Bolter Drill Beta

[Karack Blackstone]

Are you speaking of a five man pack? Because that's going to be terrifying to deal with for the enemy.

 

135 to shift a 2+/3++ 10 Wound unit with 20 shots if they don't move is certainly going to be an uphill battle for the opponent.

[One Two Wolf]

I don't think the 'didn't move' applies to termies. They get double shots just for being in TDA. Don't they?

[PeteySödes]

I don't think the 'didn't move' applies to termies. They get double shots just for being in TDA. Don't they?

 

Yep.

[Karhedron]

You probably don't even need the entire squad to have SS. One Power fist is cheap enough now to be worth including just so the squad can deal some damage to anything your opponent tries to send after it in melee.

[sturguard]

Karhedronuk,

I would warrant even 2. With just storm bolters if you face a mech heavy list, they will ignore you. If you are advancing and have weapons that can crack open armor, they are forced to deal with you.

[Beams]

I mean, my thought was just to keep them cheap, move them on objectives and force someone to knock them off, but a couple power fists in there would be pretty good too haha

[One Two Wolf]

All of a sudden my termies are back as a top priority. I can see 2 5 man squads coming with 3xSB/SS and two with SB and chainfist. Maybe one assault cannon as well; just got 200 magnets so it seems likely...

 

I see them with this beta rule as horde consumers and highly durable, worthwhile picks. Fabulous models to build and paint and I really don't think are too pricey to field - if ten cost too much use eight!

[Akela]

A pity that Cavalry are not included on the list along with bikers. Bolter and Storm Shield Thundercav would be an interestinf distraction.

[Guest Triszin]

So tartaros termis, are they worth it, with the combination bolters builds over the SS sb?

[sturguard]

I was looking at that too. I dont think so, they are more expensive, and dont have the 3+ save.

[Guest]

Isn't tartaros more at home in melee? I would think cataphractii would be better for Bolter.

 

Cataphractii with Combi Bolter+lightning claw is 36 points, has 4++ (+1pt gives you a power fist)

 

Normal termie with Combi+SS is 27 points, has 3++, but no melee weapon.

 

So spends 9 points on one less 1++ but has melee weapons.

[Kallas]

There is a world of difference between 4++ and 3++, though. Hell, the ubiquitous Smash Captains come with a 4++ stock, yet people (myself very much included) are happy to pay a premium for +1++ - because it's a massive improvement.

 

Statistically, it's not a 16% improvement: it's a 33% increase in saves made/reduction in saves failed. It's the same reason Sv2+ is a huge improvement over Sv3+, as that's halving the amount of damage taken from AP0.

 

Cataphractii are certainly a decent idea, although I would hazard a guess that Terminators with anything more expensive than SB/SS will be very difficult to get good value out of. 36ppm isn't the worst thing ever, and they'll get good value out of their SBs, but they'll struggle to get serious value out of their PFs. They're slow and don't actually hit that hard.

 

Personally, I'd recommend more that you sprinkle in a couple of Thunder Hammers into the SB/SS Indomitus Terminators' unit for some real punch. Three TH is only 42pts but gives you 7A with them, and if one were bringing Arjac and/or Stone then that jumps up to 11, which is plenty respectable - three TH makes a ten man unit cost 312, which doesn't seem too bad to me for the resilience, anti-horde firepower and some anti-armour potential.

[Jackalwolf]

What about cataphractii with storm bolters and power fist, still get 4++ and now the unit is a beast to hold objectives or destroy anything in melee.

[Kallas]

What about cataphractii with storm bolters and power fist, still get 4++ and now the unit is a beast to hold objectives or destroy anything in melee.

Pretty sure that's what Jarl Caldersson and I just had an exchange about 

[Bulwyf]

I had kinda written off my LRC before this because the Stormwolf is such a better transport option. I still think it is the better option but the LRC can definitely put out some more dakka. Is anyone else tempted to put LRC into a list to see how it works?

[PeteySödes]

I had kinda written off my LRC before this because the Stormwolf is such a better transport option. I still think it is the better option but the LRC can definitely put out some more dakka. Is anyone else tempted to put LRC into a list to see how it works?

 

Yea definitely! Im a sucker for the old gal, but i think the roles are different though. I'll still use the Stormwolf to deliver wulfen like a speartip since they cant ruin its movement, but the LRC to me would be great with some terminators. That amount of dakka now that even if they take it down the WG inside can still have a 24" threat is pretty sweet.

 

It make my old hearts really happy.

[Karhedron]

I think that if the CA2018 style of mission becomes common (and apparently they are being adopted by ITC) we may see a resurgence in unit like the LRC.

 

Continuous scoring means that we need to be able to get units to Objectives and keep them alive there. The LRC is pretty much the premiere transport in the game. It can hose hordes off objectives and sit tight on them. If your enemy has no Troops, you can disgorge a cheap unit of Hunters to super-score.

 

Land Raiders have always struggled in a meta where people bring the firepower to take down Knights. But Knights struggle in objective games so they may no longer remain the gate-keeper army that they are now.

 

I still think the new missions and end of Sudden Death are the biggest "sleeper change" in CA2018. If they become widely adopted, it may trigger a shift in the meta that would make units like Land Raiders a bit more relevant.

 

All just theory-crafting of course.