Bolter Discipline Rule Impact on Blood Angels Armies

[Xenith]

 

A points change for most Marines seems unlikely since the purpose of the rule seems to be to address that they are currently rather underpowered. Having said that, I can see an adjustment to Hurricane bolters if they start flooding the meta (or just an amendment that Hurricane Bolters do not benefit from the rule).

 

 

I don't think we'll see that. HurB's are hardly overpowered as it is, and only available on what, 5 platforms across 4 codexes?

 

Crusader, Ironclad, Stornraven, Storm Wolf, Dark Angels flyer thing?

 

Of these, all want to get up close to deliver cargo or get in combat other than the DA flyer, so the rule adds maybe 12 bolter shots per unit per game.

[Bonzi]

The bennefits to BA are mostly minimal and really only affect camping units. To get the extra shots at 24" the unit can not be moved. It's pretty unlikely that a LRC or Bikers will sit in one spot just to get some extra Bolter shots at long range, I'd rather move them forward and get the double tap because I'm in half range.

 

The winners are camping Dev, Tac, Scout, and Intercessor squads who are sitting back to hold objectives. Now their extra Bolter bodies can kick out a bit more firepower. Same with Lascannon Razorbacks with a couple extra storm bolters strapped on or a Storm Raven that drops into hovermode after delivering it's cargo. Terminators, Sternguard, and Intercessors are the real winners of this rule.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the bonus and it's a good idea but BA don't really gunline so we're not gonna get super milage out of this like other chapters. I wish bolt pistols had gotten some love out of this too.

[Karhedron]

To get the extra shots at 24" the unit can not be moved. It's pretty unlikely that a LRC or Bikers will sit in one spot just to get some extra Bolter shots at long range, I'd rather move them forward and get the double tap because I'm in half range.

Not quite right. the new conditions for the double-tap are:

 

1) Within half-range (as per current rules)

2) OR Remained stationary

3) OR Vehicle, Bike, Terminator.

 

This means that your LRC and bikes (and Terminators) can now move as normal and still double-tap out to full 24" range.

[Are Verlo]

A suprising number of people have read the bolter beta rule wrong!?

 

Anyway it is a small but welcome buff to vehicle mounted storm bolters.

[Thoridon]

I really will have to look at building some Scout Bikes after this for infantry clearing/harassment. For a min size squad of 3:

 

12.1" - 24" range = 12x S4 shots

6.1" - 12" range = 18x S4 shots

< 6" range = 12x S4 shots, 6x S5 shots

Charge = 8x S4 attacks (if you swap the sergeant's bolt pistol for a chainsword)

 

Heck, add just 2 extra bikes and for a bit over 100pts and you get 20x S4 shots up to 24" on the move with a 16" move attribute to get them where you need them, an effective threat range of 40". That's a lot of infantry they can harass. If you really need some infantry killing quickly you can then close in to use the shotguns and charge.

[Lemondish]

Not quite right. the new conditions for the double-tap are:

 

1) Within half-range (as per current rules)

2) OR Remained stationary

3) OR Vehicle, Bike, Terminator.

 

This means that your LRC and bikes (and Terminators) can now move as normal and still double-tap out to full 24" range.

Just to clarify, the rule triggers if any of those conditions apply, which I think is something people keep missing as well.

[Indefragable]

In terms of overall Strategy for BA, these beta better bolter bills (tried to keep it all b's) reinforce the Starburst playstyle:

 

Group up in a gunline, maximize Capt/LT/FnP bubbles, let the enemy suffer your guns while crashing upon you, then use mobility to counter-assault/encircle and chop him to pieces.

[Orblivion]

Speaking of bikes, I've never really considered using a Sanguinary Priest Biker but I want one now.  

[Majkhel]

Speaking of bikes, I've never really considered using a Sanguinary Priest Biker but I want one now.  

We have to remember that it's not a Codex option.

[Charlo]

In terms of overall Strategy for BA, these beta better bolter bills (tried to keep it all b's) reinforce the Starburst playstyle:

 

Group up in a gunline, maximize Capt/LT/FnP bubbles, let the enemy suffer your guns while crashing upon you, then use mobility to counter-assault/encircle and chop him to pieces.

 

For sure. Primaris are also a very good anvil for this sort of play now. With the FNP banner they are pretty tough to shift. Add in Apothecary and the standard that lets them shoot when they die for some now pretty good shooting from longer range casualties.

 

Not to mention our combat bonus occurs when we are charged too, so we can hit back hard!

[lash144]

Really interesting ideas I have to say! What kind of units do you use as your anvil in this playstyle?

[Pippolele]

In terms of overall Strategy for BA, these beta better bolter bills (tried to keep it all b's) reinforce the Starburst playstyle:

 

Group up in a gunline, maximize Capt/LT/FnP bubbles, let the enemy suffer your guns while crashing upon you, then use mobility to counter-assault/encircle and chop him to pieces.

"Starburst"?

Where is the name coming from?

[Xenith]

 

Not quite right. the new conditions for the double-tap are:

 

1) Within half-range (as per current rules)

2) OR Remained stationary

3) OR Vehicle, Bike, Terminator.

 

This means that your LRC and bikes (and Terminators) can now move as normal and still double-tap out to full 24" range.

Just to clarify, the rule triggers if any of those conditions apply, which I think is something people keep missing as well.

 

 

Many people seem to think that the double shots rule triggers each time one of those conditions are met - so a terminator gets 4 shots, a terminator at 12" gets 8 shots, and a terminator standing still at 12" gets 16 shots.

[Thoridon]

Many people seem to think that the double shots rule triggers each time one of those conditions are met - so a terminator gets 4 shots, a terminator at 12" gets 8 shots, and a terminator standing still at 12" gets 16 shots.

Then many people would be wrong The rule is quite clear, the weapon gets double shots "if any of the following apply".

 

If it doubled for each one it would specifically say to double the number of shots "for each of the following that applies".

[Karhedron]

"Starburst"?

Where is the name coming from?

Farscape?

 

 

In a 40K context, I have only heard it once or twice. You have a castled-up blob of a gunline with embedded characters (or other scary units just behind) which is your "star". When threatened with melee, the CC elements "burst" out to counter-charge and protect the gunline.

[Indefragable]

 

In terms of overall Strategy for BA, these beta better bolter bills (tried to keep it all b's) reinforce the Starburst playstyle:

 

Group up in a gunline, maximize Capt/LT/FnP bubbles, let the enemy suffer your guns while crashing upon you, then use mobility to counter-assault/encircle and chop him to pieces.

"Starburst"?

Where is the name coming from?

 

 

"Starburst"?

Where is the name coming from?

Farscape?

 

 

In a 40K context, I have only heard it once or twice. You have a castled-up blob of a gunline with embedded characters (or other scary units just behind) which is your "star". When threatened with melee, the CC elements "burst" out to counter-charge and protect the gunline.

 

 

 

 

Not sure if I coined the term (I don't care/no ego on my part), but I think I've been the one reinforcing its use.

 

As @Karhedronuk mentioned, the idea of a "Starburst" is that you group up at first and then "explode" outwards afterwards.

 

The idea is that you maximize auras on shooty units first and/or draw the enemy in close enough that you can use superior mobility to either "pounce" on the enemy once in range or break off and kite him around the board.

 

Modern day concept (lol @ the music):

[Jolemai]

Starburst is what Opal Fruits are called these days...

 

Moving on, I quite like that the Master-crafted Bolter also benefits from this change - but is it still worth the extra point over a storm bolter? Quibbling over a point, I know :facepalm:

[Karhedron]

Not sure if I coined the term (I don't care/no ego on my part), but I think I've been the one reinforcing its use.

 

As @Karhedronuk mentioned, the idea of a "Starburst" is that you group up at first and then "explode" outwards afterwards.

 

The idea is that you maximize auras on shooty units first and/or draw the enemy in close enough that you can use superior mobility to either "pounce" on the enemy once in range or break off and kite him around the board.

The problem with this idea is the new missions in CA2018 which look like they might be adopted for ITC events. With scoring happening every turn and being based largely on objectives, castling up beyond T1 is going to be counter-productive. Horde armies like Orks aren't even going to need to bother trying to assault as, they can simply camp on 3-4 objectives and laugh at us as we try to whittle them down with shooting.

 

Starburst works well for traditional missions but I am not sure how much longer these are going to be around in competitive play. Going forward, it looks like we will have to spread out and do it early or we will fall behind in the VP race. I haven't played enough games yet but I have a hunch this type of mission will prove tough on Marines. We will not be able to castle-up. We will be forced to spread our mediocre Troop units around the board to contest objectives which risks them being taken apart piecemeal by more elite armies and simply drowned by horde armies. Marines risk becoming the squeezed middle. Not cheap enough to spam but not tough enough to compete with the real elites.

 

This is all just theory-crafting of course and experience may prove me wrong. Perhaps transports will become more valuable as you have to crack the shell first before you can eat the nuts inside.

[Xenith]

 

Many people seem to think that the double shots rule triggers each time one of those conditions are met - so a terminator gets 4 shots, a terminator at 12" gets 8 shots, and a terminator standing still at 12" gets 16 shots.

Then many people would be wrong The rule is quite clear,

 

I didn't say they were right 

[Charlo]

Starburst is what Opal Fruits are called these days...

 

Moving on, I quite like that the Master-crafted Bolter also benefits from this change - but is it still worth the extra point over a storm bolter? Quibbling over a point, I know

 Do you want quality or quantity?

 

SB will shred light guys at 24", but a MCB will put fewer, bigger dents in the heavy ones at the same range.

[Drunken Angel]

Deep strike in 5 Company Veterans with storm shield and stormbolters, sure only 5 in the squad but at 12" that's 20 Bolter shots on a durable platform.

[Panzer]

Deep strike in 5 Company Veterans with storm shield and stormbolters, sure only 5 in the squad but at 12" that's 20 Bolter shots on a durable platform.

 

That has literally nothing to do with Bolter Discipline though? We could do this before already.

[brother_b]

It's cool, it's a bonus, but for me the true value for this new rule is only on death watch and intercessors. Sure termies are great also but im not sure I'll use them any time soon and I already have intercessors.

 

I'll take advantage of the rule when I can but will continue to focus on delivering my melee units with up close support.

[Charlo]

Deep strike in 5 Company Veterans with storm shield and stormbolters, sure only 5 in the squad but at 12" that's 20 Bolter shots on a durable platform.

If anything the point now would be that you can forego the cost of jump packs and stand back!

[keeblerartillery]

It isn’t 20 shots - it’s 40 shots on a durable platform at 12 inch range. That is pretty neat. My scout bikes with stormbolter sergeant just got filthy - 36 shots at 12 inches. In an uncrowded slot.