PeteySödes Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Threads are everywhere but thought we could talk about how it effects us! I for one think this make WGTDA pack leaders almost mandatory. I was taking them anyways but this seals the deal IMO. My regular lists got ~10 more shots per turn not even changing tactics which is amazing. Minimum pointed SB/SS tanks pumping 4 shots on the move is slick. I think we need to me on the move too much for this change to effect our PA bolters TOO much but its still very nice in those events where you can lock an obj. I also think WG TDA squads have a place now too, not just the TH/SS assault builds either. I think a deepstriking enemy deployment zone SS/SB squad being able to reach out 24" is very tempting and will be really hard to shift. This also makes SB upgrades on our transports a no brainer (as if anyone wasnt anyways). Outflanking Scout bikes also got a bit safer too which is cool. Am I missing anything? What do we think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Grey Hunters and Intercessors both got a modest (but welcome) boost from this. Intercessors probably benefit more as they work better as Objective campers while my Grey Hunters tend to move up the field. Does make Blood Claws that little bit less relevant in the Troops stakes though. Anyone running Storm Bolter WG Bikers from the Index will be grinning for days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Grey Hunters and Intercessors both got a modest (but welcome) boost from this. Intercessors probably benefit more as they work better as Objective campers while my Grey Hunters tend to move up the field. Does make Blood Claws that little bit less relevant in the Troops stakes though. Yea totally, I previously was taking stalkers for my backfield campers if i took intercessors but the beta rule makes me rethink that for sure. Anyone running Storm Bolter WG Bikers from the Index will be grinning for days. Bahaha yea thats going to be broken and awesome. Eat your heart out Vertus Praetors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 more sign that Russ and the Allfather want me to implement my new rune priest bomb list The escort terminator meat shield will get 24" rapid fire SB range Sweet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I feel like I missed something what are you guys talking about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrFlur Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I feel like I missed something what are you guys talking about? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=e9459025a5-GW_21st_January_Funko_Pop_ENG&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-e9459025a5-120876869#gallery-6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Yeah, I looked at that rule, looked at my WG bikers, did the math and wondered... "Is this what Eldar players feel like?"Those bikes combined with a cheap WGTDA firebase in the enemy backfield could be a lot of fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 more sign that Russ and the Allfather want me to implement my new rune priest bomb list The escort terminator meat shield will get 24" rapid fire SB range Sweet Yeah, for sure. I liked the idea of ten SB/SS as a distraction Carnifex/extremely tough objective holder. Now they're going to be damn tough and spitting out chaff killing firepower at twice the range! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Without Primaris I don't see myself holding Grey Hunters stationary too often. But this is great for Termie Storm Bolters and amazing for my LRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So, the thing that is unclear on that page though, is. Do we still use the RF value in the weapon definitions? The Beta rule says it replaces the Rapid Fire rule completely. I think the answer is yes, use the RF value in the stat line, but then again I also want 8 shots a turn per bike, so... I may not be the most objective when it comes to interpretation. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 The rule extends the parameters for getting to double tap. It does not allow quadruple tap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 That doesn't answer the question. The rule reads. "... double the number of attacks if any of the following apply: etc..." If the base number is always 1 and we are always just doubling 1, that wording isn't necessary. If we are still using the RF value, the number of attacks for a Storm Bolter is 2, and doubling it goes to 4. If we aren't using the RF value anymore, the number of attacks on ANY of the relevant Bolt Weapons is 1, and we are doubling it to 2.The distinction matters and it's unclear if the existing RF values are still used at all.So, either every relevant Bolt Weapon is now essentially RF1 with new trigger possibilities, and the RF2 weapons actually got a downgrade.or every relevant Bolt Weapon is now essentially RF1 with new trigger possibilities, and the RF2 weapons are super good now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 It says you use these rules instead of Rapid Fire. So instead of doubling your shots at half range, you double your shots if any of those conditions are met. Boltguns go from 1 to 2 and Storm Bolters go from 2 to 4. But Boltguns at 12" do not get 4 shots because they have this new rule "instead" of Rapid Fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 The rule extends the parameters for getting to double tap. It does not allow quadruple tap.Correct, I made the same mistake initially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I never thought baseline bolters would get 4 shots.I was trying to sort if the RF2 weapons were getting 4 shots because that's not immediately apparent. 4 shots on a regular bolter is kinda an insane interpretation. I guess my answer is yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Thanks grflur. That is an interesting change... in think wolf guard bikes might be super awesome now Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So WGPL in TDA with SB/SS is just 27 points now for a 2-wound 2+/3++ model that always gets 4 bolter shots out to 24". He should be able to tank quite a bit of firepower for the squad. Is that actually better than the regular WGPL in PA with combi-plas? Cheaper and a lot tankier although less offense. Which would you choose and why? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratherdashing Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I never thought baseline bolters would get 4 shots. I was trying to sort if the RF2 weapons were getting 4 shots because that's not immediately apparent. 4 shots on a regular bolter is kinda an insane interpretation. I guess my answer is yes. Oh I gotcha. I wasn't trying to be dismissive; a lot of people seemed to be thinking we got both the new and old rapid fire rules stacking. It's an easy miss. Anyway, the rule does say double shots, not two shots, so Storm Bolters and most importantly (to me) Hurricane Bolters get to unleash the fury right from 24". It makes me a little sad I gave my Dreadnought an underslung Heavy Flamer years ago. (That flamer is pricey, too...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I just wanted to make sure that between the storm bolters and the twin bolters my bikes are in fact generating 8x 24 inch shots per turn. Each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 So WGPL in TDA with SB/SS is just 27 points now for a 2-wound 2+/3++ model that always gets 4 bolter shots out to 24". He should be able to tank quite a bit of firepower for the squad. Is that actually better than the regular WGPL in PA with combi-plas? Cheaper and a lot tankier although less offense. Which would you choose and why? Ive been consistently choosing tank. The amount of hatred i get when making saving throws on that SS terminator makes it so worth it. I still like plasma but i dont rely on my troops to kill, i rely on them for board control and objectives so the TDA tank makes them so much better at that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 As the day goes on I'm hearing from my 40K friends with other marine armies. It turns out one of the somewhat unique things our codex has is a bunch of SS/SB terminator options. Apparently not everyone can do that. We will be able to leverage this beta rule with the recent SS drop in points better than most other marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 TDAWG are unique: they're the only Terminators that can run Shield plus [ranged weapon]. Edit: 10 TDAWG with Storm Shield and Storm Bolter cost only 270pts, and that's gets you 20W with 2+/3++, 40 Bolter shots at 24" and 21 melee attacks. Slap in Arjac and a Wolf Lord with Wulfen Stone, and you've got 40 Bolter shots and 41 melee attacks - that's some significant horde shredding firepower while being damn resilient. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 TDAWG are unique: they're the only Terminators that can run Shield plus [ranged weapon]. Edit: 10 TDAWG with Storm Shield and Storm Bolter cost only 270pts, and that's gets you 20W with 2+/3++, 40 Bolter shots at 24" and 21 melee attacks. Slap in Arjac and a Wolf Lord with Wulfen Stone, and you've got 40 Bolter shots and 41 melee attacks - that's some significant horde shredding firepower while being damn resilient. Makes an old wolf long for the days where Logan made our WGTDA count as troops That would make for one hell of a meta in the current edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStabby Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Yeah, I think us, Deathwatch and Those blue guys who "did nothing wrong" are probably the 3 big winners here. GK with their psybolts as well potentially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5238981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturguard Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 So let me ask you guys this, I like the idea of our terminators as well, but with the overabundance of plasma, do you think terminators are overkill? So 10 terminators with ss/sb is 270 10 WG with jump packs, sb and ss are 230. The difference is with the terminators you get 10 more wounds (except against multiwound weapons of course)- the jump packs give you 40 extra points to play with and much greater mobility. I am just getting back into the game but it seems like there is alot of multiwound weapons which negate that extra wound- thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353265-bolter-drill-beta/#findComment-5239131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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