Bolter Discipline Rule Impact on Blood Angels Armies

[Diagramdude]

Big if true... https://imgur.com/a/D2taoC4

 

All ADEPTUS ASTARTES and HERETIC ASTARTES models gain this ability. Instead of the normal rules for Rapid Fire weapons, Rapid Fire bolt weapons used by models with this ability make double the number of attacks if any of the following apply: 

• The firing model's target is within half the weapon's maximum range
  
• The firing model remained stationary during its previous Movement phase.
  
• The firing model is a TERMINATOR, BIKER, ?????, CENTURION, or VEHICLE.
  

[Jolemai]

So this tidbit would be from the next Big FAQ?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353256-new-beta-bolter-rules-in-next-months-white-dwarf/

 

zomg, hurricane bolters!!!

[Panzer]

So this tidbit would be from the next Big FAQ?

 

From the next WD apparently. Here in better quality:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353256-new-beta-bolter-rules-in-next-months-white-dwarf/?p=5238352

 

To be fair I don't think I'll benefit that often from the buff since vehicle rarely have rapid fire bolter weapons and my Intercessors want to be within 15" of the enemy or keep moving anyway. I also don't have any Terminators, Biker or Centurions in my Primaris army obviously.

If anything it made the decision easier whether I want to build a backfield unit with Stalker Bolt rifles or not ... trading 6" range and 1 AP for twice the shots is a no-brainer for me.

[Paladin777]

Hello tartaros terminators, nice to see you again! (8 shots each within 12” after deep striking with strike of the archangels FTW!)

[Panzer]

Hello tartaros terminators, nice to see you again! (8 shots each within 12” after deep striking with strike of the archangels FTW!)

 

Not really. You don't double the shots twice. It just expands on the Rapid fire rule. So the only thing that changed for Terminators is that they now always get to double tap and not just within 12".

[Xenith]

Hello tartaros terminators, nice to see you again! (8 shots each within 12” after deep striking with strike of the archangels FTW!)

I don't think you double the double - it just adds new qualifiers for rapid firing.

 

What it does mean is that terminators always get 4 storm bolter shots each at 24".

 

Edit: Ninjad

[durdle-durdle]

It’s nice and all, especially for deathwatch, thousand sons, or imperial fists (especially with infominatus crusaders detatchment). Idk if that helps blood angels that much. More shots is always nice, I guess.

[Karhedron]

Does this make Sternguard Veterans more appealing? I guess that still suffer in comparison to Intercessors who get twice as many wounds, are Troops and are now 1 point cheaper thanks to CA18. The only downside to Intercessors is that their bolt rifles are only AP-1 rather than the -2 of SIBGs.

[durdle-durdle]

Once the sternguard get into place, they would be amazing, especially with masterful marksmanship. I suppose if you wanted to, you could have them stand on an objective and put out good fire. Though, i’d Rather use intercessor troops, and other more punchy elite options.

[Indefragable]

Hmmm. The Adtartes’ slow crawl back to relativity in the meta begins?

[Panzer]

Who knows. Intercessors are roughly equal with T'au Firewarriors now if they don't move and shoot at targets >15". Within 15" or if they move Firewarriors are better again. Additionally Firewarriors basically always get played with a Cadre Fireblade that gives them an additional shot at half range.

So I don't think they are quite there yet. Maybe buffing it to Rapid fire 2 would've been the more fitting change after all.

[durdle-durdle]

Who knows. Intercessors are roughly equal with T'au Firewarriors now if they don't move and shoot at targets >15". Within 15" or if they move Firewarriors are better again. Additionally Firewarriors basically always get played with a Cadre Fireblade that gives them an additional shot at half range.

So I don't think they are quite there yet. Maybe buffing it to Rapid fire 2 would've been the more fitting change after all.

Regular marines with indominatus crusaders can do that. Not specifically blood angels, but my group is ok with allowing it to be used until blood angels get some sort of detatchment on their own

[Panzer]

That's true but it costs CP and Marines have a bit of a hard time getting those. And as you said BA can't use it officially so it doesn't even matter on tournaments.

[durdle-durdle]

True. Also, btw warhammer community just posted an article about this. Nothing different than what we already have here, but it’s confirmed now.

 

https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/posts/2221607308159896/

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

well for those of us relying on Lascanon Tactical squads, this is a nice change!

[Jolemai]

Just a FYI:

 

Discussion thread for rules in the beta forum:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353269-bolter-discipline/?do=findComment&comment=5238772

 

BA relevant stuff stays here :Tu:

[Indefragable]

Applies to SM as well, but I think when combined with the points drops to Dreads, BA dakka-ravens* just went up in usefulness:

 

-use the SR to power-wash away chaff

-drop a DC Dread (8" move + 3" disembark) with Blood Talons to be a truly nightmarish distraction carnifex that does not need support.

 

 

 

*Stormraven

-TL heavy bolter

-TL assault cannon

-2x hurricane bolters

[durdle-durdle]

More and More, I've been transitioning to using my blood angels as more or less "marines who punch better."  This buffs that style quite a bit, but I was starting to think today that this does very nicely buff a hammer and anvil type of army.  Setting up intercessors on front line of deployment in cover, they'll throw out 10 shots of ap-1 per turn, which isn't bad for their cost.  Especially when you consider how difficult they are to shift out of cover.  So turn 1-2, your intercessors and (possibly a pod of sternguard?) whatever else clear chaff the first two turns.  Turn 2-3 death company squads use descent of angels to hit whatever high value targets you've cleared the way for.  The beautiful thing about sternguard, IMO, is that with their special issue bolters, they can pod in somewhere in cover and likely still double tap.  Then after that turn, they double tap out 30", setting up a large area of the board they can punish.  Or if you have the opportunity, you can move forward, shoot, and charge because sternguard still have 2 attacks each for more chaff killing.

 

tl;dr-troops clear the way, then the punchy boys punch things

 

I think the new beta rule helps other armies much more than us (thousand sons, deathwatch, dark angels, imperial fists), but it is still very nice and helpful for the troops I already had to take who basically got their damage output doubled now.

[Panzer]

More and More, I've been transitioning to using my blood angels as more or less "marines who punch better." 

 

To be fair, that's pretty much exactly what they are. BA are very vanilla compared to Space Wolves with how they fight. ^^

[durdle-durdle]

-shrug- I bought blood angels because I liked to go fast and punch things, so at least for me it’s a big change to go more shooty.

[Mostwanted]

Rhino's with double Storm Bolters seem like they could be pretty good for support. 8 Bolter shots up to 24" isn't to shabby.

[lash144]

What's about including some scout bikes? 12 shots at +12 inch and 18 below. Plus they can fight okayish with there combat blades and red thirst + you could buff their durability with a SG ancient and the FnP banner.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I think, for BA at least, it's situational, not useless, just situational. For us the clear winners are the LRC, SR gunship, termies and bikes. Armies like DA, DW and IF and CF, using their bolter drill on centurions, are obviously clear winners, being able to build entire strategies around the rule. Also it kind of makes SB upgrades on vehicles a no brainer if you've got spare points. Also its worth noting that ATM, the rule is free, with no point or CP cost associated with it, although this may change come CA, with a point increase for the cost of the weapon or the marine carrying it.

[Xenith]

What's about including some scout bikes? 12 shots at +12 inch and 18 below. 

 

Scout bikes have been great in 8th ed - this makes them even better!

[Karhedron]

Also its worth noting that ATM, the rule is free, with no point or CP cost associated with it, although this may change come CA, with a point increase for the cost of the weapon or the marine carrying it.

A points change for most Marines seems unlikely since the purpose of the rule seems to be to address that they are currently rather underpowered. Having said that, I can see an adjustment to Hurricane bolters if they start flooding the meta (or just an amendment that Hurricane Bolters do not benefit from the rule).