Qui-Gon Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/21st-jan-introducing-better-beta-boltersgw-homepage-post-4/?fbclid=IwAR1pUPU5gZFX4hrnu-96T0aPhsfejEc-J45YNei7Yrnsf71hvHIpQYgb_DA So its official as of now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I think my terminator captain just went to the top of the queue. 4 Banebolt shots hitting on 2's re rolling 1s at up to 30 inches is really good. It's now a lot easier to deep strike him and simultaneously apply his captains buff and fire all of his shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 oohf. Those terminators just got alot more dank IMO. 18" 4 shots of -2 ap each? that's ridiculous. also, It solves the question of rapid fire versus assault bolters for primaris marines for me. If they ever do decide to allow deathwatch to get the indominatus crusaders detatchment, I think they might be broken, honestly. I was considering selling my blood angels in favor of deathwatch or thousand sons, and this pretty much seals the deal, I think. It's a beta rule, but this is only going to get positive feedback. Now i just need to decide which brand of marines i want... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris521 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 It certainly could make a difference with terminators. They now have the ability to use Vengeance rounds after a deepstrike, something that vets can't do. Don't know if I'd take them alone, but between this and the price decrease, they are much better than they were 2 months ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qui-Gon Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 An argument can now be made for 5 man Terminator units with power swords to deep strike. 20 vengence rounds at 18" for 170 pts is a tempting thing for also 10 wounds 2+/5++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kargrym Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 It does make me question if I should even bother with Deathwatch Stalker Pattern Bolters since it's Heavy 2, I could get just as much out of Primaris Bolt Rifles but 2x the wounds unless I want to give them storm shields but that seems silly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Knight Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 With this change it really blurrs the lines, but I still would want one group of Vets so I can add missile launcher vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewatch Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Yes. Looks like it's time to build&paint the rest of my Deathwatch Bikers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 RIP any type of weapon besides storm bolters for old marines or bolt rifles for primaris lol. stalker bolt rifles back to being a joke in DW (probably everywhere). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5238959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidNinja Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So storm bolters are the biggest boost by this (still a beta rule which locals don't play) stalkers now have 1 movement and 1 ap of advantage, the ap is insignificant when you are doubling your shots... So I need more storm bolters for my backfield squads now... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 They definitely have not even been thinking how these changes affect DW and have focused solely on SM. I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think we're becoming too OP. Possibly encroaching on 7th ed Tau levels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Not even close - if it really bothers play another faction . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 They definitely have not even been thinking how these changes affect DW and have focused solely on SM. I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think we're becoming too OP. Possibly encroaching on 7th ed Tau levels. I mean 20 pts for stormbolters and stormshield is pretty intense, since they can camp an objective at fire 4 Str 4 Ap -1 shots at 30". Especially since a watch master grants full rerolls... So that could be potentially awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I can't believe I'm saying this...but I think we're becoming too OP. Possibly encroaching on 7th ed Tau levels. I wouldn't go that far. Knocking off AM/Knights from king of the hill is a major feat. However, I think we will actually start to see marines on competitive tables. Especially since someone recently took 2nd at a big tournament with stormbolter/stormshield vets and that was before these changes. I also expect to see bikes units of 2x3 and at least a unit of terminators. The terminators you can safely deepstrike put of charge range but still lay the hurt thanks to SIA, and bikes may be able to kite some units while still bringing some pain. They may still be totally awful though so who knows. Maybe some primaris as well. Thousand Son lists might actually feature Rubrics or Terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Not even close - if it really bothers play another faction . It's important to realize when things go too far, and I actually might. Or at least really neuter my list to make it more fun. Even before this update after CA 2018, I've been tabling my opponents extremely easily within 2-3 turns while losing minimal forces, and it hasn't been fun for either side. The only real threat are mortal wounds, and in those cases I just turtled. This makes it even easier to turtle now. Guess I'll go full board on Orks for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Try to find better opponents. That is my humble advice. What do you guys think is the optimal size for a bike squad ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Haha, I see... I mean 20 pts for stormbolters and stormshield is pretty intense, since they can camp an objective at fire 4 Str 4 Ap -1 shots at 30". Especially since a watch master grants full rerolls... So that could be potentially awesome. This was one of my thoughts as well. In cover, that's a killzone of 30" with 2+/3++. If highground cover placement goes right, then no one is coming into our base now. Terminators can also sit in towers and enjoy negating -1 AP, and it mitigates their poor movement a bit as well if we move them out. Bikers are kind of eh still; it helps them, but they're still only average as it wasn't something they desperately needed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr4Minutes Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think talks of this making DW op are a little unfounded. I don’t run odds, but if I’m using kraken rounds for range I’m not using hellfire for wounding on 2+, which till now has been the bread and butter. I think this just opens up even more potential options for us to use, which is always good. So far the past 2 months have been good to DeathWatch. Get all your wins in before the faq jacks up our points! Lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I love these beta rules coz it gives us more tactical flexibility... it’s almost aeldari. * wink Anyways I am thinking we benefit the most due to super flexible Veteran Squad builds and SIA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Honestly, the biggest issue was giving SIA to storm bolters. Should have never let that touch power armour vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think talks of this making DW op are a little unfounded. I don’t run odds, but if I’m using kraken rounds for range I’m not using hellfire for wounding on 2+, which till now has been the bread and butter. I think this just opens up even more potential options for us to use, which is always good. So far the past 2 months have been good to DeathWatch. Get all your wins in before the faq jacks up our points! Lol. Not specifically this in itself. SIA on SBs was the start. Then SS for 2 points and general reduction in overall points. And now this. In trying to boost SM, they've inadvertently made DW a powerhouse faction. This may force them to actually remove us from being directly linked to SM pts costs in the future though, which can be a good thing. Edit: In my opinion, they need to nerf SS up to 3-4 pts, and not let this bolter rule stick or at least change it a bit. Maybe only give the double tap to non-PA marines (terms, bikers, vehicles), or maybe make it -1 to hit if it's over half the rapid fire range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDreddKnight Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Try to find better opponents. That is my humble advice. What do you guys think is the optimal size for a bike squad ? I’d say spamming squads of 3 is my best (IMO). Since each Sargent can take a storm bolter. 8 shots at 30” ap-1 ... soooo good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I was thinking four for a bit more resilience but three are easier to hide. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Guess I'll stop stockpiling assault cannon Terminators and go all out with storm bolters :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Even with better offensive output, a marine is still a marine. It's a T4 3+ save (shield or not)! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353266-bolter-discipline-its-official/#findComment-5239424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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