rcoon Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I've just finished up my Adeptus Custodes competitive army and as a result have quite a lot of IG units that I bought to complement it (loyal 32 CP farm) as well as some vanity units (fully magnetised baneblade). As IG are currently kings of 8th I'd quite like to make a highly competitive 2K army but I have no idea where to start. My meta is very building-lite in terms of table layout, and all of my opponents are highly mechanised - Death Guard vehicle list, Space Marine Predator/Hellblasters list, Ad Mech Knight list with 2 castellans and a Gallant etc. Models I have: 4 x Company Commanders 3 x Primaris Psykers 1 x Techpriest Enginseer 3 x Troop Squads with basic loadout (no mortar teams) 1 x Plasma Executioner with Knight Commander Pask 3 x Leman Russ Battle Tank 1 x Fully magnetised Baneblade (can make ALL variants with this kit) Obviously I have no short supply of Adeptus Custodes Jetbikes which can be used as captains I also have a Saint Celestine and a squad of SoS Witchseekers and a Null Maiden Rhino but I don't think I'll ever table these. Too awkward and not worth it. TLDR; I'd like a properly competitive list, not fluffy, that can deal with a vehicle heavy high toughness meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 You have a really good starting base. I'd start by picking up 3 boxes of Cadian weapon teams and building them all as Mortars. Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Lovely start to an army Get at least 3 more squads for the double battalion/ brigade. I usually run 8+ cause cheap bodies. 1-3 mortar HWT squads works well. (Remember you can make loads of HWTs out of 1 box if you want the other weapons, there are guides somewhere on this forum). Maybe some basilisks, an astropath or hellhounds for flavour since they are all strong units. Your russes are great as a spearhead, though a basic tank commander is a lot cheaper than pask and is less of a target. Guard win with bodies and heavy firepower. I would win for those. Also don't be static, a lot of games require objectives so try and keep moving forward if it benefits you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Hellhounds... Best AA guns. Can also be used as SVBIED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZakalwe Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 A hellhound or two will never be a bad idea, laspistol Astropaths are probably the most efficient psykers in 40k, a Basilisk is something your opponent will never enjoy seeing across the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Thanks for all the replies. My "Primaris Psykers" are actually the generic psyker models from GW so I can use those as Astropaths instead. Hellhounds I notice are GW exclusive and surprisingly expensive, along with basilisks... What are people's thoughts on the Armoured Sentinels? Also, is Commissar Yarrick and Creed worth taking these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Guard Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Due to the recent point decreases for guard I would say Creed and Kell are great for Cadian lists whilst Yarrick is good (better than he was before for his points) and best used in combat heavy lists ie catachans due to his reroll to hit buff. Creed and Kell gets you 4 (5 if you want to give him Master of Command) 12" range orders, extra 2cp if he's your warlord and a few other buffs that I cant remember for just 95 pts. Amazing for infantry lists due to all those juicy buffs alongside the Cadian doctrine and strat (list has to be cadian though). But he'll be a huge target so you'll need a few ogryn bodyguards alongside Kell as well as buying more infantry/mortar squads. Personally I would only really take Yarrick in a very combat-y list such as catachans but he's almost as cheap as Creed/Kell which is pretty good. Otherwise I second the double battalion as you can fill them out easily and cheaply whilst getting 10 extra CP but you would have to get another 3 infantry squads but at least you won't need to get anymore Company Commanders. Also basilisks, hellhounds etc. are all great options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doof Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Armored Sentinels are Ok. With Tallarn they are actually pretty good with no minus to hit with heavy weapons. 6 T6 wounds for 35 points ( 40 with autocannon which is best loadout IMO). Artillery is actually one of the best parts of guard, especially with new Emperors Wrath detachment. Without much LOS blocking terrain they have less utility. You really need more bodies with guard. I bring abuot 9 squads every game: 6 as Regular infantry and 3 as veterans usually. I play Vostroyan, so my infantry get a little more bang for their buck with the 30" range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Due to the recent point decreases for guard I would say Creed and Kell are great for Cadian lists whilst Yarrick is good (better than he was before for his points) and best used in combat heavy lists ie catachans due to his reroll to hit buff. Creed and Kell gets you 4 (5 if you want to give him Master of Command) 12" range orders, extra 2cp if he's your warlord and a few other buffs that I cant remember for just 95 pts. Amazing for infantry lists due to all those juicy buffs alongside the Cadian doctrine and strat (list has to be cadian though). But he'll be a huge target so you'll need a few ogryn bodyguards alongside Kell as well as buying more infantry/mortar squads. Personally I would only really take Yarrick in a very combat-y list such as catachans but he's almost as cheap as Creed/Kell which is pretty good. Otherwise I second the double battalion as you can fill them out easily and cheaply whilst getting 10 extra CP but you would have to get another 3 infantry squads but at least you won't need to get anymore Company Commanders. Also basilisks, hellhounds etc. are all great options. Creed can't take master of command. Named Cadians must take superior tactical training as their warlord trait. Honestly, it's the best warlord trait the guard have. With Creed, it's entirely possible to get 6 orders out per turn, but usually 4 or 5. Laurels of command is the best guard relic out there. If you want to maximize your orders with guard, keep 1 company commander in the back with laurels ordering your mortars to take aim and have a 50% chance of giving them a second order (I like bring em down), Creed should be with your army's main bulk and bring a 2nd company commander to move up the board with your forwards troops. Honestly Creed is hardly ever killed, because he is only valuable if he's got nearby troops. Tank Commanders especially Pask are the 1st turn targets. Pask with his 2+ BS and access to 2 tank orders can do damage if he escapes round 1 undamaged. The Cadian tank order, pound them to dust added to their native reroll 1s for standing still, means that you can have leman russ tanks that can kill better tanks. Pound them to dust allows a leman russ to reroll number of shots individually for both shots of the grinding advance. A standard cadian battle cannon, standing still with pound them to dust is going to average 8 shots rerolling 1s with a S8 AP-2 D3 damage gun. A BS 4+ doesn't sound too scary until you realize that overlapping fields of fire means that tank could hit targets on a 3+ and the battle cannon can range the entire board. You're right about basilisks. They're the best performing weapons the guard have. You can tuck them out of sight the entire game along with you Company Commander who is ordering the mortars. You now have a massive indirect fire park that needs only a squad of infantry to help keep them safe. They hit pretty hard. I average 4 shots per turn on each and they are a S9 AP-3 D3 damage weapon. For fast attack I like to go scout sentinels for cheap and quick objective grabbing. Give them autocannons and maybe HK missiles to make them actually a strong weapon. They're pretty weak, but most opponents are not going to shoot them with anything more than incidental fire from bolters that can't reach infantry. Truthfully, hellhounds are probably stronger due to the high potential to sacrifice it and kill several important enemies. Of the hellhound variants I prefer the banewolf. You're practically guaranteed to kill any infantry units you hit with it, but I admit that roll 1 D6 as opposed to 2D6 for auto hits does suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Take a look at the five Vigilus detachments and see if you favor one of the play styles. Each of the detachments is competitively viable, not necessarily for all 2000 points but certainly a 600+ pt detachment of which you can take 3 different detachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Appreciate all the replies, learning a hell of a lot and trying to formulate some lists. Would you say drowning the opponent in bodies is still viable if 75% of their army is heavy or super heavy vehicles? I know mortar teams are the greatest thing ever for actual tournament lists, but since my opponents don't really run that many bodies besides the Space Marine player, are they still an auto take? And do you run them inside your Troop units or as separate Heavy Support units? Thus far my list of "extra stuff to buy" is Basilisks, more troop squads and Creed<3Kell. I'm also curious if its better to run two Battalions or a single Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Guard Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 You can drown anything in bodies xD! But seriously, regarding the mortars I reckon having them in their own separate squad is best because: makes best use of the indirect fire as you don't waste the rest of the squad who can't shoot cheaper as you don't have the rest of the squad hanging around doing nothing more efficient orders wise since you only have to order a single squad to buff them instead of 3 orders if they were all in separate unit However, for all other HWs I put them in squads since of the ablative layer of guardsmen keeps them alive longer, no indirect fire so guardsmen can shoot, etc. I would definitely run the baneblade as a shadowsword for obvious reasons along with psykers to protect it. You still need bodies to screen your tanks and vehicles but I wouldn't say a massed infantry charge is the best idea especially if they've got knights which can shoot outta combat (though it would be fun). Personally I mostly use the double battalion as its cheaper to fill out, but brigades do have their advantages as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 You'll have to excuse me if this is a crap list, I'm not too versed on the ideal qualities of a guard layout, but this to me seemed like a good anti-vehicle 2K list to drop on the board. I've also just learnt that my DG opponent who typically runs a mass of crawlers, haulers and drones is now bringing a Mortarian as well. ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian + HQ + Company Commander: Chainsword, Plasma pistol, Relic: The Laurels of Command Company Commander: Boltgun, Chainsword + Troops + Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol + Elites + Colour Sergeant Kell + Heavy Support + Basilisks . Basilisk: Heavy Bolter Basilisks . Basilisk: Heavy Bolter ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian + HQ + Knight Commander Pask: Display Tank Orders, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons . Command Executioner: Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon Lord Castellan Creed: Display Astra Militarum Orders, Warlord, WT (Cadia): Superior Tactical Training + Troops + Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol Infantry Squad: 9x Guardsman . Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol + Elites + Astropath: Psychic Barrier, Telepathica Stave Astropath: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave Astropath: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave + Heavy Support + Heavy Weapons Squad . Heavy Weapon Team - Mortar . Heavy Weapon Team - Mortar . Heavy Weapon Team - Mortar ++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++ + No Force Org Slot + Imperial Commander's Armoury: 1 additional Heirloom of Conquest, -1 CP Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Valhallan Vigilus Defiant: Emperor's Fist Tank Company, -1 CP + HQ + Tank Commander: Emperor's Fist, Lascannon . Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon Tank Comander: Emperor's Fist, Lascannon . Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon Tank Commander: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Relic (Emperor's Fist): Hammer of Sunderance . Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon + Elites + Tech-Priest Enginseer + Lord of War + Shadowsword: Twin heavy bolter ++ Total: [126 PL, 2000pts] ++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 It looks like a decent although very static start. If you want to go for that I'd make the Supreme Command Cadian as well. That way the other tanks, which are your main source of damage benefit from the +1 to hit from overlapping fields of fire. I'd drop the Plasma on Pask...if you want to bring them, I'd put them on another TC. He should be the first to shoot, for OFoF, so that all the others can then get the bonus. You'll struggle with taking objectives as well as screening because you don't have a lot of disposable infantry that actually wants to move. I generally feel you can get away with 60 infantry, but then they need to be able to move about. You'll also potentially struggle against hordes. You also have was more orders than you need. You 7 units that want orders and the capacity to hand out 10, without even going into strategems or SSt. Considering you'll lose infantry fast a lot of your commanders will be out of work. They're not much use if they can't shout orders at anyone. I know Kell has been praised earlier, but he really isn't doing anything noteworthy in this list.Same with Creed actually. If you drop both, replace them with another Company Commander, Lord Commissar or Primaris Psyker and fill the rest up with more infantry you will probably have a similar result with more board presence. You'll also want to consider the other regiments. Cadia is easy and powerful, but can also get boring quick, because in 8th it's the definition on Guard castling up. Might be a bit of a culture shock after Custodes. Also, I think there are board rules against posting detailed points costs. So you might want to edit that. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 It looks like a decent although very static start. If you want to go for that I'd make the Supreme Command Cadian as well. That way the other tanks, which are your main source of damage benefit from the +1 to hit from overlapping fields of fire. I'd drop the Plasma on Pask...if you want to bring them, I'd put them on another TC. He should be the first to shoot, for OFoF, so that all the others can then get the bonus. You'll struggle with taking objectives as well as screening because you don't have a lot of disposable infantry that actually wants to move. I generally feel you can get away with 60 infantry, but then they need to be able to move about. You'll also potentially struggle against hordes. You also have was more orders than you need. You 7 units that want orders and the capacity to hand out 10, without even going into strategems or SSt. Considering you'll lose infantry fast a lot of your commanders will be out of work. They're not much use if they can't shout orders at anyone. I know Kell has been praised earlier, but he really isn't doing anything noteworthy in this list.Same with Creed actually. If you drop both, replace them with another Company Commander, Lord Commissar or Primaris Psyker and fill the rest up with more infantry you will probably have a similar result with more board presence. You'll also want to consider the other regiments. Cadia is easy and powerful, but can also get boring quick, because in 8th it's the definition on Guard castling up. Might be a bit of a culture shock after Custodes. Also, I think there are board rules against posting detailed points costs. So you might want to edit that. To be fair there are very few horde lists in my meta - thus far it has been a race to whomever can get the largest tankiest army and now everybody is running Knights or a ludicrous amount of vehicles. Very few are running battalions except for cheap CP like IG, Skitari, Scout squads etc. My solution was 12 Custode bikes, a blob of golden armour to march towards the enemy and some guard holding backfield objectives. The aim of this list was to actually kill some enemy units underneath sheer weight of artillery. I bought Pask before the points decrease on Tank Commanders. Is he just flat out not worth taking? If not I'll just pretend he's a generic Tank Commander and save the points. His BS 2+ is very nice though. I see your point about the Cadian regiment on the Supreme Command. My thought process of Valhallan is that the Shadowsword will remain a relevant threat throughout the game as he gets his wounds chipped off as the big shiny scary units inevitably get focused first. Cadia made sense because OFoF is busted and rerolling 1's is always nice. I figured I can just dump 3 squads of guard on 3 objectives, place a Company Commander and the Heavy Weapons Squads near one of them and make him babysit them. In the event I don't need the backfield objectives, the Tank commanders can sit on them and order themselves to fire. Then the 3 squads can join the main guard blob. The other 3 squads of guard can move with Creed and Krell and get orders poured onto them while they're still alive. I always viewed Infantry squads as utterly useless anyway and only really worthy of cushioning tanks from deep strikes. Is there any real purpose in a mobile guard list? You certainly don't want them in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero88 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Vehicle heavy meta you say? Vostroyan Shadowsword and 2 Astropaths I say B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar potato Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 +1 for shadowsword, if you are targeting a knight for example you can be hitting on 2s rerolling ones, using overlapping fields. Then wounding on 2s rerolling ones from the targeting computer I think it’s called. Then, their 5+ save will save 2 most likely, resulting in 28 damage! Now this is all in a vacuum mind you as he probably rotated ion shields or someone but it’s still quite impressive. Hope this helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZakalwe Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 +1 for shadowsword, if you are targeting a knight for example you can be hitting on 2s rerolling ones, using overlapping fields. Then wounding on 2s rerolling ones from the targeting computer I think it’s called. Then, their 5+ save will save 2 most likely, resulting in 28 damage! Now this is all in a vacuum mind you as he probably rotated ion shields or someone but it’s still quite impressive. Hope this helped! A knight would have Ion Bulwark and rotate for a 3+ invuln- the days where Shadowswords were good at killing knights are over, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Cadians are not that good on the move. You better off with tallarn as your mobile part and cadia as your home objective sitters. Catachan is good for static xD6 shots vehicle weapons (artillery) and hellhounds as there are not that many things more frustrating than 5-6 attacks of a Battle Cannon per game. And you already know what unit is the #1 to die. Catachan doctrine will make tank commanders not that necessary to have. Non-commander Russes tend to be less intimidating and actually have the chance of shooting. One more good anti-armour option is lascannon teams in Cadian infantry squads. Makes your bunch of dudes a distraction too. Just keep them holding the line, and that's where Kell has some use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoon Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 +1 for shadowsword, if you are targeting a knight for example you can be hitting on 2s rerolling ones, using overlapping fields. Then wounding on 2s rerolling ones from the targeting computer I think it’s called. Then, their 5+ save will save 2 most likely, resulting in 28 damage! Now this is all in a vacuum mind you as he probably rotated ion shields or someone but it’s still quite impressive. Hope this helped! A knight would have Ion Bulwark and rotate for a 3+ invuln- the days where Shadowswords were good at killing knights are over, sadly. ^ This. I used to run a Shadowsword in a detachment with psykers and a commissar (to execute them when they rolled snake eyes) in my Custodes list to deal with knights specifically. With Ion Bulwark and Rotate Ion shields it's all but impossible to kill a knight with the very thing designed to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairence Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Pask is still exceent in a Cadian list. He's the most efficient way of triggering OFoF. If you're only going with regular TCs I personally think Catachans are best, at least for any turret with random shots. They are exactly them same as Cadians, except that they're not nailed to the spot. I understand your point about Valhallan...I don't really use superheavies, so I have little first hand experience. I figure it this way: if young go first, you can get him +1 with Cadians. If you go second and he survives, you can still get him the +1 and will hit on 5s. With Valhallans you can get the same when he's damaged, but no bonus when he's fresh. And oh yes, mobile Guard is heaps of fun. I've been playing a Tallarn brigade for a while now, cheap with infantry and sentinels. The squads can move up to 12" and still shoot with no orders needed. My regular opponent is often surrounded by T2, giving me good board control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HallofStovokor Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I'm actually of the opinion that the shadowsword is still the best baneblade variant. Even with the 3+ invulnerable save, the shadowsword can still 1 shot a knight. Let's say that you get 6 shots. With cadia getting OFF and reroll 1s, the shadowsword will hit on 2s rerolling 1s wounding on 2s (against most knights) rerolling failed hits. Half of the wounds are going through statistically. After that, there's the 2D6 damage. It's main gun can destroy the Knight, but the lascannons on the sponsons should finish it. I'd go for 4 sponsons, as it's a go big or go home situation with the baneblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I think that the most important thing that you'll need if you intend to be a competitive IG player is, and I cannot stress this enough, a container to store the tears of your enemies in. If you're successful, and you look like the kind of handsome and intelligent individual that wins with IG, then they will whine. They'll cry. They'll bemoan the sad state of their lives and the decisions they've made that have brought them to this point. They'll email GW and demand that loyal 32 to nerfed and that Russ tanks should be 200+ points. They'll personally accuse you of not wanting friends and of hating God, capitalism, and apple pie. Such is life in the fast lane, my friend. You learn to live with it. What you won't do is waste their precious tears. Collect them. Harness their power by using them to thin your paint. Wash your dice in their tears to encourage better rolls. Sacrifice a vial and a dias to Him on Earth. Store them on your coffee table as a conversation starter. The possibilities are endless, but the Emperor abhors waste, so use them well. More productively, put those basilisks to good use and consider putting them in an Emperor's Wrath detachment. Firing twice with re-rolls to hit (aerial spotters) is too sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuardDaddy Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 There are so many possibilities with AM its hard to give a definitive answer. A couple of points/ideas in relation to your OP and vehicle heavy lists. Your Meta seems to have few 'fly' keyword vehicles, and so a simple infantry squad can tie them up in CC. As others above note - mobility is key in competitive 40k. Guard infantry are often played static (Cadian) but are actually one of the fastest armies in the game (move, move, move) Psykers are the most points efficient way of putting wounds on high T targets. Basilisk is flat out broken. Speak to people who play against guard and it is hated. If taking one then make its detachment the Emperors Wrath artillery company for 1CP. The pounding barrage strategy lets you shoot twice with the basilisk. you get basically 2 basilisks for the price of 1. You can split regiments in one force. After fiddling around I like (personal preference) A Cadian gun line as one detachment. A Talharn screen/mobile detachment. Why Cadian? As posters above note Creed is great, as is warlord trait and his CP bonus essentially covers creating the Emperors Wrath company and use of strategem for a turn. Orders are 9", not 6", another overlooked but in game practically very valuable buff. He is also great if running two regiments as orders can't cross regiments, so gets you around the limits of 'rule of 3' for company commanders/ Why Talharn? Speed. I am having fun with talharn infantry with melta gun. The advance and shoot without penalty regiment trait essentially adds D6 (the advance move) to the melta range. The POTENTIAL threat of this means the squads become targets, pulling fire from gunline. If they do get in close they can really sting against high T/Wound models. I prefer two battalions over brigade. AM rarely struggles for CP! Sentinels are fine (the Fast Attack part of Brigade) but I prefer to use the 100+ points elsewhere. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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