get answered with "because GW didn't release models for it yet" to be honest. Not all tho and I already admitted before that we could have gotten a bit more informations about some things already. However you are being overly dramatic about it imo since you say you want a skeleton and thanks to all the existing informations about regular Marines we already have way more than just a skeleton. Be patient.

As for what a Primaris chapter would do in place of a Drop Pod assault: For now we only know about Inceptors getting dropped from orbit and Repulsors getting dropped. However as we have only a really basic roster of Primaris units so far it's very much possible that there's more to it but once again we have to wait for GW to release those models first.

 

That's a hole in Marine lore that I'm sad was never filled (as far as I'm aware). They could have made a really good book/series covering the founding of a new Chapter, how it's done, some of the hurdles faced etc.

 

 

 

Most of your questions can get answered with "because GW didn't release models for it yet" to be honest. Not all tho and I already admitted before that we could have gotten a bit more informations about some things already. However you are being overly dramatic about it imo since you say you want a skeleton and thanks to all the existing informations about regular Marines we already have way more than just a skeleton. Be patient.

As for what a Primaris chapter would do in place of a Drop Pod assault: For now we only know about Inceptors getting dropped from orbit and Repulsors getting dropped. However as we have only a really basic roster of Primaris units so far it's very much possible that there's more to it but once again we have to wait for GW to release those models first.

 

Here's the thing I really don't get about this. I understand that the Primaris range is limited, and needs expansion (and GW's irritating 'only things with models get mentions' policy). What I don't get is why GW chose to bake such issues into the 8th ed fluff, when it wasn't necessary. They could have directly addressed the Scout question in the 8th ed dex, but they chose not to. They could have written around the limitations in the Primaris range. But they went all in, creating entire Primaris Chapters without the resources/groundwork to really sell the idea beyond the superficial. That's why I say they didn't even give us a skeleton, the only concrete information we have on Primaris Chapters is that they exist, everything else is supposition and hope they follow the pattern of Old Marines. If I want to start a Primaris Chapter today I have pretty much nothing fluff-wise to go on. Hence why they feel empty and phoned in as a concept. Now, this may well bother me more than most of the fanbase, because solid world-building and the like is something I really like in my SciFi. You're right, this will hopefully change when they get around to expanding the Primaris range, but I remain somewhat amazed that it's taken them this long to follow up on the initial Primaris release.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

 

That being said for completely fresh chapters they could also just go with "for now we don't have a 1st company". Like how do other fresh chapters do that? They don't always come with 100 veterans per default. Having a full 1st company is no requirement for a chapter to work.

 

Most of your questions can get answered with "because GW didn't release models for it yet" to be honest. Not all tho and I already admitted before that we could have gotten a bit more informations about some things already. However you are being overly dramatic about it imo since you say you want a skeleton and thanks to all the existing informations about regular Marines we already have way more than just a skeleton. Be patient.

As for what a Primaris chapter would do in place of a Drop Pod assault: For now we only know about Inceptors getting dropped from orbit and Repulsors getting dropped. However as we have only a really basic roster of Primaris units so far it's very much possible that there's more to it but once again we have to wait for GW to release those models first.

 

That's a hole in Marine lore that I'm sad was never filled (as far as I'm aware). They could have made a really good book/series covering the founding of a new Chapter, how it's done, some of the hurdles faced etc.

 

 

 

Most of your questions can get answered with "because GW didn't release models for it yet" to be honest. Not all tho and I already admitted before that we could have gotten a bit more informations about some things already. However you are being overly dramatic about it imo since you say you want a skeleton and thanks to all the existing informations about regular Marines we already have way more than just a skeleton. Be patient.

As for what a Primaris chapter would do in place of a Drop Pod assault: For now we only know about Inceptors getting dropped from orbit and Repulsors getting dropped. However as we have only a really basic roster of Primaris units so far it's very much possible that there's more to it but once again we have to wait for GW to release those models first.

 

Here's the thing I really don't get about this. I understand that the Primaris range is limited, and needs expansion (and GW's irritating 'only things with models get mentions' policy). What I don't get is why GW chose to bake such issues into the 8th ed fluff, when it wasn't necessary. They could have directly addressed the Scout question in the 8th ed dex, but they chose not to. They could have written around the limitations in the Primaris range. But they went all in, creating entire Primaris Chapters without the resources/groundwork to really sell the idea beyond the superficial. That's why I say they didn't even give us a skeleton, the only concrete information we have on Primaris Chapters is that they exist, everything else is supposition and hope they follow the pattern of Old Marines. If I want to start a Primaris Chapter today I have pretty much nothing fluff-wise to go on. Hence why they feel empty and phoned in as a concept. Now, this may well bother me more than most of the fanbase, because solid world-building and the like is something I really like in my SciFi. You're right, this will hopefully change when they get around to expanding the Primaris range, but I remain somewhat amazed that it's taken them this long to follow up on the initial Primaris release.

 

 

It would indeed be very cool for GW/BL to cover the founding of a new chapter from the ground up

 

I don't think it was so much a choice to leave some key Primaris info out as not enough space and time in the codex in the rush to get product out. Hopefully we'll see some of your questions answered in the next incarnation of Codex: Space Marines. Maybe we'll see something in White Dwarf...… Who knows

[Dracos]

For the love of the Imperium, someone please pull out one of their 2nd edition Marine Codex.  The fluff some are so distraught over was cartoonish compared to today material. It was shallow, goofy, and empty compared to what we have now. There was somuch unfilled space that handfuls of fanfic  abd DIY was washs away when the official stories for Chapters not in t he Big4 were released. It was fun though. 

 

Relax, enjoy the materials we have and show patience with the process and remember to have fun ... it's a game with make believe stories and army men

[Ishagu]

For the love of the Imperium, someone please pull out one of their 2nd edition Marine Codex. The fluff some are so distraught over was cartoonish compared to today material. It was shallow, goofy, and empty compared to what we have now. There was somuch unfilled space that handfuls of fanfic abd DIY was washs away when the official stories for Chapters not in t he Big4 were released. It was fun though.

 

Relax, enjoy the materials we have and show patience with the process and remember to have fun ... it's a game with make believe stories and army men

This is true. Let's be patient and stop comparing a new release to another which has been built up over 20 years.

 

Although I must admit the second wave has taken longer than I expected. I think it's coming very soon now, probably after the second Vigilus book. On the positive side I've had enough time to buy, build and paint multiples of every Primaris kit so I'm totally ready for more releases.

[Robbienw]

It is surprising how long the second wave has taken.  I reckon they had a much earlier release date for it, but decided to do some re-working/tweaking to the models.