Bolter Drill Beta

[PeteySödes]

IMO the mobility is nice but if your talking purely about exploiting the beta rule that JP squad won’t get to use it a ton.

 

It depends on the role. In the land of loyal 32s and orks I see a DSing squad of terminators being absolutely lethal if you use them to harass their deployment zone where typically soft obj holders live.

 

Against orks and other hordes too that T2 drop is likely to peel a chunk of the tide off that your main force then doesn’t need to worry about for a time. Neither squad is an auto include now but speaking directly to the new rule terminators benifit more and I feel could be totally usable.

[Kallas]

Multi damage weapons do hurt them, but with good positioning one can minimise their effect.

 

If you deep strike to cut line of sight from a good chunk of the enemy's force, then proceed to hose down one backline unit (thanks to 24" RF), then charge the nearest, you're potentially able to create significant local superiority.

 

270pts isn't that much, and even against a proliferation of Plasma they still get a 3++ which will significantly curtail losses. If you slap on a Rune Priest for Cloaked by the Storm I think they'd make a great bullet sponge (even better if the opponent is running one big shooty thing like a Castellan which you can slap Tempest's Wrath on!)

[sturguard]

Anyone have suggestions for storm bolters for my MKIII armored Wolfguard with jump packs? I want something that looks dated, unlike the modern storm bolters.

 

Thanks!

[PeteySödes]

Combis from the heresy terminator kits. You’d want to swap the hands but it’d be minimal work.

[sturguard]

I was thinking more third party stuff

[CaptainStabby]

If you want mobility you put them on bikes tbh. 5 toughness 3 wounds 3++ 8 shots a turn. It's well worth the extra 11 points per model.

 

[sturguard]

2 wound right, not 3?

[sturguard]

So this is probably not a popular choice, but what about swiftclaw attack bikes. Yes, I know they are BS 4 and have no invul but... 35 pts, for 7 shots (4 24 inch bolter shots and 3 heavy bolter shots), t5 and 4 wounds. You go back to the terminator comparison. 270 pts for 10 termies- that would get you roughly 8 attack bikes, for 32 wounds, 33 percent more. It would also give you 56 shots granted at BS 4, but there are ways to improve that. Also, each could be a separate unit, so you can control more of the board and more command points (if you wanted).

 

So what do you guys think for storm bolters for MK3 marines, here are some options-

https://www.shapeways.com/product/3C9XV3DYV/blitzpistols-5-left-5-right?optionId=64790578

https://www.shapeways.com/product/L7T6GJ7CS/10x-rapfire-tb2d?optionId=60193385

https://www.shapeways.com/product/72Q28GHJN/10x-rapfire-gl-mk2?optionId=64790728

https://www.shapeways.com/product/5HY5MDBJK/10x-rapfire-tb2d-assault?optionId=64572963 

[Kallas]

Swiftclaws' BS4+ is a big downside, but even moreso for the Attack Bikes where they're functionally BS5+ when moving.

 

Compared to (any kind of) Wolf Guard, they also lack access to an invulnerable save, so those wounds will vanish quickly.

 

Major pass.

[CaptainStabby]

2 wound right, not 3?

ah, yup good catch, was readint TWC earlier they have the 3w.

 

Still stands

[Karhedron]

So let me ask you guys this, I like the idea of our terminators as well, but with the overabundance of plasma, do you think terminators are overkill?

 

So 10 terminators with ss/sb is 270

 

10 WG with jump packs, sb and ss are 230. 

 

The difference is with the terminators you get 10 more wounds (except against multiwound weapons of course)- the jump packs give you 40 extra points to play with and much greater mobility. I am just getting back into the game but it seems like there is alot of multiwound weapons which negate that extra wound- thoughts?

Tough call. The mobility is a useful thing if you can hide the WG out of LOS and then jump them into a firing position T1. Terminators either need to walk or come in from Reserve on T2 so the Jump Packers can potentially start shooting earlier (somewhat dependent on deployment of course).

 

Terminators are much more resilient against small-arms and horde attacks. 2 wounds at 2+ means it takes 4 times as many Ap-0 hits to kill them as power armour dudes. Of course plasma (and its equivalents) will dent that efficiency.

 

Jump Packers can jump out of melee and still fire while Terminators can be bogged down. There is no right answer and I think both are viable. WG Bikers are the real winners IMHO if you are willing to run an Index option.

[Guest]

I would like to throw some cynicism in here and say this:

 

These are beta rules, so before everyone runs out and cuts their hands off all their Marines to equip storm bolters, that these rules may change. Personally I for see bikers and vehicles being removed from the rules, but termies staying. It is obvious GW is trying to bring some power into the SM infantry and iconic weapons. I just see bikers and vehicles (especially LR Crusader) to be a little overturned with this rule.

 

Edit: for those that run tourneys though, abuse this rule as much as you can. Show the horde factions what it's like to receive 40+ shots in one volley.

[Karhedron]

Beta rules have been tweaked before (e.g. GKs and Smite) but generally the core principles of the rules have carried through. Given that no one was running Land Raiders before CA2018 anyway, I don't see giving the LRC a little love as being bad. It gets 12 extra bolter shots at 12-24" range. That is handy but it is only the firepower of a small Tactical squad so I don't think it will break the meta.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I gotta say suddenly 2 points more per rhino for a total of 8 shots at 24 looks well worth it.

[sturguard]

So I just want to make sure I am getting the beta rule right. The rule doesnt give any additional shots, Grey Hunters could already use their bolters to rapid fire for 2 shots each when they were inside half range.

 

The rule is just saying that terminators, bikes and vehicles DONT have to be inside half range to double tap and marines that dont move can double tap their full 24 inches...

 

Is that correct?

[Nadir]

Yes

[TiguriusX]

So I just want to make sure I am getting the beta rule right. The rule doesnt give any additional shots, Grey Hunters could already use their bolters to rapid fire for 2 shots each when they were inside half range.

 

The rule is just saying that terminators, bikes and vehicles DONT have to be inside half range to double tap and marines that dont move can double tap their full 24 inches...

 

Is that correct?

 

One of the biggest things this does is boost your rear objective sitting Intercessors with a bolt rifle

 

They double their AP1 firepower and can reach out to 30"

 

Everyone should be taking them to fill a battalion and serve rear guard duty.  It is almost a must have default option now

 

 

The other major thing it does is make TDA doubly effective from 12-24"

This may bring more TDA back to general lists....I had already brought my WG TDA for other reasons but this will make mine MUCH more effective and convinced me to run them as SB/SS instead of spending extra points for other options

 

 

Both of those are big deals in a horde and chaff filled meta

[Guest Triszin]

really happy I built all my reivers with bolt carbines.

 

this makes them into better harassment units

[Guest]

really happy I built all my reivers with bolt carbines.

 

this makes them into better harassment units

Bolt carbines are assault though, it gains nothing from this.

[Guest Triszin]

 

really happy I built all my reivers with bolt carbines.

 

this makes them into better harassment units

Bolt carbines are assault though, it gains nothing from this.

 

ya, I got it mixed up :(

[Guest]

 

 

really happy I built all my reivers with bolt carbines.

this makes them into better harassment units

 

Bolt carbines are assault though, it gains nothing from this.

ya, I got it mixed up :(

I wish more bolters got benefits from this. I feel as though all space Marine Bolter were behind and if this keep does get approved then there is no reason to choose anything for say intercessors(since they have a varied Bolter option). Lose 6 inches and -1AP for double shots, it's an easy choice.

[Karack Blackstone]

Well.

 

This does raise in my mind a very important question: SW's get their Heroic Intervention when being charged, this does mean guessing between camping an objective and charging forth to prevent the enemy from having the initial advantage to press just became even more difficult to figure out, at least for me.

 

Bolter Drill I think is here to stay. I will wonder if it becomes a 1 CP thing, eventually. I hope not; the points as they exist right now do not support the need for CP's to use this rule.

 

Intercessors seriously need some Rhino equivalent now. A cheap ride to get a tan man pack around with some minimal firepower, oh wait, another Boltgun weapon, would certainly help.

 

I love the idea of the Repulsor, but it's just way too expensive right now. As per the above, some Primaris Rhino equivalent would go a very long way.

[PeteySödes]

Well.

 

This does raise in my mind a very important question: SW's get their Heroic Intervention when being charged, this does mean guessing between camping an objective and charging forth to prevent the enemy from having the initial advantage to press just became even more difficult to figure out, at least for me.

 

 

Thats a really weird case though. Are you camping obj with a solo character that doesnt get charged but is close enough to intervene? 

[CaptainStabby]

Edit: for those that run tourneys though, abuse this rule as much as you can. Show the horde factions what it's like to receive 40+ shots in one volley.

NEXT VOLLEY!!!!

[Beams]

I can see barebones Space Wolf terminators with stormshield and stormbolter at 27 pts a price being worth starting on the board or if ideal, deepstriking by an objective.

 

Not much is going to kill them, and they put out a consistent 20 shots, and could hold an objective super well, since anything scary enough to displace them is going to cost well over 135 pts.