Terminus Decree theory [SPOILERS]

[Elzender]

It is perfectly possible that the order the Emperor gave Dorn was a last resource kind of thing. After all, somebody had to replace Malcador to keep the webway portal closed, and since there was no other available psyker powerful enough (Sanguinius dead, all other sigilites dead, and I'm guessing there was no time to pursue, capture, drag and chain Magnus to the Throne), he just told Dorn to stick him on it to prevent a new daemon invasion just after defeating a traitors+daemons invasion.

So yeah, everything is Leman's fault for listening to Horus when he was told to go fetch Magnus :D.

[DuskRaider]

 

But surely the big E would have ordered papa smurf to flip the death switch when he was on terra getting told off?

 

 

I‘m still not fully convinced guilly talked to the man „the emperor of mankind“ and not the psychic amalgamation „the God Emperor“ that was born from billions of sacrificed psykers souls (even if that still contains the man he once was in some form). Mainly, I’m not sure if the goals of these two entities directly align anymore.

Oooooo... I like this idea.

[Spyros]

 

But surely the big E would have ordered papa smurf to flip the death switch when he was on terra getting told off?

 

I‘m still not fully convinced guilly talked to the man „the emperor of mankind“ and not the psychic amalgamation „the God Emperor“ that was born from billions of sacrificed psykers souls (even if that still contains the man he once was in some form). Mainly, I’m not sure if the goals of these two entities directly align anymore.

 

 

Apparently Guilliman did communicate with the Emperor, though I cannot remember the source for sure. It's not "GS3:Rise of the Primarch", I think it was from "Dark Imperium" novel. Guilliman wishes there was another brother of his, another primarch to talk to about what had transpired in the throne room and also mentions in his thoughts that the emperor had lost his (psychic?) subtlety. There was a form of communication.

[Finkmilkana]

Apparently Guilliman did communicate with the Emperor, though I cannot remember the source for sure. It's not "GS3:Rise of the Primarch", I think it was from "Dark Imperium" novel. Guilliman wishes there was another brother of his, another primarch to talk to about what had transpired in the throne room and also mentions in his thoughts that the emperor had lost his (psychic?) subtlety. There was a form of communication.

It’s in dark imperium, but it’s not directly shown. But quotes include

He appeared dead. Guilliman had expected nothing. But he spoke.(...)What remained of him was powerful beyond comprehension, but it lacked the sublety he had had whilst he walked among men. Speaking with the emperors has been like conversing with a star. The emperors words had burned him. (...) Though his power was immense, perhaps greater than it had been before he ascended, the emperors humanity was all but gone.

 

He communicated with something that guilliman belived to essentially still be the emperor, even worn thin by 10000 years of imprisonment as he may be. But besides gullimans belief, there is nothing in there saying it actually IS the emperor (as an individual at least). All in all, the being seemed to act more like a pure warp entity caged to the throne than the man the emperor once was (or at least pretended to be). Guilliman, disillusioned as he currently is, sees this coldness as proof that the „emperor“ always was cold and only feigned humanity and love. But that is the personal, probably highly flawed, view of a lost son that came searching for guidance from his father, not some in-universe truth.

 

Though there is also still the old theory floating around that the emperor purged all that is kindness and love from his being in order to kill Horus, but personally I believe the emperor (as an individual) (slowly?) being overwhelmed and subsumed by the warp energies of the belief of all of humanity and the billions of sacrificed psykers souls seems more likely. I think when the physical emperor finally dies, a new (chaos?) god will be born and the emperor might be reborn. But if it happens, these two, finally seperated from the chains of the Throne, will be two different beings.

 

In light of this, the Terminus Decree might not actually have the emperors resurrection as a goal, but the destruction of this new god before it breaks completely free of the original emperors dwindling control and, like slanesh, becomes a full chaos god of humanities own making (probably one of mindless zeal and eternal stagnation instead of pleasure).

[Slasher956]

its almost like the book(s) Inquistion War... where when the key characters get to the throne room they find the Emperor has been driven schizophrenic by all the souls he's consummed over the centuries... and can keep secrets from him self

[Moonreaper666]

One thing I never understood with the whole Emperor needs to die to save mankind theory, is that didn’t he specifically tell Dorn with his last breaths to put him on the throne? Why wouldn’t he have just said to Dorn to let him die if he knew he could come back stronger? Or at least say to hit the off switch once the immediate threat of the Heresy was resolved.

Perpetuals can be permanently killed

 

Vulkan was permanently dead until Artellus Numeon traded his life for Vulkan

 

 

Chaos not only has the ability to make Perpetuals but make them dead for good!

 

 

Terminus Decree could destroy the Golden Throne AND kill most Astartes

[Nova_Dew]

I have a good idea about the Terminus Decree, that doesn't involve the Golden Throne.

 

To those that don't know it (and for a good reason since it is secret!) it's an artifact kept by the Grey Knights on Titan:

"Deep within the Chambers of Purity, locked away in the chamber said to hold the tomb of the Sigillite himself, rests a simple wooden box, embellished with a golden seal. Within this box, written upon ancient parchment, is the instruction known only as the Terminus Decree. This artefact goes unrecorded in all the libraries of the Imperium, for it has been kept secret from all but the Supreme Grand Masters of the Chapter.

....

The Terminus Decree is the ultimate sanction of the Grey Knights, a secret so vast it could bring the Imperium to its knees, or save it in its darkest hour.

....

.... the only clue to its contents lies in the box’s golden seal. It is whispered that it is the exact match of another seal, found only in one place in all the Imperium’s many scattered worlds: the Emperor’s Golden Throne."

 

The current theory is that it unlocks the Golden Throne, thus either killing the Emperor or allowing his rebirth, but at the same time collapsing the Astronomican beacon and probably releasing the psychic seals of the Imperial Webway entrance and leaving Terra open to full scale Daemonic invasion.

So It could bring the Imperium to its knees, or save it if the Emperor is reborn.

 

But what if it's something else completely?

During the Horus Heresy (events described in "Deliverance Lost"), the Emperor gave Corax the information needed to manipulate Primarch and Astartes genetic code in order to quickly rebuild his shattered legion. And said:

"I not only give you the gift of these memories and this technology, I place upon you the burden of its protection. You will have the power to create armies as I once did, and that in itself would be reason enough to jealously guard its existence. More than that, the gene-store contains the means to destroy what it created. That which I bound within the fibre of every Space Marine can be undone, unravelling their strength and purpose at a stroke."

 

Did you see that?

"...at a stroke."

 

There is a way to virtually instantly kill all Astartes...

 

That makes better sense that sacrificing Terra to Daemons.

 

(The Custodians are probably safe as they are a different breed.)

 

Come to think about it, the wording doesn't involve killing the astartes, just them loosing their strength and purpose, i think you are misreading the quote to suite your desires, that strength and purpose is their faith in the emp and the defence of the imperium, maybe it's proof the Emp sees them as truly disposable and planned to kill them off,, or proof the Emp is/was a warp entity and never human and planned the whole thing including the heresy to gain power, or the secret of the SM's/Primarchs creation being tied to the warp and the chaos gods (that would rock the imperium to it's knees) or maybe it's a means of rendering the gene seed inert stopping the ability to make new space marines

[Leif Bearclaw]

So yeah, everything is Leman's fault for listening to Horus when he was told to go fetch Magnus .

 

Actually, it's all Leman's fault for not killing Horus himself when he had the chance.

 

[Elzender]

 

 

So yeah, everything is Leman's fault for listening to Horus when he was told to go fetch Magnus .

SNIP

I think you might want to put that in a spoiler tag, brother, not everyone might have read that book and it is not that old.

[Spyros]

New info has appeared as I read the Horus Heresy series of books.

 

In "Old Earth" (book 47) by Nick Kyme, at the end as Vulcan is before the Golden Throne, the Emperor reveals to him that his serialized deaths and rebirths were not random chance but have led to the creation of a powerful talisman.

 

"Vulkan wrenched the talisman from his neck and reached out with it towards the Throne. A small circular aperture presented itself and without further hesitation he pressed the talisman into it. In the moment of connection, Vulkan saw a sea of flame rise up to engulf the Tower of Hegemon, to swallow the Tower of Heroes and all the mighty spires of the Palace. It spread, this conflagration within his mind, sweeping across the Panpacific, Ursh, Hy Brasil, Ind and Nordafrik, to every region until nothing remained but ash.
The talisman would magnify the power of the Throne to unleash cataclysm.
Vulkan blinked and it was gone, a part of the great mechanism, impossible to remove and forever waiting."

 

The Emperor's plan is to destroy Terra in case Horus wins in order to deny it to Chaos: "Not to deny it to Horus but to Chaos, and to strike a blow against their forces the like of which they will never recover from."

 

Soooo... the Terminus Decree might be just that, the activation of Vulcan's talisman on the throne, in case Terra falls to Chaos...

[Panzer]

New info has appeared as I read the Horus Heresy series of books.

 

In "Old Earth" (book 47) by Nick Kyme, at the end as Vulcan is before the Golden Throne, the Emperor reveals to him that his serialized deaths and rebirths were not random chance but have led to the creation of a powerful talisman.

 

"Vulkan wrenched the talisman from his neck and reached out with it towards the Throne. A small circular aperture presented itself and without further hesitation he pressed the talisman into it. In the moment of connection, Vulkan saw a sea of flame rise up to engulf the Tower of Hegemon, to swallow the Tower of Heroes and all the mighty spires of the Palace. It spread, this conflagration within his mind, sweeping across the Panpacific, Ursh, Hy Brasil, Ind and Nordafrik, to every region until nothing remained but ash.

The talisman would magnify the power of the Throne to unleash cataclysm.

Vulkan blinked and it was gone, a part of the great mechanism, impossible to remove and forever waiting."

 

The Emperor's plan is to destroy Terra in case Horus wins in order to deny it to Chaos: "Not to deny it to Horus but to Chaos, and to strike a blow against their forces the like of which they will never recover from."

 

Soooo... the Terminus Decree might be just that, the activation of Vulcan's talisman on the throne, in case Terra falls to Chaos...

 

Fits Sanguinius' prophecy (which only Dante knows of currently) which speaks about chaos and presumably Tyranids clashing at Terra which leads to the presumable ascension of the Emperor. Not that we would ever get to that point in 40k as it would pretty much declare the end of the setting as it happend to the Old World in fantasy.

[Karhedron]

Soooo... the Terminus Decree might be just that, the activation of Vulcan's talisman on the throne, in case Terra falls to Chaos...

I thought that the plan was for Vulkan himself to activate the Talisman (or that it would trigger automatically). Hiding the instructions for something vital that might be needed at extremely short notice on Titan seems very risky.

 

Though there is also still the old theory floating around that the emperor purged all that is kindness and love from his being in order to kill Horus, but personally I believe the emperor (as an individual) (slowly?) being overwhelmed and subsumed by the warp energies of the belief of all of humanity and the billions of sacrificed psykers souls seems more likely. I think when the physical emperor finally dies, a new (chaos?) god will be born and the emperor might be reborn. But if it happens, these two, finally seperated from the chains of the Throne, will be two different beings.

Ah, the Starchild theory. I loved then old Inquisition War trilogy. There was a short piece of fiction I read recently (new 8th edition stuff) that actually resurrects the Starchild theory. It has a dying Primaris marine being greeted by a shining golden being. The Marine asks if he is the Emperor. The being replies that he was once, long ago. He then asks the Marine if he wants peace. The Marine reluctantly declines and says his duty is not yet done. The being sadly warns him that there will be pain. The Marine accepts this and awakens to find himself being interred into a Redpemptor Dreadnought.

 

Frustratingly, I cannot find where I read this now. Does it ring any bells with anyone else?

 

If it is true, it does imply that the Emperor's "lost" humanity still exists within the Warp. What this means for the Emperor is unclear. Are there now 2 beings in the warp, one driven purely by the necessity of continued existence and the other more benevolent and aspirational?

[gaurdian31]

That is from the Crusade and Other Stories book. It is what happens to Lt. Cassian and he is actually talking to Robute Guilliman. It starts on pg. 185. Guilliman actually says "Once, almost, for my sins. Lieutentant, is your duty done?" Guilliman is referring to the Unremembered Empire or Imperium Secondus. I hope that helps!

 

Edited to add: Also the story is called Crusade and is by Andy Clark.

[CaptainMarsh]

There is unlikely to be any hard evidence pointing to what the Terminus Decree is. I doubt the novels are subtly giving clues as to what it is, any more than the setting's fetishsizing of apocalyptic imagery and omens point to anything reaching a path forward.

[slitth]

I do not think we are talking about a kill switch, but the corruption of the strength and purpose of the Astartes.

With the knowledge you can make a army of heroes or you can make humanity the perfect weapon for chaos use.

 

No I think that the Terminus Decree is humanity is acknowledgement that humanity is now forever lost.

That we cannot be saved and the fight the soul is lost.

It is mass Exterminatus, every world, every man, woman and child must die.

[Moonreaper666]

Could be, tho if every Space Marine in the Imperium suddenly died, I doubt it’d be a big deal. The Astartes are, like, maybe one one-billionth of the Imperium’s military.

In the right situations, a squad of Marines can accomplish what a few million Guardsmen cannot

 

Without Astartes the Imperium would have never done the Great Crusade. So many pivotal battles in Imperial History have the Space Marines smack dab in the middle of it. The Imperium relies on Astartes more than Chaos that is why Primaris are suddenly accepted without question. Only an idiot would refuse tens of thousands of extra Astartes plus another stream of reinforcements (Looking at Seth and the twelve remaining Flesh Tearers)

 

I doubt the kill-switch would work on every Chaos Space Marine. Even if it wiped out the vast majority of them, Chaos can just revive them with a snap...

 

...or create something MORE HORRIFYING